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Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 5:23:39 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hello fellow wargamers. I have put together a small teaser screen for you guys to look at. This gives you an idea of what HnM3 will look like graphically, there is only minor terrain features in this screen. However I have a list here for you what it is in this screenshot.

Does it look better than HnM2 so far? :)

What you see in this screen is:

Top: Rough Ground

Middle: Shrubs

Lower Left: Three trees that represents Medium Hardwood in the editor.

Lower Right: Soft Ground

and last the cliff edges that borders to the next hex level of height in the upper right corner :)

Attachment (1)

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 4:40:03 PM   
Sumter

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Magnus,

This looks really good.  Do you have any estimate as to when the new game will be released?  Also, I know there was a list of likely new terrain features, etc that was published here some time ago.  Do you have a good idea of how many of those features will actually be incorporated into the game?  Will dragoons be able to fight dismounted?  Any plans for more varied artillery?

Thanks,
Sumter

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 4:50:26 PM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I have plans for more varied artillery, though not for the first two rereleases. Dragoons fighting dismounted I will include that if Tim allows it for Warriors of Russia. There are many new terrain features for the game. No estimate so far sorry Sumter.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 5:09:18 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Looks excellent!

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 8:12:52 PM   
Tim Coakley

 

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Status: offline 		The new terrains that were listed previously are all in the new games. No dismounted formation however.

Almost all variables are also ediable...even the threshhold to auto-activate and the # of turns between command phases.

Tim

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 10:15:25 PM   
lancerunolfsson

 

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Status: offline 		looks nice, however I'm thinking there could from a game play standpoint, be a higher level of contrast, between the different terrain types. What I'm seeing is men, a house(and a very nice house at that) what could be a countour edge or a road or a ditch. then subtly different patches of green. Realisim from a game play stand point is not always the best target;^)

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/9/2007 10:49:03 PM   
sabreman1966mcs

 

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From: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Status: offline 		Looks excellent

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 12:14:23 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		No worries Lance, the terrain isn't final. However this small pic doesn't show much, when you see the whole battlefield it will look even better. I might cut down on the contrast a bit though. We'll see, glad you like it by the way :)

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 2:18:56 PM   
lancerunolfsson

 

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quote:

I might cut down on the contrast a bit though.


Actually I would like greater contrast. It all looks reall nice I'm just thinking it blends together a tad too much. Maybe the diferent types are more easy to tell apart when seen in larger areas.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 3:21:16 PM   
Capitaine

 

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Status: offline 		Regarding the "cliff edges" that border the next level of terrain... is that intended for every contour level, or just where there are, in fact, cliffs?  I personally don't like the cliff look for all elevation changes and would prefer a bevelled edge of the same "grass" color instead.  A cliff edge would distort the look of gentle slopes on the battlefield, IMO, which is what the majority of elevations would seem to be.

The house, the unit, trees and normal ground all look very nice.  The shrubs look somewhat problematic -- perhaps their size, density and patterned look -- and the rough depicting large stones is also questionable to me.  What is "rough" actually supposed to represent?  I don't usually envision big stones, but realize the need to stylize it somewhat.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 4:51:49 PM   
Magnus

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Capitaine the cliff edges aren't final. I have though about having them in the actual color of the elevation instead of having them look the same and like real cliffs like they do now.

Also the shrubbery is perhaps a little too dense, I actually even put flowers in the shubbery, I think if I remove the flowers it won't look as dense as it does now.

I will make the cliff edges look more like slopes instead of cliffs. By the way any suggestions of how rough ground should look like? What I have now is large rocks for that. I can of course add more detail to it.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 5:20:07 PM   
Moltke71


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Status: offline 		Giid stuff!  That should shut up the eye-candy addicts.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/10/2007 6:34:20 PM   
Magnus

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Lance that is also correct that all parts will be easier to tell apart when you see the whole picture. This screen was maybe too small to show off. However it was just to give you an idea of how it will look like.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 3:36:20 PM   
Capitaine

 

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Status: offline 		"By the way any suggestions of how rough ground should look like?"

That's why I asked above what rough terrain in the game is intended to represent.  In most wargames, "rough" seems to represent some kind of rugged or undulating terrain.  I suppose it could represent anything from rocky to uneven (not flat).  In operational level games, it's often used to represent foothills before mountain terrain begins.  This terrain class doesn't seem to be used as much in tactical level games.  Sometimes it can represent, I think, terrain with a lot of undergrowth or "shrubs", like your shrub hex.

If rough is supposed to be rocky (like Little Round Top or the Devil's Den), then your rough looks good.  If it's merely undulating, then maybe not.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 4:59:54 PM   
Tim Coakley

 

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Status: offline 		The "rough" terrain type is a catch all for any ground that would hinder movement...rocks, thick undergrowth, snow drifts....

The scenarios can now use a specific terrain pallete, so the designer could make 6 types of "rough" ground and then paint them on the map.


Tim

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Post #: 15
RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 5:19:28 PM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		You guys actually gave me an great idea now, how about if I add shrubs to the rocky rough terrain I have now? And maybe other large rocks, how would that look like? I can put up an example tonight and post it here to hear  your opinions on it.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 7:16:28 PM   
Capitaine

 

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Status: offline 		I would agree with Tim that it's better to go with specific types of rough terrain than attempting to use the generic "rough".  If it's rocky, use rocky terrain.  If undergrowth, use shrubs, etc.  Rough, being a catch-all as Tim said, isn't really specific enough for a tactical representation, in my opn.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 8:26:49 PM   
Tim Coakley

 

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Status: offline 		Just clarifying my comment above...the game will treat the terrain type as "Rough"...what the scenario designer uses that terrain type for can vary.

In a winter battle, it could be deep snow...in hill country, it could be rocky ground.

The difference will be the graphical representation that can now be set per scenario.

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Post #: 18
RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 11:06:01 PM   
Capitaine

 

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Status: offline 		That's just as good.  Nice to have accurate graphic representation.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/11/2007 11:16:34 PM   
Magnus

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Which reminds me Tim, give me an email regarding more "rough" terrain types that I could do.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 4:58:47 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Here is a second screenshot showing vineyards and the new updated rough ground.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 5:42:30 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Lovely screenshot! I personally would make the rough a bit less rocky. The smaller boulders look fine, but the very large rock formations look like the Devil's Den. Just a personal preference. The fields and units look absolutely gorgeous. I can't wait to play this game.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 7:03:47 PM   
Magnus

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Good point Arinvald, what should I have there instead of the rock formations?

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 7:44:45 PM   
HORST324

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline 		WOW! That shot looks terrific. I'm really looking forward to the improved version of this game. I have the original and as much as I like it, it is definitely frustrating to play sometimes. We need a good, first-class tactical treatment of the Seven Years War with all the necessary "pomp and circumstance" that adds so much to the immersion into this interesting and colorful period of military history. It looks like you guys are on your way to doing just that. Keep up the great work!

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 8:03:53 PM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks Horst, doing my best to give this period justice.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 10:07:01 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		This is just my personal preference mind you, but when I think of Rough Ground; from an 18th century military perspective; I think of uneven ground, broken by small rocks or dense scrubby growth. A thicket or plowed field would be an example.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/12/2007 11:03:44 PM   
lancerunolfsson

 

Posts: 257
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Status: offline 		I like the new rough as depicted it is very clearly visible. small pebbels would be hard to make out, especialy if zoomed out. Stick with the boulders and stuff. It looks good.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/13/2007 12:37:31 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I have dense shrubbery as you can see in the first screen :) Yeah I think I'll stick with the rough terrain for the first release at least. I can always change it later on.

Also mind you that the rough terrain might be placed on higher levels of terrain, this showing here is the lowest of the terrains, just plain grass.

< Message edited by Magnus -- 4/13/2007 12:38:34 AM >

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/13/2007 12:48:30 AM   
Panama Red

 

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Status: offline 		Magnus:
I too prefer your current depiction of "rough terrain", this way it is clearly visable and identifiable from all other terrain. As Arvinvald pointed out, it may appear like there are a lot more large rocks than in reality, but at least you can easily spot the current rough terrain this way.

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RE: Small teaser screenshot! - 4/13/2007 1:14:43 AM   
Magnus

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Panama Red do you like the scale so far? I think you said earlier that you wanted me to try to keep everything in scale instead of increasing the size of the units. I think I'm near to achieve that.

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