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Trigger List - 6/21/2005 7:46:46 PM   
Maginot


Posts: 140
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		Posting this here because some of the newer players might not think to look in the War Room. Thanks to Tom and Joel for their work.

Trigger List

Germany:

Garrisons
East Prussia: Germany must maintain at least one garrison unit. If the garrison is not maintained, the Western and Central Soviet Blocs unfreeze.
West Poland: Germany must maintain at least three garrison units. If the garrison drops to two or lower, the Western and Central Soviet Blocs unfreeze.

Frozen Areas
Finland: Frozen until Germany captures Leningrad OR Soviets invade Finland OR Soviets maintain less then one garrison unit in Karelia.
Balkan States: Bulgaria, Rumania and Hungary are frozen until Germany attacks Yugoslavia or their territory is violated.
Vichy France: Remains frozen until the Allies invade one of the territories of Vichy France.


Japan:

Garrisons
Manchuria: Japan must maintain three garrison units. If the garrison drops below three, the Eastern and Central Soviet Blocs activate.

Frozen Areas
None


The Soviets:

Garrisons
Karelia: The Soviets must maintain at least one garrison unit in Karelia. If the garrison drops below one, Finland activates.

Frozen Areas
Western Soviet Bloc: If Germany invades Soviets OR the Axis powers violate East Prussia/West Poland garrison rules (see above) OR the axis invades Turkey/ Afghanistan/Northern Persia OR it is Winter 1943.
Eastern Soviet Bloc: If Japan invades the Soviets OR Germany surrenders OR Japan violates the Manchurian garrison OR it is Winter 1943.
Central Soviet Bloc: If either the Western or Eastern Soviet Block unfreezes (except due to an Axis failure to meet a garrison requirement, in which case a Soviet attack against either Germany or Japan will unfreeze this bloc, as will any other item that would normally unfreeze it).


Western Allies:

Garrisons to be maintained:
None

Territories that start frozen:
US and British Far East: If Japan or Germany violate any frozen territory (including frozen sea zones) OR Japan occupies a Chinese non-costal province and Russian province in Winter 1942 or later OR if the date is Winter 1943.


Co-Authors:
Tom O’Carrol
Maginot
with thanks to Joel

6/21/05


Enjoy!
Post #: 1
RE: Trigger List - 6/21/2005 7:53:12 PM   
vlale

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Add to list.

Japan.

Occupy a inland china province and attack Russia = US entry

Germany

Attack Turkey = Russian entry, western and central bloc unfreeze
Attack Persia = Russian entry, central bloc unfreeze

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by vlale -- 6/21/2005 7:56:31 PM >

(in reply to Maginot)
Post #: 2
RE: Trigger List - 6/21/2005 8:18:33 PM   
Maginot


Posts: 140
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thats all taken care of. Its written as in WHAT unfreezes them. Checking under what unfreezes the US, you see the inland/german thing. Checking under Russia is Persia, turkey, ect.

(in reply to vlale)
Post #: 3
RE: Trigger List - 6/21/2005 8:27:47 PM   
vlale

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		ok :-)

Good work Maginot

(in reply to Maginot)
Post #: 4
RE: Trigger List - 6/22/2005 12:47:16 AM   
veritech

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: humbold county california
Status: offline 		i dont if this should go on the list or if this is just a tactic, but the USSR can attack japanese forces in the chinese capital with air power to unlock their eastern squares.

(in reply to vlale)
Post #: 5
RE: Trigger List - 6/22/2005 2:05:13 AM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
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From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

OR the axis invades Turkey/ Afghanistan/Northern Persia


This neglects to mention that if any Allied Power invades any of those zones then its free game for the Axis too.

(in reply to veritech)
Post #: 6
RE: Trigger List - 6/22/2005 5:04:32 AM   
Maginot


Posts: 140
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		The only other nation I can see invading Persia, Afghanistan, or Turkey is Russia. Since these events unfreeze Russia in the first place, invading one of the neutrals (why someone who invade Afghanistan is beyond me) would have no unfreezing effects. Granted, the Western Allies COULD swing around and take Persia...

(in reply to JanSorensen)
Post #: 7
RE: Trigger List - 6/22/2005 10:47:27 AM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		The questions isnt if its wise - its which triggers are in the game.

The WA *can* attack Afghanistan (for whatever reason) and in doing so the Germans are free to attack Turkey for example without unfreezing Russisa.

I am wondering if there are more such subtle nuances that the manual neglects to mention (or that I am missing). Its entirely within reason to assume there are still more triggers - either as bugs or as unmentioned features - I definitely didnt personally know about the one Veritech mentions.

An updated manual (with an actually working index) would be most welcome - as several parts are now wrong or inadquate.

< Message edited by JanSorensen -- 6/22/2005 10:48:06 AM >

(in reply to Maginot)
Post #: 8
RE: Trigger List - 6/28/2005 12:57:15 PM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		Another addition to the list:

Territories that start frozen:
US and British Far East: If Japan or Germany violate any frozen territory (including frozen sea zones) OR Japan occupies a Chinese non-costal province and Russian province in Winter 1942 or later OR if the date is Winter 1943 (at the start at the WA turn) OR a UK unit attacks a Japanese territory or unit (for example from North Persia to Japanese controlled Kazakhstan)

(in reply to JanSorensen)
Post #: 9
RE: Trigger List - 6/28/2005 1:09:26 PM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		Another correction and addition:

Frozen Areas
Western Soviet Bloc: If Germany invades Soviets OR the Axis powers violate East Prussia/West Poland garrison rules (see above) OR the axis invades Turkey/ Afghanistan/Northern Persia OR it is Winter 1943.
Eastern Soviet Bloc: If Japan invades the Soviets OR Germany surrenders OR Japan violates the Manchurian garrison OR it is Winter 1943 (at the start of the Russian turn).

This allows the Germans a surprise winter 43 attack if they wish - so its of practicaly importence that the unfreezing doesnt happen at the start of winter 43 but not untill the Russian turn.

Eastern Soviet Bloc: If Japan invades the Soviets OR Germany surrenders OR Japan violates the Manchurian garrison OR it is Winter 1943.

This last part appears to be incorrect.


< Message edited by JanSorensen -- 6/28/2005 1:10:45 PM >

(in reply to JanSorensen)
Post #: 10
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 6:07:08 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maginot

The only other nation I can see invading Persia, Afghanistan, or Turkey is Russia. Since these events unfreeze Russia in the first place, invading one of the neutrals (why someone who invade Afghanistan is beyond me) would have no unfreezing effects. Granted, the Western Allies COULD swing around and take Persia...



Which they did. Gotta pump those supplies to Russia!!! Does the AI ever do this to help the Russian.


http://www.kkhec.ac.ir/Iran%20information/iran%20timeline%20up%20to%20revolution.htm
1941 -- In need of the Trans-Iranian railway to supply the Soviets with wartime materials, the Allies invaded and occupied Iran for the duration of the war.

The link doesn't say it but I'm pretty sure Russians took the north and the UK the south.

No railroad on my map?

(in reply to Maginot)
Post #: 11
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 6:16:20 PM   
Daykeras

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well, actually. The UK/USA took both parts of the country. Russia did not occupy any of Iran.

There were secondary reasons for Iran being invaded/occupied as well. A big one in hind sight is the fact that Iran is quite literally "The Land of the Aryans". I'd like to get that railroad in too, but I can live without it.

Anywho. The trigger list will need to be updated as of this next patch coming out.

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 12
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 6:31:02 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We wanted it to be harder (take longer) to lend lease through Persia then through convoys to Murmansk, thus, no railroad.

(in reply to Daykeras)
Post #: 13
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 6:40:26 PM   
Daykeras

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline 		Ah... Because of the speed that supplies can go across the ocean, right? Makes sense. Any news on other trigger changes coming up? Since this up coming patch is mostly for the internet game change I was wondering if any thought to the next patch has been given yet.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 14
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 6:57:25 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I listed the changes in the online patch in the TCP/IP update thread. No other changes are planned (only bug fixes) in future patches (at least not until we get a lot of feedback on the new changes).

(in reply to Daykeras)
Post #: 15
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 7:28:29 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daykeras

Well, actually. The UK/USA took both parts of the country. Russia did not occupy any of Iran.

There were secondary reasons for Iran being invaded/occupied as well. A big one in hind sight is the fact that Iran is quite literally "The Land of the Aryans". I'd like to get that railroad in too, but I can live without it.


According to my last link.

"1946 -- Under American pressure, the Soviet Union was forced to pull out of Iran's northwestern province. It was the first and only time that Stalin gave back a WWII occupied territory."

It's not entirely true I think stalin gave back parts of Manchuria to China.

When I read churchills memoirs I don't remember him ever mentioning that as a pretext for invasion. Course it's a big series that I haven't read in a few years. Though he liked to make things personal. The number one incident that comes to mind was bombing berlin when the russian ambassidor was in town. The Germans are trying to convince the russians to ally more closely with them because england is "almost" defeated and one of the russian diplomats ponders whether the Brits are in fallout shelters too.

Can you see hitler and the Ayatollah being buds?? There's a scary thought.

quote:


We wanted it to be harder (take longer) to lend lease through Persia then through convoys to Murmansk, thus, no railroad.

Makes sense

< Message edited by silodhlehan -- 10/28/2005 7:30:54 PM >

(in reply to Daykeras)
Post #: 16
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 7:37:04 PM   
Daykeras

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline 		Hmm. The way I remembered learning about occupation of Iran was Russia wasn't directly involved. Perhaps I forgot something. I've done it in the past.

Anywho, the mention of the Land of the Ayrans was a kind of "hind sight" look at why we'd go. We do that a lot. "Oh. We attacked Germany because of what they were doing to millions of people."

Obviously we were in there as a staging ground to send supplies to Russia and launch Air raids.

Making a new thread for the Iran discussion

< Message edited by Daykeras -- 10/28/2005 7:42:05 PM >

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 17
RE: Trigger List - 10/28/2005 7:42:54 PM   
toddtreadway

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 9/30/2003
Status: offline 		Deleted my own post and started a thread on this. Forgot it was in a sticky. Sorry.

(in reply to Daykeras)
Post #: 18
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