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RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 7:33:23 PM

Snowman999

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Will tonnage sunk be tracked for individual subs and will this contribute to more skill for the crew as it does for pilots?

No, the current system continues. Subs do gain experience, you know...

As a "subfanboy" I've always thought WITP was far too air-centric (GG's roots all the way back to USAAF?), and under-modeled the vast contribution USN subs made to the war effort. Patrol areas will be a huge improvement and finally allow sub skippers to hunt rather than squat in single-hex duck blinds. A great improvement.

While I woold also like tonnage to be tracked I understand it's a low-payback proposition to gameplay.

But one suggestion I'd make (probably for a patch list at this point) is add a sub crew fatigue variable to each vessel. As it is now a sub can turn-around after a three-month patrol in a single day. No R&R, no refit unless there's system damage. Of all vessel types subs absolutely need some crew time ashore for basic health and efficiency. Lack of this, coupled with forward basing, makes for VAST numbers of on-station USN boats in 1944 and 1945, far more than historic.

An easy way to incorporate fatigue, if room can be found for the variable in the DB, is just to make it a negative against crew experience. If the player wants to turn a low-damage boat around with no R&R he can, but the fatigue gets subtracted from the experience level in the attack algorithm. Similar to pilots.

On the sub AI front, if there could be limits on how subs get stacked north of the PI and south of Osaka/Tokyo it would improve things a great deal. Now, by 1943, Japanese merchants have to run gauntlets of 20-30 subs in 480 miles. Not realistic. Subs spent a lot more time in island chains and on the China coast than they do in AI WITP. The Japanese merchant marine evaporates once the torpedoes begin to work in 1943. Just a suggestion.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 241

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:25:04 PM

DerJimbo

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline

Will you be able to organize your combat vessels in subunits such as "1st Cruiser Sqn" or "3rd Destroyer Flotilla"?

(in reply to Snowman999)

Post #: 242

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:35:57 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

7) How about the British withdrawal? Is it still in? Any chance the PP penalty could be toned down a bit for destroyers if it's still in there?

No, that whole routine is gone. Instead, all Allied ships can have a withdrawal date set (and a date to return to the map).

Is this withdrawl date harcoded? Or is there still the option to pay PP to keep my valuable ships? By 1943 the only thing I used my PP for was to keep a decent RN presence in the Indian Ocean

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Post #: 243

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:37:43 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Sorry that is the answer to both questions? It is unclear.

Sorry, I didn't see the other question. That's an Air Team issue, so please ask over there.

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Post #: 244

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:38:58 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

7) How about the British withdrawal? Is it still in? Any chance the PP penalty could be toned down a bit for destroyers if it's still in there?

No, that whole routine is gone. Instead, all Allied ships can have a withdrawal date set (and a date to return to the map).

Is this withdrawl date harcoded? Or is there still the option to pay PP to keep my valuable ships? By 1943 the only thing I used my PP for was to keep a decent RN presence in the Indian Ocean

The withdrawal date is part of the individual ship's editor data. I honestly don't remember what we did regarding PP's; I'll get back to you on that.

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Post #: 245

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:39:17 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerJimbo

Will you be able to organize your combat vessels in subunits such as "1st Cruiser Sqn" or "3rd Destroyer Flotilla"?

Yes, and No.

You can set lower level commands, although more likely something like Naval Districts within regional fleets, etc. This is just a display convenience however, there is no function for attach a complete DD squadron to a TF or any such thing. It is handy for "where's my ships"?

P.S. I looked into doing it already, don't bother to ask for it...

(in reply to DerJimbo)

Post #: 246

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:39:44 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MineSweeper

Will the RMS Queen Mary and RMS Queen Elizabeth be in the game.....they were used as troopships in the war.....

Probably, though the OOB is still being put together. It's a definite possibility.

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Post #: 247

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:40:34 PM

MineSweeper

Posts: 653
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Nags Head, NC
Status: offline

Very Cool...thanks

Maybe if one was lost due to enemy action the Brits would have to pay PPs for the loss...they were a strategic asset..

< Message edited by MineSweeper -- 12/8/2007 8:44:14 PM >

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Post #: 248

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 8:42:04 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

For earlier questions regarding submarines firing all their torpedoes every time, I've consulted my esteemed coder, and we're working on making that more realistic, i.e. less ammo-intensive.

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Post #: 249

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 9:02:41 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
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Now you know i'm gonna like that with my pedigree

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Post #: 250

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 9:13:24 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MineSweeper

Will the RMS Queen Mary and RMS Queen Elizabeth be in the game.....they were used as troopships in the war.....

Probably, though the OOB is still being put together. It's a definite possibility.

The use of the Queens in the Pacific was very limited and pretty much had ended by sometime in 1942. If they do end up in the OOB, expect an early withdrawal date.

Aquitania for sure.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 251

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 9:15:37 PM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
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I thought the Queens for most of WWII ferried stuff between England and the U.S. because they were so fast.

I could be wrong.

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Post #: 252

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 9:42:23 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I thought the Queens for most of WWII ferried stuff between England and the U.S. because they were so fast.

I could be wrong.

True for most of the war. They were involved in transporting the AIF from Australia to North Africa circa 1940. One (or maybe both) of them was refitted in Sydney between start-of-war-in-Europe and start-of-war-in-Pacific. But by or soon after the US got into the war, they were moved to the cross Atlantic routes.

Always the possibility that they could be used in the Pacific again after the war ended in Europe.

I'm sure someone on the forum has a complete day by day tract of them, along with Aquitania and Nieuw Amsterdam.

Well...

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 253

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 10:33:03 PM

pad152

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Are the proliferation of minefields modelled more correctly ?

We're cutting back on what Joe W. has called MitP (Mines in the Pacific). It should be more realistic.

Please explain?

Mining is sometimes of only base/port defense Japan has!

I would like to see the AI do more mining! Using some of it's subs to mine enemy ports and use minelayers to build up forward base defenses.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 254

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 10:35:22 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Are the proliferation of minefields modelled more correctly ?

We're cutting back on what Joe W. has called MitP (Mines in the Pacific). It should be more realistic.

Please explain?

Mining is sometimes of only base/port defense Japan has!

I would like to see the AI do more mining! Using some of it's subs to mine enemy ports and use minelayers to build up forward base defenses.

There are far too many mines in WitP at the moment. I'm quoting Don's response from a few pages back; he says it well...

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Woop's typo...MLE

There have been a lot of changes in mining. Two everyone will notice is:

1. Mines are a buildable device. This means they have a pool. Everytime a minelaying vessel loads mines, the pool for that type of mine goes down. When the pool is empty, you just can't load any more mines.

2. The fictitious ship type of MLE no longer exists. There are new types of port restrictions for rearming based on weapon size, which affects where mines can be loaded by type of mine. There is no mine rearming at sea.

That's all that can be said on mining at this time. Please don't bother with detailed questions.

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Post #: 255

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 10:50:55 PM

Jutland13

Posts: 112
Joined: 7/5/2006
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Historically, due to reduced resources and the deteriorating Strategic Situation, Japan chose to build less capable and armoured CVs. Additionally, few new surface ships above CL class were constructed. Will the Japanese player be able to build more Taiho class CVs inplace of lesser types or construct more or any new CL, CAs or BBs, if they have a better strategic situation? Thanks. Appreciate the great news and effort that is going into this product and the support it is geeting on the forum. Regards!

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 256

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 10:54:01 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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We discussed that a lot, and the short and the long of it is, don't expect any big "never-weres", like lots of Taiho's and what-not. We're going to stay within realistic Japanese (and Allied) planning. With that said, we've got a huge new OOB, and some new tricks planned, courtesy of the very cool Convert-To routines.

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Post #: 257

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 11:43:39 PM

GI Jive

Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
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I would like to see an Operation Olympic Campaign. Any chance that small suicide craft will be included?

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Post #: 258

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/8/2007 11:48:41 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

The scenario list hasn't been finalized yet, but lots of stuff is possible.

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Post #: 259

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 12:30:51 AM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jutland13
Historically, due to reduced resources and the deteriorating Strategic Situation, Japan chose to build less capable and armoured CVs. Additionally, few new surface ships above CL class were constructed.�Will the Japanese player be able to build more Taiho�class CVs inplace of�lesser types or construct more or any new CL, CAs�or BBs, if they have a better strategic situation? Thanks. Appreciate the great news and effort that is going into this product and the support it is geeting on the forum. Regards!

Terminus pretty much hit it on the head. The game remains War in the Pacific, and has an historical basis across the years. We looked at shipyard/slipway availabiltiy, resource diversion, and fleet constitution, as a function of what folks �knew at the time�, and concluded that it was much too speculative to invent a Japanese fleet that may have had this or that.

The convert-to routines attempt to make up for the originally hard coded evolution of the various naval assets. What you get are hulls that Japan built: what you also get is the ability to determine how those hulls are configured. AKs can be swiftly converted to carry troops, certain minecraft can be converted to an ASW escort role (and back again), certain merchant craft can be converted to auxiliary minecraft, or ASW patrol boats, or AVs, or even TKs.

The idea is to give the Japanese player flexibility in defining fleet composition mission/roles, with the limited assets they have. You don�t get Taihos (because you never could), but you can shift emphasis onto ASW escorts, or whatever auxiliary �types� you need at the moment.

We think this is quite compatible with contemporary Japanese practice and will allow a thoughtful Japanese player a range of options that would have been, notionally, available to an IJGHQ planner.

(in reply to Jutland13)

Post #: 260

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 12:50:38 AM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

Sorry, I didn't see the other question. That's an Air Team issue, so please ask over there.

I will thanks.

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Post #: 261

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 1:00:52 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

Any chance to get "auto-disband" command switch for subs too ? Kinda weird that any other TF can auto-disband when back in home port but not sub TF.

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Post #: 262

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 1:04:00 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Any chance to get "auto-disband" command switch for subs too ? Kinda weird that any other TF can auto-disband when back in home port but not sub TF.

I'll second this request. I hate having to disband subs, as I sometimes miss checking all ports. Which wastes repair time.

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Post #: 263

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 1:04:26 AM

MineSweeper

Posts: 653
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Nags Head, NC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

True for most of the war. They were involved in transporting the AIF from Australia to North Africa circa 1940. One (or maybe both) of them was refitted in Sydney between start-of-war-in-Europe and start-of-war-in-Pacific. But by or soon after the US got into the war, they were moved to the cross Atlantic routes.

Always the possibility that they could be used in the Pacific again after the war ended in Europe.

I'm sure someone on the forum has a complete day by day tract of them, along with Aquitania and Nieuw Amsterdam.

Well...

You ask and you shall recieve....

Timeline in the PTO
We got to get the 2nd largest ship (81,000 tons) in the world into AE...

SS Normandie was the largest at (83,423 tons)

RMS Queen Mary

11/30/41 - 12/18/41 Docked at Trincomlee, Ceylon
12/19/41 - 12/28/41 On Route to Capetown, SA

3/15/42 - 3/23/42 On Route to Freemantle, AUS
3/24/42 - 3/28/42 On Route to Sydney, AUS
3/29/42 - 4/5/42 Docked Sydney, AUS
4/6/42 - 4/21/42 On Route to Capetown, SA

2/9/43 - Docked Maldives
2/10/43 - 2/18/43 On Route to Freemantle, AUS
2/19/43 - Docked Freemantle, AUS
2/20/43 - 2/27/43 On Route to Sydney, AUS
2/28/43 - 3/21/43 Docked at Sydney, AUS
2/22/43 - 4/18/43 On Route to Capetown, AUS

< Message edited by MineSweeper -- 12/9/2007 1:37:16 AM >

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Post #: 264

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 2:10:12 AM

mikemike

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
Status: offline

Does AE have building cost and durability of ships as separate data fields? This would help with "transferred" ships like Ro 500 (=U511), the Type IXC sub transferred to Japan. The boat arrived in Japan in August, 1943. There should be a way to have the boat arrive at the correct time in the game without having the Japanese player pay shipbuilding points for it.

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Post #: 265

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 4:50:39 AM

Richrd

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/22/2002
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I think I'm reading that you will be able to run ASW patrols with naval units like aircraft can now. Maybe persistent minesweeping patrols too?

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Post #: 266

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 5:28:44 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DerJimbo

Will you be able to organize your combat vessels in subunits such as "1st Cruiser Sqn" or "3rd Destroyer Flotilla"?

Yes, that would be very nice. Those of us crazies who actually manage our fleets this way could do it in the game. Also, it would make creating TFs much easier in ports with large numbers of ships.

(in reply to DerJimbo)

Post #: 267

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 5:29:46 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerJimbo

Will you be able to organize your combat vessels in subunits such as "1st Cruiser Sqn" or "3rd Destroyer Flotilla"?

Yes, and No.

You can set lower level commands, although more likely something like Naval Districts within regional fleets, etc. This is just a display convenience however, there is no function for attach a complete DD squadron to a TF or any such thing. It is handy for "where's my ships"?

P.S. I looked into doing it already, don't bother to ask for it...

Darn.

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 268

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 5:30:30 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Now you know i'm gonna like that with my pedigree

Pffft!

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Post #: 269

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 12/9/2007 5:32:20 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I thought the Queens for most of WWII ferried stuff between England and the U.S. because they were so fast.

I could be wrong.

True for most of the war. They were involved in transporting the AIF from Australia to North Africa circa 1940. One (or maybe both) of them was refitted in Sydney between start-of-war-in-Europe and start-of-war-in-Pacific. But by or soon after the US got into the war, they were moved to the cross Atlantic routes.

Always the possibility that they could be used in the Pacific again after the war ended in Europe.

I'm sure someone on the forum has a complete day by day tract of them, along with Aquitania and Nieuw Amsterdam.

Well...

I know that when the Bismarck was running amok, they were transiting the Atlantic unescorted (due to their speed). There was concern that the Bismarck could catch one of them and sink her.

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 270