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MWiF Map Review - India & Burma

 
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MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/25/2006 6:09:31 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Hello,

Here is what India & Burma are looking in MWiF.
It seems to me that it is pretty ok, it is accurate toward the WiF FE map.
Do you see something wrong ?
(This is a 35% size map, so texts are much unreadable, if you want close-ups on some areas, just ask)

Cheers !
Patrice




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RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/25/2006 10:03:26 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		All I can say is I feel sorry for the CW player who has to defend India against a determined Japanese attack at this map scale. Although, come to think of it, it's also easier to cut Japanese armies that over-extend themselves out of supply, so that makes up for the better maneuverability.

If I recall, almost every clear hex in India on the WiF:FE map has a city in it. Now there's lots of good tank country.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

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Post #: 2
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/25/2006 10:27:03 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

All I can say is I feel sorry for the CW player who has to defend India against a determined Japanese attack at this map scale. Although, come to think of it, it's also easier to cut Japanese armies that over-extend themselves out of supply, so that makes up for the better maneuverability.

If I recall, almost every clear hex in India on the WiF:FE map has a city in it. Now there's lots of good tank country.

But most of it is laced with rivers.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 3
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/26/2006 11:59:56 PM   
Incy

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2003
Status: offline 		Is Bombay attackable from only 1 hex? Not so in WiFFE...

It's important, bacause Bombay will often see battle and does have a factory (a PART in Bombay is common)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 4
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 12:33:53 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Is Bombay attackable from only 1 hex? Not so in WiFFE...

It's important, bacause Bombay will often see battle and does have a factory (a PART in Bombay is common)

Yes. You have good eyesight! I agree this is a problem, but I do not have a ready solution.

At the European scale Bombay is clearly on a peninsula with one attached land hex (to the NE). The WIF FE scale lumped Bombay's peninsula into surrounding terrain and conneected it to 3 other land hexes. Big change. What to do?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Incy)
Post #: 5
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 12:47:13 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
Is Bombay attackable from only 1 hex? Not so in WiFFE...
It's important, bacause Bombay will often see battle and does have a factory (a PART in Bombay is common)

Yes. You have good eyesight! I agree this is a problem, but I do not have a ready solution.
At the European scale Bombay is clearly on a peninsula with one attached land hex (to the NE). The WIF FE scale lumped Bombay's peninsula into surrounding terrain and conneected it to 3 other land hexes. Big change. What to do?

While I do not agree that Bombay often sees battle (I tend to have a TERR here as the CW, so I'm not leaving the door open for a PART, and the Jap rarely comes that far), I agree that the Bombay depiction is not ideal. I would have lived with it, for the previous reason, but if you think that it is a problem, I think it is easy to solve.
The hexes E and SE of Bombay are curently All Sea hexsides.
We only need to make them land hexside, by drawing the peninsula less big (and so the sea arm less deep).
By the way, looking at large scaled maps of Inda, it seems to me that the size of te Peninsula was well exagerated, so reducing it might serve 2 goals, making the map more WiF FE like, and makinf it more real.

Just a last not to say that composer99 commented that India seemed easier to conquer, at least to attack, for Japan. Maybe having Bombay slightly more difficult to conquer would be good for game purposes ?

Also, as a real last note, please note that Calcutta now is attackable from 1 normal hexside, and 4 river hexsides, while it was attackable from 3 river hexsides before. We might consider that it is easier to attack, so maybe making Bombay a little more hard helps ?

So we have the choice :
- Removing both E & SE All sea hexsides to make bombay as in WiF FE, and closer to reality.
- Removing only E hexside to maket it more like in WiF FE, but slightly harder given that there are other areas in India that are easier.

I prefer the last one finally.
And you ? Or a third one ?

< Message edited by Froonp -- 8/27/2006 12:49:34 AM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 6
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 2:19:56 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I prefer the latter option as well

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Post #: 7
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 8:30:47 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

So we have the choice :
- Removing both E & SE All sea hexsides to make bombay as in WiF FE, and closer to reality.
- Removing only E hexside to make it more like in WiF FE, but slightly harder given that there are other areas in India that are easier.

I prefer the last one finally.
And you ? Or a third one ?

I will implement the second solution on the Coastlines map.

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 8
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 11:15:08 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

So we have the choice :
- Removing both E & SE All sea hexsides to make bombay as in WiF FE, and closer to reality.
- Removing only E hexside to make it more like in WiF FE, but slightly harder given that there are other areas in India that are easier.

I prefer the last one finally.
And you ? Or a third one ?

I will implement the second solution on the Coastlines map.

Looks like this now. Is this ok ?




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Post #: 9
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/27/2006 11:20:01 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		There is this lake that is bugging me.
In maps I found about India, and on Google Earth, this lake hexside seems placed about 2 hexes westwards from where it is now on the MWiF map. What to do ?
This is a pretty remote area, I could also leave it this way...




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Post #: 10
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 5:13:20 AM   
Jeff Gilbert

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Ummm ... where's the lake?
Do you mean the SE hexside 3 hexes east of Peshwar?

< Message edited by Jeff Gilbert -- 8/28/2006 5:14:58 AM >

_____________________________

Jeff Gilbert
US Army [Ret]
Palm Harbor, Florida, USA

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Post #: 11
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 7:34:27 AM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I like the Bombay revision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

But most of it is laced with rivers.


That's true. A determined Japanese attack in 41-42 wouldn't find the cities too much of an obstacle, anyway, so the fact that under the same circumstances the rivers probably won't be much obstacle either makes no difference. All that matters, for the CW defence of India, is how much army the CW has in the country.

Edit: Oh, and also what degree of difficulty Japan has in taking Calcutta.

< Message edited by composer99 -- 8/28/2006 7:35:26 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 1:20:02 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Gilbert

Ummm ... where's the lake?
Do you mean the SE hexside 3 hexes east of Peshwar?


Yes, this one.
Lakes, before being drawn, are represented by Light blue hexsides on the MWiF map.

(in reply to Jeff Gilbert)
Post #: 13
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 1:27:00 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

Edit: Oh, and also what degree of difficulty Japan has in taking Calcutta.

See by yourself on this picture

Here also what I wrote in post #6
quote:

Also, as a real last note, please note that Calcutta now is attackable from 1 normal hexside, and 4 river hexsides, while it was attackable from 3 river hexsides before. We might consider that it is easier to attack (...)





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Post #: 14
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 7:20:10 PM   
trees trees

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Manistee, MI
Status: offline 		Would the various enclaves (Goa, etc.) rate minor ports? I've been fascinated by the Portugese empire lately.

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Post #: 15
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/28/2006 7:26:09 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trees trees

Would the various enclaves (Goa, etc.) rate minor ports? I've been fascinated by the Portugese empire lately.



Well who hasn't?

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to trees trees)
Post #: 16
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 8/29/2006 5:26:32 AM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trees trees

Would the various enclaves (Goa, etc.) rate minor ports? [...]


It wouldn't make much of a difference to the game balance if they did, since there is a Portugese, a French, and (I don't know for certain) a Dutch enclave. Sure, it's a few more ports for the CW to defend in some circumstances, mostly from the European Axis from what I saw on Patrice's first posted map, but if the European Axis has the ability, in terms of logistics, troops, and no Royal Navy, to mount a serious campaign in India (or at least to split the effort with the Japanese), then the Axis have probably already won the game.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/7/2006 12:36:29 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		About this lake in northwestern WWII India, I can't find it on the maps and on Google Earth (4 hexes north of Lahore and 3 hexes west of Peshawar) (See Post #10).

I only can find a small lake to the east of it (1-2 hexes east of Peshawar) and another south of it (1-2 hexes east of Rawalpindi. Both are about 20 km long, so they do not deserve 1 lake hexside, so I think I will simply delete it.

Opinions ?

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 18
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/7/2006 7:32:22 PM   
OgrePA


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline 		Hi all.  Been checking in for awhile and thought I would try and add some opinions as I have time.

There seems to be a lake near the indicated position in Pakistan. Not sure of any details regarding the lake.

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=8000000.7049066&Y=4000000.84694275&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=1&scale=2000000

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Post #: 19
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/7/2006 7:51:35 PM   
OgrePA


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline 		Further research shows the lake to be a result of Tarbela Dam that was built in the 1960's.  Sorry should have done some additional checking before posting.

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Post #: 20
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/7/2006 8:12:44 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OgrePA

Further research shows the lake to be a result of Tarbela Dam that was built in the 1960's.  Sorry should have done some additional checking before posting.


On the contrary, your information seems to clear up the mystery of why the lake was drawn on the CWIF map in the first place. Thanks.

Partial information often helps - and the more contributors the better.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 21
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/7/2006 10:00:41 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OgrePA
Hi all.  Been checking in for awhile and thought I would try and add some opinions as I have time.
There seems to be a lake near the indicated position in Pakistan. Not sure of any details regarding the lake.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=8000000.7049066&Y=4000000.84694275&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=1&scale=2000000


quote:

Further research shows the lake to be a result of Tarbela Dam that was built in the 1960's. Sorry should have done some additional checking before posting.


This lake is the first one I also found, but it is not at the right place anyway.
Also, thanks for the research.

(in reply to OgrePA)
Post #: 22
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/18/2006 7:40:22 PM   
Subetai

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? 

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Post #: 23
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/18/2006 8:04:43 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Subetai
Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? 

Not sure it is the right thread neither, but I read all of them .
The lev movement cost for swamp is the one of the European maps, that is 5 MP if I'm not too mistaken.
Jap leg units get a movement bonus in Jungle as in the Cardboard WiF FE.

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Post #: 24
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 12:40:27 AM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
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From: Ottawa, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Subetai

Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? 


Patrice answered part of your question already, but I might add here that it was Jungle that only appears on the Asia/Pacific map - although it does also appear in the American mini-map (or the Asia-scale America in Flames map) and the Africa map.

_____________________________

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Post #: 25
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 2:54:41 PM   
Subetai

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		I didn't word my question very well, and I don't have any game material with me, so I'll try again:

the rules don't mention what movement costs would be for swamp on the european scale map, because there wasn't any (composer99 yes swamp does appear on other maps)(True?);

the MWIF map will use the scale from the European map, or at least something smaller than the Asia/Pacific map of the cardboard variety (True?);

if the leg movement cost for swamp on the Asia/Pacific scale map is 5 (as Patrice states), then wouldn't it be less for the MWIF map, given the change in scale?

This is of course if my assumptions are incorrect.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 26
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 3:39:56 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Subetai
I didn't word my question very well, and I don't have any game material with me, so I'll try again:

No problems

quote:

the rules don't mention what movement costs would be for swamp on the european scale map, because there wasn't any (composer99 yes swamp does appear on other maps)(True?);

Swamp on the European Scaled maps will be the same as it was on the European Scaled maps in WiF FE, that is 5 MP for leg units and 8 for motorized units. The Swamp for the Pacific maps at the Pacific Scale are 7 MP for leg units and 9 MP for motorized units.

quote:

the MWIF map will use the scale from the European map, or at least something smaller than the Asia/Pacific map of the cardboard variety (True?);

MWiF uses the scale of the European map.
More, the European part of the MWiF map is the same as the WiF FE paper map, verbatim.

quote:

if the leg movement cost for swamp on the Asia/Pacific scale map is 5 (as Patrice states), then wouldn't it be less for the MWIF map, given the change in scale?

It is 5 MP on the MWiF map, not on the Pacific maps at the Pacific scale. On the Pacific maps at he Pacific scale, it is 7 MP / 9 MP.

(in reply to Subetai)
Post #: 27
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 4:46:18 PM   
Subetai

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Patrice. I just realised why I was having problems with this question.  I mean of course "Jungle" rather than "Swamp", hence my comment about the Japanese bonus. Plenty of swamp on the European map!

The heat must be getting to me.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 28
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 5:33:35 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subetai
Thank you Patrice. I just realised why I was having problems with this question.  I mean of course "Jungle" rather than "Swamp", hence my comment about the Japanese bonus. Plenty of swamp on the European map!
The heat must be getting to me.

OK. Jungle.
Jungle movement cost were not defined in WiF FE for Leg & motorized units, as there were no jungle hexes on the European maps.
Jungle movement cost for the Pacific scaled maps were 4 MP for leg units and 8 MP for motorized units.

Jungle movement cost for the European scaled MWiF map are double the forest movement cost, that is
- 2 MP for leg units and
- 4 MP for motorized units.

(in reply to Subetai)
Post #: 29
RE: MWiF Map Review - India & Burma - 9/20/2006 5:38:36 PM   
sajbalk


Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline 		The change in scale, I take it, would result in no movement bonus for Japanese leg units in the jungle?

The loss of the movement bonus for MTN units in the Pacific scale mountain hexes I think will be obvious because there are no more Pacific scale hexes.

Having one scale will result in an easier game for newbies, especially over the dispute about 1/2 range for intercepting on the Pac. map.



_____________________________

Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

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Post #: 30
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