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A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 7:31:21 AM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline 		Nothing gameplay related here, just logistical things:

1. I play this game PBEM almost exclusively. That means I open and close the game A LOT. It is very annoying that each time I get a turn and want to play it, I have to start the game, hit escape three times, select Load Game, hit the check mark to show PBEM games, then load the game I want. It would be really great if there was a way to start the game that would take me straight to the load PBEM game screen, and skip over all the stuff before that.

2. You guys have got to get rid of the bit that tries to sneak in the download service whether you ask for it or not when you order the game. It is unethical, annoying, and I know three people who won't order a Matrix product because they got pissed off trying to make it go away. Seriously, if people want the service, they will select it. Whatever incremental profit you make by tricking a few people into paying for something they do not want isn't worth it.

3. It would be nice if activate leaders appeared on the map differently some how, so you could see what areas have leaders that can engage in an attack in.

Still working my way through my first PBEM game. Great potential here, IMO.
Post #: 1
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 7:54:50 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Number 3 is on our list for the first patch. Number 2 is something for Matrix (I don't even know what your talking about). As for number 1, I suggest you either rename the video folder in the /dat directory (of course this will keep you from being able to acces the tutorial videos) or just rename or get rid of the three intro movies from the /dat/video folder so you don't have to hit Esc three times.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 6/23/2008 7:55:41 AM >

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 2
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 7:57:38 AM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline 		Can't really address #1 b/c I haven't tried a pbem.  I've basically kept the game running nonstop for the past day or so.  Has a pretty small memory footprint for a game.  Can't just keep it running?

2) I'm only going to say that Matrix has in my opinion the best, least obtrusive download service I've come across.  You get a copy of the game, you can store it on any media you like, install it repeatedly without having to contact the mothership.  I also thought the extra couple dollars was worth it so that, if I do have some kind of loss on my system, I can get it back from findmyorder.com.

I am a little disappointed it costs money now.  I can still get WitP 4 years later.

3) I assume you mean leaders with initiative.  I agree completely.  I'd like a hotkey that shows regions with leaders that have initiative.

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 3
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 8:20:58 AM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline 		Crim, I am not arguing the utility of the download protection, although I agree it ought to be free, just the ethics of adding to to peoples cart without them asking for it. That just isn't cool - if I want to buy something, I will buy it. Don't slip it into my cart for me.

Could you imagine that at a real store? Some manager just casually tosses some item into your cart before you check out? Sure, you can remove it, but if you don't notice...

And no, I don't want to keep the game running all the time - although I like the idea of renaming the video folder, that is cool.

Ideally, 2by3 could steal some ideas from SSG for implementing PBEM functionality...

(in reply to Crimguy)
Post #: 4
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 9:01:36 AM   
GShock


Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
Status: offline 		Ah i understand the point but it's not from 2by3 or from any other DEV...it's about the publishers so this is stuff for Erik   (I agree with you of course)

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 5
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 9:25:29 AM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline 		Good point - this isn't really about this game per se, it just came up in regards to this one.



(in reply to GShock)
Post #: 6
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 9:51:14 AM   
Vorsteher


Posts: 251
Joined: 4/1/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Number 3 is on our list for the first patch. Number 2 is something for Matrix (I don't even know what your talking about). As for number 1, I suggest you either rename the video folder in the /dat directory (of course this will keep you from being able to acces the tutorial videos) or just rename or get rid of the three intro movies from the /dat/video folder so you don't have to hit Esc three times.

And number 4 is the game editor ?

V.

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 3:53:38 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut
2. You guys have got to get rid of the bit that tries to sneak in the download service whether you ask for it or not when you order the game. It is unethical, annoying, and I know three people who won't order a Matrix product because they got pissed off trying to make it go away. Seriously, if people want the service, they will select it. Whatever incremental profit you make by tricking a few people into paying for something they do not want isn't worth it.


We originally offered this free, but due to increasing costs that could not continue. However, frankly more customers were upset if it was not offered by default and they found out two years later they could not re-download their game, but could have if they'd known to add some extra widget to their cart.

It's clearly presented before checkout. All you need is a single click to remove it and we offer it because the vast majority of our customers have shown in the past that they prefer to have it in by default rather than have to hunt for it.

Finally, we make extremely little money from that. The vast, vast majority goes straight to Digital River to cover their costs.

I'm sorry this bothers you so much, but based on past experience we'd get a lot more complaints after the fact if we removed it.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 8
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 3:55:26 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy
I am a little disappointed it costs money now.  I can still get WitP 4 years later.


When we had to start charging for it (we really had no choice in this, it was either start offering it for a small fee or remove it alltogether) we made sure that all past customers/purchases remained "grandfathered in" under our old system.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Crimguy)
Post #: 9
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 4:08:49 PM   
GShock


Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
Status: offline 		I'm happy i never had such a problem but it is indeed a difficult choice for the publishers and u can only understand it if you get there in their shoes and have to tell NO to the guy who comes after 2 years and says Hey i lost my cd-key.

Probably, by making it so that the user has to deselect the option, it becomes evident if that happens it is because the user chose to and not because of Matrix games. Still...i don't understand, i generally burn the games along with the keys...i have dozens of PCs at hand and each has a dozen copies of all serials (it's the same file and the only place i haven't this file is on the cell phone lol). See...my HP had to be reformatted and all the serials were on one of the laptops

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 10
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 4:13:40 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock
Probably, by making it so that the user has to deselect the option, it becomes evident if that happens it is because the user chose to and not because of Matrix games. Still...i don't understand, i generally burn the games along with the keys...i have dozens of PCs at hand and each has a dozen copies of all serials (it's the same file and the only place i haven't this file is on the cell phone lol). See...my HP had to be reformatted and all the serials were on one of the laptops


That's what I do too - I would de-select it personally, but it was pretty clear based on feedback when we tried it otherwise that the current option is actually the best one for the majority of our customers.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to GShock)
Post #: 11
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 5:15:24 PM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

just the ethics of adding to to peoples cart without them asking for it. That just isn't cool - if I want to buy something, I will buy it. Don't slip it into my cart for me.



They did that? Hmmm, maybe they'll attach a copy of Safari for Windows next time too I agree it shouldn't be on by default. Misunderstood you.

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 12
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/23/2008 7:44:30 PM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline 		So you are seriously trying to convince me that most of your customers WANT you to put things in their cart without asking?

OK then....

(in reply to Crimguy)
Post #: 13
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 6:48:28 AM   
dthornburg

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/18/2004
Status: offline 		1) It would be cool if there was a way to set up your newly arrived units to auto-move to a specified area. A TC for example for militia units in their theater.

2) How about a way to completely get rid of just the opposition's cavalry raid warnings and misc turn reports.

3) Only show the cavalry combat options pop-up when you click on the combat icon on the screen, not just on mouse-over.

4) When you have a stack of like units that have different current movement values when you select the stack to move it it would be nice to have the computer auto-select the units that have the required movement points available to make the movement desired. I probably didn't do a good job explaining that one but it's a pain to search through a stack of units to find the one that you hadn't moved yet. I see this a lot when moving a CS into a sea area that already has a non-moved CS that I want to then move further down the coast.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 14
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 2:56:56 PM   
Javakamp


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/17/2004
From: Lakeland, FL.
Status: offline 		Great game guys.

One suggustion I have is that you add an estimate of Blockade effectivness to the mouseover popup of sea areas. This would make it easier to spot areas that could use more ships.

(in reply to dthornburg)
Post #: 15
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 3:57:33 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut
So you are seriously trying to convince me that most of your customers WANT you to put things in their cart without asking?
OK then....


What I'm saying is that most of our customer want to be able to re-download the game whenever they want. When we started having to charge for that and didn't include it in the cart by default, we got a lot more complaints than by putting it in and letting people take it out.


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 16
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 4:45:19 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Javakamp

Great game guys.

One suggustion I have is that you add an estimate of Blockade effectivness to the mouseover popup of sea areas. This would make it easier to spot areas that could use more ships.



You can always press the e key and watch the report on the blockade percentage from the last turn, that gives you an idea on how well you're doing.

_____________________________


GG's AWD, GG's WBTS, GG's WitE Beta Tester
Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

(in reply to Javakamp)
Post #: 17
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 5:14:43 PM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut
So you are seriously trying to convince me that most of your customers WANT you to put things in their cart without asking?
OK then....


What I'm saying is that most of our customer want to be able to re-download the game whenever they want.


Yeah, I don't doubt that, and that is really what this is about, I suspect. I still think placing things in people carts without their permission is unethical. I could not iamgine someone sitting in the checkout line at the grocery store dropping items in my cart and saying "Hey, we get complaints when we don't put things in people carts without asking them! Seriously!"

If you really think that people need to be aware that the $50 game they just bought won't be available to them to download in the future, just have something show up saying so, and pointing out the option of paying for the right to download the game they just bought. it is a subtle, but important difference, IMO.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 5:36:41 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Hey guys, I'm sure this was a simple mistake. Matrix is a company that prides itself on good service. Any mishap is quickly taken care of...


Jon

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 19
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 6:53:29 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Berkut,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut
Yeah, I don't doubt that, and that is really what this is about, I suspect. I still think placing things in people carts without their permission is unethical. I could not iamgine someone sitting in the checkout line at the grocery store dropping items in my cart and saying "Hey, we get complaints when we don't put things in people carts without asking them! Seriously!"

If you really think that people need to be aware that the $50 game they just bought won't be available to them to download in the future, just have something show up saying so, and pointing out the option of paying for the right to download the game they just bought. it is a subtle, but important difference, IMO.


We already tried it the other way, that was our first instinct of how to do it as well. We got a LOT of complaints (I'm not kidding) after the fact. There is nothing unethical about doing this when its clearly listed before checkout and a button is provided to remove it. Anything short of including it by default will probably lead to the same complaints we had before. We can agree to disagree on this, but if you want to continue the discussion please feel free to e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Berkut)
Post #: 20
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 7:21:53 PM   
GShock


Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
Status: offline 		The price of the item is apparent ictu oculi. You can read XX$ from 20 km away and if your checkbox signs XY$ it's got to have a reason and Erik has explained it (but the checkbox marks it too). Now, if one buys something without looking at what he's buying, then it's his problem...it's not that the thing is getting in your box by itself, it's always you who've got to select/deselect confirming the order and you do this in so many steps it's really hard not to notice.

Besides, if u lost your game, what would you think if the company didn't want to give it back to you with your original cd-key? I think it's a good compromise.

Someone might object other companies do not charge for this service...ok, how many servers, hosting how many mirrors * how many games simultaneously do these companies have?

And that's why they don't.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 21
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 9:50:19 PM   
Habbaku


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline 		I can understand why they might tack that optional service on to the bill without asking as a form of service to their customers or as a "reminder" to those that might not otherwise know about the extended-download option.

What I don't understand is why it's re-added to an order each time there is even a minor modification made to the transaction.  My purchase of WBTS saw that in spades.  I placed an order for the game, deleted the download-service charge and then modified what type of shipping I wanted for the game only to have the download-service re-added to my order.  Is it really necessary to have the system add it back after I've already "declined" the offer?

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Post #: 22
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 10:10:04 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Wow, it is so true. You can't please everybody all the time.
Maybe we should rename the topic, "Things i don't like in life when it comes to spending my money."
While we are at it, those who want to talk about GAME suggestions for improvment can gravitate to a new thread.

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“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
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Post #: 23
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 10:21:41 PM   
Habbaku


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it's true : some people like having things plied upon them without their asking.

_____________________________

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Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

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Post #: 24
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 10:38:11 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Habbaku,

Just so its clear. My post was in response to the name of the topic, which is clearly ambiguous. Coming to the thread i expect discussion about game improvments. Instead its just a rant about marketing decisions.

But hey, if the shoe fits, wear it. 


_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
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Post #: 25
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 10:39:40 PM   
Habbaku


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline 		I would say that, quite clearly, points 1 and 3 of the opening poster are decidedly not marketing decisions.

_____________________________

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Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

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Post #: 26
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 10:41:58 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Quite clearly Point 2 is the main concern of this thread. As your own post, Habbaku, can attest to.


_____________________________


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Post #: 27
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/24/2008 11:53:39 PM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Quite clearly Point 2 is the main concern of this thread. As your own post, Habbaku, can attest to.



Apparently it is YOUR main concern as well, since it is all you feel like talking about.

Funny that.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 28
RE: A couple suggestions for improvement - 6/25/2008 12:05:02 AM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Berkut,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut
Yeah, I don't doubt that, and that is really what this is about, I suspect. I still think placing things in people carts without their permission is unethical. I could not iamgine someone sitting in the checkout line at the grocery store dropping items in my cart and saying "Hey, we get complaints when we don't put things in people carts without asking them! Seriously!"

If you really think that people need to be aware that the $50 game they just bought won't be available to them to download in the future, just have something show up saying so, and pointing out the option of paying for the right to download the game they just bought. it is a subtle, but important difference, IMO.


We already tried it the other way, that was our first instinct of how to do it as well. We got a LOT of complaints (I'm not kidding) after the fact. There is nothing unethical about doing this when its clearly listed before checkout and a button is provided to remove it. Anything short of including it by default will probably lead to the same complaints we had before. We can agree to disagree on this, but if you want to continue the discussion please feel free to e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik


I largely felt like Berkut but understand your point Erik.
However if the ext D/L is the "standard" option, you should indicate the price INCLUDING this ext D/L cost when giving the game price in the previous screen (where you put the game in your basket) !
Personnally I've had no problem with it except the first time I saw it , but it is not really normal to click on a 30 EUR game and have a bill at 33 when checking out...

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 29
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