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Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane!

 
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Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 12:09:22 PM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
Status: offline 		Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!!
It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot.
Post #: 1
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 12:31:14 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 2
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 4:51:39 PM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

Agreed but righr now there is no escort. There hit rate is amazing though.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 3
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 4:52:51 PM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

Are Donries the German company?

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 4
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 4:56:48 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.


Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes?

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 5
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 5:01:53 PM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.


Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes?

Couls have been bought prewar

< Message edited by jagsdomain -- 9/21/2019 5:02:20 PM >

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 6
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 5:03:09 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.


Did not know that, maybe classify them as floatplanes?

Floatplanes usually refers to aircraft with "floats" (pontoons). Flying boats do their floating on their hulls, with perhaps a couple of small floats on their outer wings to keep those out of the water. Grouped together, planes that land on or take off from water are "seaplanes".

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 7
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 5:57:31 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 6:09:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group.

IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 9
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 6:16:07 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Ok. I only have a game up to April 42 to check, i have 14 Mavis losses to combat and no kills. i guess it is possible. I also have more than 300 combat kills of my level bombers and also no kills, that instead smells fishy.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 6:20:28 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

Are Donries the German company?

Dornier, yes. The Dutch actually participated in the building of this type and were crucial in its development. The Dutch in the East Indies had them modified with American radial engines, more powerful than the original ones which gave them excellent performance. They did the same with the old Fokker T.IV twin-engine floatplanes which were designed to carry torpedoes, too. I do not think this is catered for in the game.

The Dutch also did an improvement job on the original Martin B-10 ordered by them as the Martin 139 WH (Wright, Holland). You can read the whole story here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4691283&mpage=1&key=�

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 9/21/2019 6:31:10 PM >

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 11
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 10:46:37 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		BB - some flying boats had defense to the rear. The Do 24 was one and Mavis had a 20mm in the tail. PBYs no, I'm guessing Emily yes. Of course the IJN planes were flying gas cans so easy to light up. Generally speaking I think more fighters should get damaged/destroyed attacking bombers. The mighty B-17 and to a lesser extent the B-24 are good at it, B-25s are OK. But IRL SBDs and others did a better job than the game seems to reflect IMO.
I did once have one of those single engine Dutch recon birds get a kill once, which shocked me.

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 12
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/21/2019 11:25:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Don't want to rain on you parade, but all flying boats (Catalinas, Dorniers, Mavis) are bugged - they never return fire while attacked by fighters. Standard fighters like Wildcats or Zeroes mince-meat them all the time. Use them away from enemy CAP.

Are Donries the German company?

Dornier, yes. The Dutch actually participated in the building of this type and were crucial in its development. The Dutch in the East Indies had them modified with American radial engines, more powerful than the original ones which gave them excellent performance. They did the same with the old Fokker T.IV twin-engine floatplanes which were designed to carry torpedoes, too. I do not think this is catered for in the game.

The Dutch also did an improvement job on the original Martin B-10 ordered by them as the Martin 139 WH (Wright, Holland). You can read the whole story here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4691283&mpage=1&key=�

Fred


When I click on the link, I get this thread.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 13
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 12:02:29 AM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group.

IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking.

What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was
KB.
Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history



< Message edited by jagsdomain -- 9/22/2019 12:06:38 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 12:03:28 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		At least that wasn't just me then.

I did pull up an old game in May 1945 - not a single kill by an SBD.
A Privateer had one though. None by any of the Allied flying boats.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 12:37:09 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group.

IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking.

What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was
KB.
Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history




1942, after the Darwin raid. The Hermes was sunk as were a few other ships.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 16
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 1:22:50 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		CA Dorsetshire of Bismarck fame went down as well....maybe another CA too - cannot remember. And I want to say something like 30 merchies. I think the KB was down one CV (maybe Kaga) for maint reasons.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 2:13:24 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I mean to make them reply to fighter fire, one problem at least is they they would be able to be put cruiser, battleships.

I disagree with the original assertion that patrol planes never shoot back because a few players have occasionally shot down a fighter with a patrol aircraft. It is very unlikely because patrol aircraft are not designed to go into contested airspace so their defensive armament is weak and badly placed (nothing protecting the rear). Usually the patrol aircraft have no problems unless they get close to an enemy carrier group.

IOW, I don't think any adjustment in aircraft type is required. Patrol aircraft should be in jeopardy if they spot enemy carriers - that is what happened to Canadian Sqn. Ldr. (later Air Commodore) Birchall whose PBY spotted KB approaching Colombo and radioed in the alarm in time to save most of the ships there. He dodged some CAP (in clouds) before he spotted KB, but was shot down and captured by the Japanese. He spent over three years in POW camps. When I met him in 1980 he still suffered from beri-beri and was in pain walking.

What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was
KB.
Hope the conversation was amazing. Its great to be able to meet the people that made history




1942, after the Darwin raid. The Hermes was sunk as were a few other ships.

Yes, the aim was to finish off the British fleet in the area, especially the carriers and R class BBs. They got CAs Cornwall and Dorsetshire IIRC. But Colombo itself was alerted and bristling with fighters so KB did not strike it AFAIK.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 7:16:29 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 3/16/2012
From: Not all there
Status: offline 		Colombo had around 60 RAF and FAA fighters, radar and a passable quantity of AA for that time but the Japanese did hit it with their opening strike of the campaign on April 5th. The British lost 25 of their defending fighters and while accounts vary on the Japanese losses, it was likely only 7 aircraft (1 Zero and 6 Vals) failed to make it back from the strike. The majority of the 91 Japanese bombers appear to have gone after the port facilities and nearby Ratmalana airfield, the rest going after the few ships still in harbor. The destroyer HMS Tenedos and the large merchant cruiser HMS Hector were sunk during the Colombo raid, two other ships were damaged.

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This was the only sig line I could think of.

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RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 7:26:07 AM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

When I click on the link, I get this thread.


Sorry:

https://thejavagoldblog.wordpress.com/background-info-book-1/airplanes-2/the-dornier-do-24k/

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 20
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 7:29:29 AM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain
What year? I was not aware of KB going into Indian Ocean. I know there was a raid on Madagascar but I do not think it was KB.


No, but Japanese submarines did have some successes around Madagascar.

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 21
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 9:49:01 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!!
It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot.

Wait until you see your starting Kingfishers on Naval attack at 1000 ft

(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 22
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 4:40:40 PM   
jagsdomain

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/4/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

Yes there small convoys but though Dutch DO(something) are amazing at hitting ships. Place them at 100 feet and you get hits!!!!
It makes up for your subs missing eberyshot when IJN subs hit every shot.

Wait until you see your starting Kingfishers on Naval attack at 1000 ft

They could barly fly much less stack somthing lol

< Message edited by jagsdomain -- 9/22/2019 6:14:48 PM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 23
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/22/2019 10:52:20 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Most of these are claims made by PB4Ys (-1,-2) but all patrol type planes making a claim are included. Table 2 shows the USN/USMC a/c type making the claim. Flying boats made a total of 43 claims.

http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories/doc/navy.and.marine.corps.patrol.type.aircraft.pdf

< Message edited by spence -- 9/22/2019 11:09:30 PM >

(in reply to jagsdomain)
Post #: 24
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/23/2019 6:53:12 AM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline
Interesting link. Thanks for posting!

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 25
RE: Dutch search plane DO is the best anti ship plane! - 9/23/2019 1:42:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Many years ago - 8 or 9? - there was a Forumite who got fixated on the anti-ship capabilities of the Emily. He couldn't let it go. He obsessed about it. I can't recall who it was, but it became a monomania.

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 26
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