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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Calculation of angles Page: [1]
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Calculation of angles - 6/9/2000 10:10:00 PM   
Panther

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 4/19/2000
From: Dover,NH,USA
Status: offline 		Just wondering. Do you guys use multiple planar vector analysis to determine the angles of impact or do you use predetermined tables. Panther

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- 6/9/2000 11:09:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		A man after my own heart :-) Sort of in between. The game assumes that all the hexes are parallel to the "flat earth" of the game board. That reduces the degrees of freedom and since the hexes don't "tip" even on slopes, it is all the info the game gives you anyway. Then we just use trigonometry to take the vertical slope ange of the armor (randomized a bit and with the up or down angle from elevation added or subtracted) and the horizontal target angle from the target to shooter with a bigger random error (to get around the problem of things always assumed to be in the center of a hex) for angle determination at teh moment a "shot" is taken. The "geometric" thickness based on this is: Geo Armor=Base Armor*(SQRT(1/(COS(hor angle)^2)+1/(COS(ver angle)^2)-1)) This is a bit more accurate than the: Cos(hor armor)*COS (ver armor) that period conversion tables (in days before calculators:-) often used. The "effective angle" would be approx: ARCCOS(Base Armor/Geo Armor) Ballistic effectiveness gets more complicated, playing with the powers you raise the COS functions to based on T/D. That does come from a look up table based on warhead size. Any ideas for improvement are welcome :-)

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- 6/9/2000 11:34:00 PM   
Panther

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 4/19/2000
From: Dover,NH,USA
Status: offline 		Let me digest this a little bit. What I mean is re write on plain paper. I will compare that to my notes on vectors and will reply to you if you want me to. I'am not sure what your email address is. The idea that I have is to apply this to movement calculations. Math does not lie. Panther

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Post #: 3
- 6/9/2000 11:58:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		I'll be glad to look at it! Unfortuantely teh gmae doesn't store a motion vector fo a unit anywhere, so there may not be a way to do anything vector based. Doesn't mean it might not be useful for "future efforts" though :-) Hit the little smiley face letter icon above a post and the posters profile will come up including an email, if they included it in their profile or: paulv@matrixgames.com

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Post #: 4
- 6/27/2000 10:37:00 AM   
O de B

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: France, Paris
Status: offline 		well, time has passed since i saw this post for the first time I tried to look at the formula and tried to retrieve it on my own with geometry, but i always end up to the geo=base/(cos(ver)*cos(hor))... Guess i miss something or didn't understand well... Paul, is the formula you give with the sqrt more accurate for calculation by a computer or for modelling the impact ?

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Post #: 5
- 6/27/2000 9:42:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		I don't have the derivation handy - I will send it to you if you want when I get back.

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Post #: 6
- 6/27/2000 9:38:00 PM   
Panther

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 4/19/2000
From: Dover,NH,USA
Status: offline 		If you want can you send me a copy of this as well Paul. This is somewhat of interest to me. Panther

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Post #: 7
- 6/28/2000 10:53:00 AM   
Anthony_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Status: offline 		When I try it ( again with fairly basic trig) - I get Geo = Base/cos(vert + horz). In the case of small horizontal angles this reduces to Geo = Base/(cos(vert)*cos(horz)) - so I can see why they used this in WWII. Paul can you send me a copy of the derviation as well ? anthonyu@telstra.com

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Post #: 8
- 6/28/2000 7:19:00 PM   
O de B

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: France, Paris
Status: offline 		Well, i think i don't find the same result because of statement of angles. I take for vertical the angle between the slope of the plate and the vertical line, and for horizontal the angle between the "horizontal perpendicular" to the plate and the horizontal line between the gun and the plate. What i mean by "horizontal perpendicular" is a horizontal line perpendicular to the plate . I assume gun & target to be at the same elevation. I think if it is not the case, you have to substract the relevant angle but maybe it's where i'm wrong. I'm not sure i'm clear, let's hope With this statement, if i take anthony's formula with Pi/4 and Pi/4 (eg a tank firing at 45 deg. laterally to a plate sloped to 45 deg) i got geo = base/cos(Pi/2)=infinite so obviously we didn't define vert & hor in the same way ? The other formulas give geo = base*sqrt(2)*sqrt(2) = 2*base geo = base*(sqrt(2+2-1)) = sqrt(3)*base = 1.732*base Well, i don't think this really matters for playability of the game of course, and neither want to spoil Paul's time, but i'd really like to know where i'm wrong... BTW my email is olivier@coli.polytechnique.fr, so if you find the derivation back Paul i'm interested

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