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US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 5:56:27 PM   
fleetwood

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/26/2007
Status: offline 		I have started a scenario 15 game against the computer in which I have sent both US subs and minesweepers to lay mines at choke points in the Phillipine area. I have not seen any mine symbols appear on the map as if they are not laying mines. Is there some issue why they are not laying mines and/or the symbols do not appear?
Post #: 1
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 5:59:49 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		If you're playing at the newest version of the game, check the TF information screen immediately underneath the picture. Look for a line of text that says "Do Not Lay Mines", click on it to change it to lay mines, and the TF will lay its mines at its destination.

But that's in general. If they're based in Manilla, they can't load mines in the first place (port's not big enough). Oh, and minesweepers don't lay mines...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 4/10/2007 6:01:28 PM >

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Post #: 2
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 6:50:39 PM   
6971grunt


Posts: 427
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Ya sure, you betcha
Status: offline 		Terminus is correct - if your coming out of Manila you won't load with mine (unless already loaded at the start of the game). You need a 9 or 10 size port to load up mines.

_____________________________

"Over?! It's not over until we say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" John Blutarsky from the Movie "Animal House"

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 6:53:02 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grunt6971

Terminus is correct - if your coming out of Manila you won't load with mine (unless already loaded at the start of the game). You need a 9 or 10 size port to load up mines.



or an MLE at a port with sufficient supply...

(in reply to 6971grunt)
Post #: 4
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 6:54:02 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Also, I have noticed that if the hex does not have a port of at least size 1 then the mine symbol will not appear.

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 5
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 6:59:06 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Also, I have noticed that if the hex does not have a port of at least size 1 then the mine symbol will not appear.



Odd - it appears on my maps... but the number of mines will not show at the base unless it has a port. Also, beware... i think this is considered an offensive mine field, and you might be more prone to run into your own mines...

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 6
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/10/2007 8:22:38 PM   
MineSweeper


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Nags Head, NC
Status: offline 		I use to place some offensive minefields between Borneo and Celebes on the first Japanese turn to catch the Boise or Houston....but it is more of a hinderence to the IJN and is not worth it.....

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Post #: 7
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/11/2007 9:17:05 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Also, I have noticed that if the hex does not have a port of at least size 1 then the mine symbol will not appear.



Odd - it appears on my maps... but the number of mines will not show at the base unless it has a port. Also, beware... i think this is considered an offensive mine field, and you might be more prone to run into your own mines...


That's it... I misremembered(tm) the situation!

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 8
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/11/2007 5:53:45 PM   
fleetwood

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/26/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the help!  So, your own side needs to be careful as they do not know where the minefields are within a hex. 

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 9
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/11/2007 5:55:11 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Depends on what hex it is. If it's your own port, it's a defensive minefield, and you can be assumed to have charts for it. If it's one of his, it's an offensive field, and the risk goes up...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to fleetwood)
Post #: 10
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/11/2007 5:55:24 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fleetwood

Thanks for the help!  So, your own side needs to be careful as they do not know where the minefields are within a hex. 


Yes - more than one player has been chagrinned to lose a ship in an offensive mine field that they sewed.

(in reply to fleetwood)
Post #: 11
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/11/2007 5:55:28 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fleetwood

Thanks for the help!  So, your own side needs to be careful as they do not know where the minefields are within a hex. 


Yup. If you drop mines in a base that you own, that's a defensive minefield and only enemy ships can hit the mines. If you drop mines anywhere else, they are offensive mines. Anyone can hit them.

(in reply to fleetwood)
Post #: 12
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 3:50:15 AM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		Once Hong Kong falls, how long will the IJN take, using a minesweeper with like 10 MSWs, to clear those mines ?

And, can a minesweeper TF at Hong Kong just be parked there, and there still be a minesweep, or do you have to move in and out of that hex to get a sweep ?

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 13
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 9:55:58 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

Once Hong Kong falls, how long will the IJN take, using a minesweeper with like 10 MSWs, to clear those mines ?

And, can a minesweeper TF at Hong Kong just be parked there, and there still be a minesweep, or do you have to move in and out of that hex to get a sweep ?


2 - 3 days will clear them. The TF can be parked there, or in an adjacent hex.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 14
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 1:37:58 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: fleetwood

Thanks for the help!  So, your own side needs to be careful as they do not know where the minefields are within a hex. 


Yup. If you drop mines in a base that you own, that's a defensive minefield and only enemy ships can hit the mines. If you drop mines anywhere else, they are offensive mines. Anyone can hit them.



i think i might modify that to say if you have a PORT in the hex, they are defensive... i am not sure about a non-port base (i.e. airbase only or just a dot hex)... i base this on once running into my own mines at a dot hex. Could have been a fluke, but i am not willing to make the experiment in my PBEM games...

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 15
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 2:58:23 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: fleetwood

Thanks for the help!  So, your own side needs to be careful as they do not know where the minefields are within a hex. 


Yup. If you drop mines in a base that you own, that's a defensive minefield and only enemy ships can hit the mines. If you drop mines anywhere else, they are offensive mines. Anyone can hit them.



i think i might modify that to say if you have a PORT in the hex, they are defensive... i am not sure about a non-port base (i.e. airbase only or just a dot hex)... i base this on once running into my own mines at a dot hex. Could have been a fluke, but i am not willing to make the experiment in my PBEM games...


Yup, you're right Robert. In order for the minefield to be defensive, there must be a friendly port in the hex.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 16
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 7:01:49 PM   
6971grunt


Posts: 427
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Ya sure, you betcha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

Once Hong Kong falls, how long will the IJN take, using a minesweeper with like 10 MSWs, to clear those mines ?

And, can a minesweeper TF at Hong Kong just be parked there, and there still be a minesweep, or do you have to move in and out of that hex to get a sweep ?


2 - 3 days will clear them. The TF can be parked there, or in an adjacent hex.


I believe the rules indicate that even in your own port there is natural attrition of the mines 5 to 10% per day (i.e., they float away into the great blue abyss). In the open ocean I believe the rate is as high as 50% per day.


_____________________________

"Over?! It's not over until we say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" John Blutarsky from the Movie "Animal House"

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 17
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/12/2007 11:36:44 PM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		What does the IJN fanboys think about converting a few AKs to MLEs ?

And the Allied fanboys, what do you think ?

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

(in reply to 6971grunt)
Post #: 18
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/13/2007 8:44:13 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

What does the IJN fanboys think about converting a few AKs to MLEs ?

And the Allied fanboys, what do you think ?


I make 3 on turn 1. Both sides.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 19
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/13/2007 4:40:45 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		In CHS, the Brits get a few MLEs early {first six months}. I still make three or four within the first month of the game. Only need about two, but it is always advisable to have a spare or two.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 20
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/13/2007 7:12:33 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grunt6971

I believe the rules indicate that even in your own port there is natural attrition of the mines 5 to 10% per day (i.e., they float away into the great blue abyss). In the open ocean I believe the rate is as high as 50% per day.



The attrition is 1% off a base or dot (friendly or not), 5% off a land mass without a base and 50% in open sea.

As for building MLE building 3 seem too much for me for both sides at start. I only convert one at start (available in spring) and then 1 or 2 in spring-summer 42 (available in fall). Two AR are far more useful IMOO than two MLE.

(in reply to 6971grunt)
Post #: 21
RE: US Mine Laying - 4/14/2007 2:20:31 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


quote:

ORIGINAL: grunt6971

I believe the rules indicate that even in your own port there is natural attrition of the mines 5 to 10% per day (i.e., they float away into the great blue abyss). In the open ocean I believe the rate is as high as 50% per day.



The attrition is 1% off a base or dot (friendly or not), 5% off a land mass without a base and 50% in open sea.

As for building MLE building 3 seem too much for me for both sides at start. I only convert one at start (available in spring) and then 1 or 2 in spring-summer 42 (available in fall). Two AR are far more useful IMOO than two MLE.



That depends on your mine philosophy I guess. I lay a lot of mines with my subs, and I use the MLEs to reload them. The Jap short range subs cant stay on station very long, so I use them for mine boats. US subs arent terribly effective until late '43, so I use them as mine boats as well. I score more damage with mines from US subs in 42 than I ever did with torps, and Im not risking the boat doing it.

Edit: And I think (not going to dig out the rules and look it up right now) that the 1% decay is only at friendly bases, and 5% at other (including enemy bases) coastal hexes. This would account for the mines actually being tended to (which they were) at a friendly base, and not being tended to in other locals.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 4/14/2007 3:00:45 AM >

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 22
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