Siberian transfer

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> Siberian transfer

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Siberian transfer - 3/2/2009 6:22:42 PM

Lebatron

Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
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I was wondering with all the new modding possibilities if there was a way to add the Siberian transfer as an event? At first glance I would say not. I think the Russian units in Siberia should be locked in place until this event triggers. Triggers could be the obvious like Japan attacking the US, etc. I see talk of Finland but that seems like a much smaller issue to me than getting a more realistic Siberian transfer.

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Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

Post #: 1

RE: Siberian transfer - 3/3/2009 9:31:44 PM

Lebatron

Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
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I'll elaborate further why I'd like to see this be possible because it's effect on the game may not be immediately apparent. As some would know it's a bit easy for Japan to overun the Russians. A simply fix could be to make the Russian garrison there larger but then you run into the problem of them just moving these forces to the German front as soon as they can. The result would upset the initial balance. On the other hand if the Axis plan had been to double team Russia then the Siberian garrison boost would help to balance things. But once it's apparent that this is not the Axis strategy then these extra troops really mess up the balance unless they could not be moved out of Siberia for a while. See where I'm going with this? If this was possible thru modding I would probably lock down all Russian forces in Siberia and only allow the Siberian transfer after Japan attacks the US. And then only some of them as it should be required to maintain some form of a garrison there. Afterall, Japan has to maintain 3 in Manchuria. Japan and Russia did not have a close relationship like the US and Canada so it makes no sense that Russia would leave no garrison behind. But that does happen now because players know that once Japan has got its hands full with the US they are unlikely to attack Russia. That's metagaming. In reality a garrison should remain. It does not have to be strong but should at least exist. Basically what I'd like to be able to mod is...

1. Be able to create a forced garrison in any territory. Troops present at start of scenario can't be moved out below a certain number. Example: 3 inf and 3 mil are in Vlad at start of scenario. I set the minimum garrison in Vlad to 3. That means 3 out of the 6 could move out but no more. Exchanges are possible, but in order to move anything out at least 4 units would have to be present in this case to allow a swap before dropping back to 3.

2. Create another command that works in concert with the above. This one locks all troops in a territory until certain events take place. Examples of events could be Japan is now hostile to US, or could be something like control of both Smolensk and Kursk now in German hands.

With moddable event commands like these I could create an event(s) that only releases the Siberian troops after certain events have taken place. And then with the first command I listed I could limit just how much is allowed to move toward Moscow thus forcing at least some kind of garrison in the east.

I think this is a nice way to bolster the strenght of the Russins in the east without upsetting the balance in the west.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to Lebatron)

Post #: 2

RE: Siberian transfer - 3/4/2009 7:49:49 AM

Lucky1

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Sounds interesting to me. I find that Russia cannot resist a concerted German/Japanese attack (say, beginning in spring 1941).....

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Post #: 3

RE: Siberian transfer - 3/8/2009 8:21:55 AM

WanderingHead

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Two things occur to me that are possible with the upcoming release.

1) if the Japanese attack Russia, a political event can create some additional Russian units in Siberia. Too late to defend Irkutsk, but it would give Russia a defensive boost for the second turn of the Japanese advance (and notably, since it would be created at the beginning of the season it could NOT be used against Germany for the second turn of their advance ... it could not be redeployed until after the German and Japanese turns).

2) I have added the ability to create garrisons in the data files, and the failure to maintain a garrison can impact WR. For example, the German W Poland garrison is now in the data files instead of hard coded. One can make the garrison a fixed size, or increasing/decreasing per turn, or proportional to the enemy's forces across the frontier. So, the Russian could have a garrison requirement proportional to Japanese units in Manchuria and suffer a WR penalty if the garrison is not met.

The drawback of #2 as relates to your idea is that it cannot be coupled with whether the USA is at war or not. However, maybe that is not so bad (nor unrealistic), since war with the USA means it is harder for Japan to maintain a large garrison. But I think the details would still need work.

In the upcoming Global Glory, the USA response to Japan invading Russia includes some increased supplies in the USA for lend lease. Sort of an early Congressional response to help Russia. But I do like the garrison idea. It could be incorporated if people liked it.

< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 3/8/2009 8:35:49 AM >

(in reply to Lucky1)

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RE: Siberian transfer - 4/2/2009 10:45:19 PM

Lebatron

Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline

Brian,

In my testing, I avoided your first suggestion on the grounds that I don't care for events that just create free stuff for the major powers. In the case of new units, I feel that they should have been built using available production or been there from the start. When they are present from the start they impact tech costs, when created out of thin air they don't. So I choose a method more similar to your second suggestion. The only problem however is that the Russian AI ignores the garrison requirement and gets hammered by the WR penalty I put in to discourage moving out of Siberia early. Of course UV3.0 is meant for PBEM but it would have been nice to just have it work as well with the AI on.

In summary I added 5 extra infantry to Siberia split between Vladivostok and Irkutsk. Each area has to maintain a garrison of 5 each or suffer a 5 point WR penalty per unit shortage, then once the Siberian event goes off this garrison is reduced to 3 each. Thus freeing up 4 units. But the good stuff can be exchanged for militia once this event goes off, so in essence it's a bit better than just freeing up 4 units as it appears at first glance. For now, I also went with an event date of Wi43. While the real Siberian transfer happened late 41, if I recall correctly, it won't work well in AWD to allow it to happen this early. To give the Russians 5 extra infantry this early would upset game balance to much. The purpose of these new units is to help against the double team not to help out on the German front in the early game. So I pushed the event back to 43 so that the Germans have a chance to reach their high water mark first before these units show up. The Axis should have hit their maximum VP by then, so these units can show up without upsetting game balance. In fact, having these extra infantry show up on the German front in 43 helps the Allied late game which in my opinion is to weak right now. This and other changes I have made to make the Allied late game much stronger.

At first I was thinking of having this event trigger after Japan attacks the US, but decided, as I explained above, that having this event happen in say Wi42 would be to early. Even though you said this event can't be tied to whether the USA is at war or not, I do believe with prerequisites such as control of Luzon or something in Jap hands would mimic it well enough. In essence, the player would not be able to tell the difference. But it's a moot point anyway.

So in theory I got a pretty good imitation of a Siberian transfer going with whats already present in the data files but with one little problem. The exclusion for militia doesn't want to work. In my tests, militia seem to satisfy the original garrison of 5. But that's not what I want obliviously. Once the garrison reduces to 3, then I allow militia to satisfy the requirement but not before. I'll email you the details.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to WanderingHead)

Post #: 5