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Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design >> Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help

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Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 8:31:49 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

I have noticed in my scenario editor that there are unit skeletons (i.e., USA Armored Division, etc) that aren't really units that are IN the game but used to base game units off of (I guess).

Anyways, I've noticed that all of them (Allied and Japanese) have leaders assigned to them as can be seen in the picture below.

My question is: if I clear the leader out to none will that a) free up the assigned leader to the skeleton b) just assign a random leader to the non-unit skeleton or c) something else? Would it be better to create a DUMMY leader to assign to all of the skeleton units as a place holder or what?

Thanks.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

Post #: 1

RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 8:58:46 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Hmm, never noticed that... Anyway, as you correctly surmise, those are the formations that the actual land combat units are based on. You should be able to remove the leader with no trouble.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to dereck)

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RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 9:04:37 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

"Should" doesn't necesarily mean "can" with this game from what I've found out. I'm just worried that this game's code tries to put leaders in every empty leader slot (including blank slots).

Makes me wonder if I should create a dummy leader and put him in every skeleton and blank slot in my database to prevent the game from putting leaders there. *wonders if that is where Halsey has gone too* Also, maybe put 9999 as the delay in all blank slots?

I've also noticed that the skeleton for the Chinese Tank Regiment had regular support instead of motorized support like the other armored skeletons/units I've run across.

< Message edited by dereck -- 12/28/2005 9:05:07 PM >

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 9:24:04 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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You'll notice that the OOB units aren't actually deployed anywhere on the map, so the game's automatic leader assignment isn't even going to get to them. I think you'll be okay.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 4

RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 9:29:20 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You'll notice that the OOB units aren't actually deployed anywhere on the map, so the game's automatic leader assignment isn't even going to get to them. I think you'll be okay.

I found a empty leader slot and I'm going to use that leader number for all skeletons and blank locations (and maybe ships and airgroup slots too) along with putting a delay of 9999 for all empty slots.

I don't trust this database and code to do "the right thing" because it's basically a black box. If there's code in the program to add a VBF squadron (with a delay of 9999 by the way) onto an aircraft carrier after a certain date I'm going to do everything I can to prevent stuff I don't want to happen from happening.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 5

RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 10:01:21 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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Hey, after the experiences you've had, I can't say that I blame you...

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 6

RE: Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/28/2005 10:06:50 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

I don't think it would hurt doing what I've mentioned above and, who knows, it may even help.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 7

RE: ANOTHER Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/29/2005 3:18:28 AM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

I've been putting a dummy leader in and setting the delay to 9999 for all empty and text slots for ships, air groups and locations.

I've run into a few things which I'm kind of puzzled about how to proceed:

1. In locations there's a number of items from 1940 through 1984 which say "Do Not Used-Reserved". Would I run into problems by putting the dummy commander and delay of 9999 into those slots too?

2. For actual bases that are listed under locations I'm not sure what would happen if I put a dummy leader in those locations and/or set the delay to 9999. Anybody know?

Thanks

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 8

RE: ANOTHER Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/29/2005 10:57:36 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

In general, setting the delay to 9999 and the leader to 0 (none) will not generate a leader for ships, groups or LCUs in the game.

Usually, units (including reinforcements) with a random leader are generated at the time a new scenario is started. After that, random leaders are only created for fragments and splits.

Since the leaders are assigned at the start when the old leader bug struck, it could have wrecked any leader including those who had not yet shown up on a ship/LCU/group.
So it looked like you were continually getting hit by bug, when it could have hit earlier and caused the errors.

I have verified that this combination (delay = 9999 and leader = 0) does not make a leader in v1.60. Should be same in later versions.

The major waste of the leader slots is units which have a non-zero leader number and a delay of 9999. The leader is assigned to the never-arriving unit and is one less available for real use.

OOB templates should have no leader. This was changed in official scenarios around about version 1.4 (IIRC), thanks to errors reported by "my checker".[light pat on back]

Michael

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 9

RE: ANOTHER Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/29/2005 4:57:17 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

** still confused **

My questions in the previous post weren't answered I don't think.

quote:

A. For actual bases that are listed under locations I'm not sure what would happen if I put a dummy leader in those locations and/or set the delay to 9999. Anybody know?

B. In locations there's a number of items from 1940 through 1984 which say "Do Not Used-Reserved". Would I run into problems by putting the dummy commander and delay of 9999 into those slots too?

See the attached picture. For A would I cause any problems putting my dummy leader in for the leader of bases? For B would I cause any problems putting my dummy leader in as the leader and setting the delay to 9999?

I've done what picture "B" shows for ALL empty slots and text slots under ships, air groups and locations to ensure that no leader somehow gets assigned to empty or text slots but can't figure out what to do for the two above situations.

I should also note that when I start my newest scenario I'm going to be doing so under version 1.3 because I'm not starting ANY new games under 1.795 since that version seems to lose leaders worse than anything else (see Tom Hunter's posts). From personal experience, until I switched to 1.795 (because of the pilot replacement bug) I hadn't lost a single leader but since I've hemorraghed leaders.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 10

RE: ANOTHER Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help - 12/30/2005 11:55:47 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

A. For actual bases that are listed under locations I'm not sure what would happen if I put a dummy leader in those locations and/or set the delay to 9999. Anybody know?

As a base does not need a leader as such, it does not matter setting it.
If you set the base delay to 9999, then the base icon will not show up on the map. However, the program still thinks it is there unless you set the hex location to (0,0).

quote:

B. In locations there's a number of items from 1940 through 1984 which say "Do Not Used-Reserved". Would I run into problems by putting the dummy commander and delay of 9999 into those slots too?

Setting delay to 9999 means don't use this unit.

In that case, I would strongly suggest that you DON'T set delay to 9999 on the 1940-84 slots as this may disable the Militia (Indo-China and Japanese) units that the game generates.

Michael

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 11

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design >> Unit Skeleton Leader Question - Please Help

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