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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:26:22 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi, thanks for the AAR

the dots along the railway lines are possible airbases i presume?

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Post #: 151
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:36:23 PM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline 		Why are the numbers for "Recent Battle" and "Permanent - Current Turn" losses shown for the Soviets so low? (88 and 20 men; 3 and 3 guns; and 7 and 0 AFV, respectively.) The Soviets are losing more men than the German each turn, but these two columns don't seem to reflect that. Just interested in knowing what the figures in those two columns are showing if different from the German figures in the same two columns. It's a strange disparity to me.

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Post #: 152
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:39:21 PM   
Balou


Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Things look wide open in the far south but I suspect it's more a case of inadequate recon.



How do get your recon ? Is the map and enemy symbols depicted the recon summary ? Or do you have some sort of "written" intel report such as in WitP and provided by the guys from FHO (Fremde Heere Ost = German Intel at the Eastern Front).

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Post #: 153
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:46:10 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		I was talking about not doing enough air recon.  When you fly air recon you may, or may not, reveal enemy units on the map or raise the detection level of already spotted units (up to level 4).

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Post #: 154
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:47:35 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Hi, thanks for the AAR

the dots along the railway lines are possible airbases i presume?


Those are towns.

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Post #: 155
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 2:53:21 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Why are the numbers for "Recent Battle" and "Permanent - Current Turn" losses shown for the Soviets so low? (88 and 20 men; 3 and 3 guns; and 7 and 0 AFV, respectively.) The Soviets are losing more men than the German each turn, but these two columns don't seem to reflect that. Just interested in knowing what the figures in those two columns are showing if different from the German figures in the same two columns. It's a strange disparity to me.


That is due in part to the way the info is reported right now. It should be cleared up when we get a true PBEM or Hotseat setup. You don't see accurate numbers for the Soviets because the AI is playing the Soviets and those numbers appear at the end of the Soviet turn. For peace of mind I'd say ignore all the numbers but the permanent losses in the right most column.

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Post #: 156
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 3:39:17 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		so where can you base air groups/units?

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Post #: 157
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 4:15:33 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Theres the 1st Cav Divsion attached to 2nd PzG that withdraws on turn 21. There are two SS mot brigades that come into play also...

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Post #: 158
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 4:41:08 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

so where can you base air groups/units?


You want to keep your airbases in clear or light woods terrain. Otherwise air units can't fly from them. That is from memory since foe some reason I can't find it in the manual right now.

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Post #: 159
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 5:24:07 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		Hi pyledriver and Elmo,

thanks for the updates-this is awesome. I have been literally awaiting a game of this magnitude and scope for the computer for over 20 years. 1st cav dividion subordinate to 24th PZ K part of panzergruppe Guderian (from 27th july 1941) is correct. I believe there was an SS cav brigade of 2 regiments under the command of fegelein (i might be mistaken if he was in command or just served in the unit).

Furthermore, what is the unit that has a half gray and half black as its colors? i see it located in the first screenshot and again in one of the last. is mot. inf regiment Grossdeutschland its own counter or considered a support unit at this time? 4th SS Polizei div-is that unit currently a part of AGC in your game? I thought for sure i had counted 4 SS divisions in your latest encirclement from AGC with the SS sealing the pocket. is it possibloe for you to upload a divisonal information screenshot? Is there a difference in abilities between some of your better units than the others? For instance i would rate the 29th motorized div as superior to say 3rd SS totenkopk given equivilant men and machines.

Once again thanks for your patience and time to answer questions from all of us on the bench here :)
cheers,
john

< Message edited by j campbell -- 2/20/2010 5:35:56 PM >

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Post #: 160
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 5:43:32 PM   
USSLockwood

 

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline 		I'm very interested in the situation facing AGC.  If you were able to break through to Mogilev and Vitebsk, I think the Smolensk defense would crack rather suddenly.

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Post #: 161
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 6:09:43 PM   
HerzKaraya


Posts: 195
Joined: 1/19/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		True,

1. Kavallerie-Division was part of 24.PzK, last appeared in Gomel on November 5th 1941 and was transformed into 24.Pz.Div on the 28th.

1. SS.Mot.Div "LSSAH" was directly attached to 1.PzGr, HGS
2. SS.Mot.Div "Das Reich" and Mot.Inf.Rgt "Grossdeutschland" were part of 64.PzK, 2.PzGr, HGN
3. SS.Mot.Div "Totenkopf" was directly attached to 4.PzGr, HGN
4. SS.Mot.Div "Polizei" was attached to 50.AK, HG"D", behind HGN, but later attached to 9.Armee, HGM
5. SS.Mot.Div. "Wiking" was part of 4.AK(mot), 1.PzGr, HGS

1. SS.Mot.Rgt "RFSS" was attached to 42.AK (Reserve), 9.Armee, HGM

SS Kavallerie Brigade was created and used mainly in August 1941 to clean the Pripet Marshes from partisans.

I agree with j campbell that SS Divisions, at least at the beginning of the war, are usually highly overrated, and that many regular army counterparts had much more experience and behaved better in battle.

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Post #: 162
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 6:53:41 PM   
tiger111

 

Posts: 451
Joined: 11/25/2005
Status: offline 		The 4th SS Div Polizie was not a motorized division. It was an infantry outfit. It was not an "elite" SS div-in fact performed quite poorly. It started the campaign in AGN.

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Post #: 163
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 7:08:53 PM   
Pford

 

Posts: 235
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:


1st cav dividion subordinate to 24th PZ K part of panzergruppe Guderian (from 27th july 1941) is correct. I believe there was an SS cav brigade of 2 regiments under the command of fegelein (i might be mistaken if he was in command or just served in the unit).


The amount of research this type of game entails must be awe-inspiring. Maybe exceeded only by WiTP. Good luck.

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Post #: 164
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 7:23:33 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		The half gray and black units are SS, however there not elite SS...

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Post #: 165
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:05:18 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		XXVI and I Corps from the 18th Army (purple) have taken the high road and moved through Tallinn unopposed.  They will continue east along the coast. 4th Pz Grp (red) and the rest of 18th Army have taken Pskov and will drive northeast toward Leningrad.  16th Army (pink) will continue to support the right flank and try to maintain contact with AGS to the south.




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Post #: 166
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:14:44 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		In contrast we are not making good progress in the center.  The 3rd Pz Grp's (light green) bridgehead over the Dvina in the north expanded a bit but we have not achieved the breakout we need yet.  There was heavy fighting south of Mogilev but 2nd Pz Grp (light blue) only managed to get 17th Pz Div across the Dnepr.  The 4th Army (dark blue) is holding the right flank and clearing the marsh slowly.  It's hard for them to remember the goal is to drain the swamp when they are up to their asses in Soviet alligators.   2nd Army (medium blue) and six OKH reserve divisions (white) are still marching toward the sound of the guns.  In the center 9th Army (green) is slowly pushing eastward.




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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 167
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:19:08 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		AGS forces liquidated the Soviet pocket west of Zhitomir and may have the start of a breakthrough to the northwest of the city.




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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 168
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:22:28 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		In the far south we continue to make slow but steady progress, limited only by the speed of our foot soldiers so far.  Could Odessa fall next week?  Stay tuned...




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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 169
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:31:03 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Losses through turn 5:






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Post #: 170
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 8:41:04 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Somebody asked for a divisional information screen shot.  Here is the 17th Pz Div that I mentioned was the only unit to cross the Dnepr near Mogilev.  Note the almost complete lack of fuel.  They aren't going far this turn.  That is what the red triangle in the upper left corner signifies in this case.



And here is the TOE for the 17th Pz Div.




< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/20/2010 8:45:29 PM >

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 171
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 9:30:14 PM   
Balou


Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Here is the 17th Pz Div that I mentioned was the only unit to cross the Dnepr near Mogilev. Note the almost complete lack of fuel. They aren't going far this turn


Does 'almost out of fuel' reduce the defense capabilities of the 17 PzDiv ? I mean in case the AI decides to counter-attack the bridgehead can we assume that moving isn't necessary at all for a defender to hold? Would a fuel amount of less than 10% be enough for a PzDiv to safely retire across a river (of cause I don't assume this will happen that early in Barbarossa, but just in case) ?

Thanks again for this AAR


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Post #: 172
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 9:36:30 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		hi lee,

Are the units led (by leader) at the division or at corps level. Awesome screenshot. You took some serious casualties in the last turn roughly 20,000 if i am not mistaken from end of turn 4 to end of turn 5. That would make you 32 days into the campaign.

So your losses are about what the wehrmacht had lost at that stage:

Killed Wounded Missing
June (22-30) 8,886 29,494 2,707
July 48,470 125,579 9.051


I realise this is very early, ( WE ARE IN ALPHA) but are there any variants on the initial set up of forces or are all the designations/units placement already established for the opening turn?

thanks again,
john

_____________________________

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Post #: 173
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 9:38:59 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		hi lee,

1 more thing before i forget-your bridgehead there-is it across a bridge/railway hex or can you cross a major river anywhere with panzer/motorized troops? If counterattacked and forced to retreat across that river would you sustain increased losses?

thanks,
john

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Post #: 174
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 9:52:28 PM   
Bronze

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR - the time is appreciated.

Could you comment on the reserve and security divisions?

Can you stack the airbases and have an uber base?

And what about the TOE being above 100% for certain items?

How does the handling of generals work? And down to what level?

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 175
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 10:27:05 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

quote:

Here is the 17th Pz Div that I mentioned was the only unit to cross the Dnepr near Mogilev. Note the almost complete lack of fuel. They aren't going far this turn


Does 'almost out of fuel' reduce the defense capabilities of the 17 PzDiv ? I mean in case the AI decides to counter-attack the bridgehead can we assume that moving isn't necessary at all for a defender to hold? Would a fuel amount of less than 10% be enough for a PzDiv to safely retire across a river (of cause I don't assume this will happen that early in Barbarossa, but just in case) ?

Thanks again for this AAR




Moving across a major river (not into an enemy ZOC) for mech/motor units costs the terrain +4 so 17th Pz will not be retreating. Fuel does not affect combat IIRC.

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Post #: 176
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 10:36:04 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

hi lee,

Are the units led (by leader) at the division or at corps level. Awesome screenshot. You took some serious casualties in the last turn roughly 20,000 if i am not mistaken from end of turn 4 to end of turn 5. That would make you 32 days into the campaign.

So your losses are about what the wehrmacht had lost at that stage:

Killed Wounded Missing
June (22-30) 8,886 29,494 2,707
July 48,470 125,579 9.051


I realise this is very early, ( WE ARE IN ALPHA) but are there any variants on the initial set up of forces or are all the designations/units placement already established for the opening turn?

thanks again,
john



Leaders are Corps and up. No variants in the setup.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 177
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 10:38:12 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

hi lee,

1 more thing before i forget-your bridgehead there-is it across a bridge/railway hex or can you cross a major river anywhere with panzer/motorized troops? If counterattacked and forced to retreat across that river would you sustain increased losses?

thanks,
john


You can cross anywhere but it costs a lot to cross a major river with mech/motor units. Rail hex does not affect that unless you are entrained. Don't think there are any extra losses for the river but I don't have the manual open now so any other testers can correct me if that is incorrect.

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 178
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 10:39:45 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Hindenburg

Thanks for the AAR - the time is appreciated.

Could you comment on the reserve and security divisions?

Can you stack the airbases and have an uber base?

And what about the TOE being above 100% for certain items?

How does the handling of generals work? And down to what level?


I have to go out for the night so if no other testers chime in here I'll answer these questions tomorrow.

Nice to see everyone enjoying the AAR.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 179
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 11:33:42 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well Lee, even if a unit doesn't have the MP's to retreat, if forced to retreat across a river it will, but the unit looks pretty ugly on the other side, really ugly...Theres attrition for retreats, more so, I believe, or I've seen across rivers....

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Post #: 180
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