Feinder
Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
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Thanks for the quick reply. I think what you said about CV coordination explains an earlier question I had about CV airstikes not having escorts in the first wave.
I read all the exerts from the manual you referenced. I guess I didn't phrase the question right. Section 6.1.4.2 states that TFs with more than 15 ships face "diminishing returns in effectiveness." You did a good job in explaining what this means in AA, and I guess the same thing applies to surface combat (15 ships will fire normally, but the rest over 15 may not fire as fully as they would have, right?).
Actually, I have found that smaller is better for surface combat TFs, usually around 6 - 10 ships. I believe there is some sort of "battle line" routine in the naval combat code, that DOES exclude excessive ships. If I may say so, surface combat is one thing I'm "better than the average bear" at. From observation, if you pack 25 ships into your surface combat TF, it's is EXTREMELY unlikely that all 25 will participate. However, if you limit it to about 6 - 12, it's likely that all of your ships will participate. The other wrinkle is that, "a ship fired upon, will usually fire back". So having smaller numbers of ships in your TF (that can take the punishment), works to your advantage as long as you have ammo (and boy it's annoying when that happens when you're clobbering 'em). So if he has 25 ships, and you have 10, likely only 10 - 12 of his will actually fire. But in your case, the volume of fire from you comparitively fewer ships will be much greater. You're accomplishing more with less, if that makes sense.
Only AA and surface combat are affected; not ASW, bombard, or CV airstrikes, right?
Again, the current production code does NOT limit the number of attacking ships in an ASW TF, so no, there is no diminishing return for them. With bombardment TFs, the more the merrier. Just don't forget that your BBs run out of ammo real quick. CV TFs, again, having lots of ships has no effect on the STRIKES, it just means you get a diminished return from your AAA as number of ships is greater than 15.
Which reminds me: More than one sub in a TF reduces the effectiveness of the sub TF, right? But what if 2 or more sub TFs of one sub each are in the same hex? Will that reduce effectiveness?
There's back-n-forth on this. As I recall, each sub in the TF has a chance for a shot, until a sub takes a shot. So if you've got 10 subs in a TF, you've got 10 chances for a shot, but once a sub shoots (say, #4), the other 6 are ignored. However, an ASW TF has the chance to attack ever sub in the hex. So more subs in the hex, means more chances to kill more subs. However, the manual does explicty state that subs are better left alone. Frankly, what I do is, send a TF of 6 - 8 subs to the station, then split 'em up into the zone.
And you mentioned that a cap on ASW is in the works. Is that historical or realistic? It seems to be giving the Allies a significant advantage because their ASW is much more effective.
ASW TFs historically had about 8 - 12 ships in them for Allies. I have no idea how Japan handled it.
-F-
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