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Shokaku at Santa Cruz

 
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Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 3:39:06 PM   
Miller


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Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Is it true she took 6 1000lb bomb hits during this battle? If so maybe some IJN damage control parties and ships were better organised and protected than previously thought?
Post #: 1
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:02:53 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Or maybe they were REALLY, REALLY lucky...

EDIT: The sources I could find mention 4-6 bomb hits, of unknown weight. Could be 500-pounders, could be 1000-pounders...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 8/9/2007 4:04:45 PM >

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:19:13 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down.

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:45:10 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		I think Shokaku class performed better in most senses as a ship compared to other IJN CV class

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:48:40 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down.


It was really bad luck for Japanese you know...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 5
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:50:13 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down.


It was really bad luck for Japanese you know...


Leo "Apollo11"


It also kind of sucked that the flight deck was full of fueled and loaded planes, along with a bunch of bombs laying around (when the TBs were reloaded with torpedoes).

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:53:42 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down.


It was really bad luck for Japanese you know...


It also kind of sucked that the flight deck was full of fueled and loaded planes, along with a bunch of bombs laying around (when the TBs were reloaded with torpedoes).


I think you mean hangar deck - the flight decks of all 4 Japanese carriers at Midway were empty (theye were only doing CAP rotations)...


Leo "Apollo11"

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A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 7
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 4:59:10 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		You're right, Leo.  I stand corrected.

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 5:11:12 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		The enclosed hangar decks of the IJN CVs were a tremendous liability according to "Shattered Sword".  The Shokakus did seem to be more able to sustain damage than the other carriers though.

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Post #: 9
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 5:23:17 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I think crew experience and "The Darwinian School of Carrier Operations" (with campuses at Coral Sea and Midway), probably contributed as well.

-F-

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/9/2007 6:20:02 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Is it true she took 6 1000lb bomb hits during this battle? If so maybe some IJN damage control parties and ships were better organised and protected than previously thought?



The Shokaku's were the newest and best of the Japanese pre-War CV's, designed after they had had some actual experiance in carrier operations. It stands to reason you can assume that their designs were more advanced and better laid out than their predecessors. Also, a great deal depends on exactly WHERE the bombs hit, and how far and into what spaces the penetrated before detonating. Given the way CV's are built, a bomb could hit the flght deck, penetrate it, and come out OUTSIDE the ships hull. Also what type of bombs and fuzes will make a lot of difference. How far did the bombs penetrate? You can blow the flight deck completely off a CV and not damage hull or machinery integrity unless you start massive fires. You really need a lot more detail to figure out what happened here.

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Post #: 11
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 1:47:21 AM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		If the damage does not penetrate into the vitals, the only realistic hope for destroying the carrier is to start a fire. The bombs, I presume, were high-explosive without especially long delays, so they did their job of wrecking the target as an aviation platform. Since Shokaku had no planes aboard and all her aviation systems were "offline," she was not especially combustible.
In her famous episode, Illustrious was hit by AP bombs, but the fuze delays did not allow a very deep penetration. Her famous flight deck armor did her no good whatsoever, but the armored hangar deck may have been important in localizing damage.

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Post #: 12
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 2:54:49 AM   
MkXIV


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From: North Georgia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Or maybe they were REALLY, REALLY lucky...

EDIT: The sources I could find mention 4-6 bomb hits, of unknown weight. Could be 500-pounders, could be 1000-pounders...


I would have to agree with T, pretty good chance they were not all half tonners.

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 3:21:24 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Like Tiornu noted, bomb types and fuze settings would also play a huge part, along with the lack of combustibles on board.

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Post #: 14
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 3:25:50 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		From the action reports from Enterprise, she dropped an equal number of 500# and 1000# bombs during the action at Santa Cruz. I just breeze thru, it might be that it was the Hornet's VS/VBs that hit Shok. But Ent dropped equal numbes of 500# and 1000# bombs.

So excellent reading...
Enterprise logs from just about every action.

-F-

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Post #: 15
RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 3:30:30 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Wow! Cool site, Feinder... Thanks for posting the link!

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RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz - 8/10/2007 6:17:39 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I think crew experience and "The Darwinian School of Carrier Operations" (with campuses at Coral Sea and Midway), probably contributed as well.

-F-

I'm gonna save that...

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Post #: 17
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