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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR

 
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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 6:15:43 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Finland lacked the manpower and more importantly the economy to be able to support extensive prolonged operations outside of its own territory. The Finns had severe difficulty supplying what they had in the field a few months after the start of Barbarossa, and Mannerheim was perfectly aware that the Finnish economic would not be able to handle prolonged military operations.

It would be a nice feature if the Axis would get victory points for disbanding Finnish formations. The economy would be less strained and goodwill towards the Axis might be preserved. It would also force the Axis player to balance the need for more forces and the need to keep the Finnish economy operational, the same dilemma that Mannerheim faced. As the economy is fairly abstracted in WitE, the Axis player might be able to use Finnish forces in a way that is not only unhistorical but that also simply would not have been possible during the Second World War due to the state of the Finnish economy.

Edit: Elmo, I don't see withdrawal dates on the air unit information screenshots you posted, will these units stay for the entire war or is the withdrawal date not specified in the unit information screen, but rather in sort of a reinforcement screen like in TOAW?

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 2/27/2010 6:18:52 PM >

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Post #: 301
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 7:56:11 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Units auto withdraw. You have no choice, there gone. I havn't seen hows it done with air units but land units if not up to TOE spects relocate to the west edge of the map until the are... We also have a hotkey that color outlines units that are set for withdraw, refit, and static.

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Post #: 302
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 9:25:58 PM   
Kharkov

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: Birmingham
Status: offline 		Yes I agree. I think that having a graphic of the unit (similar to the original WIR) would really add to the atmosphere of the game. Is this in the plans do you guys know?

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Post #: 303
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 9:53:08 PM   
USSLockwood

 

Posts: 543
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Status: offline 		Elmo3, why is KG3's morale so low?

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Post #: 304
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 9:59:08 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		In one of the earlier posts it talked of the penalties for mixing organizations, how much of an issue is this for the Germans? Mixing organizations was one of the army's strengths due to the staff training.

I have to say your AAR has brought a tear or two my eyes, can't wait for this game to come out!!

< Message edited by oldman45 -- 2/27/2010 10:33:48 PM >

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Post #: 305
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 10:02:21 PM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		I know they're working on the AI...But as I said in the AI thread. Every city should have a unit garrisoned in it to stop the German from doing excztly what Elmo did. In fact I do in myself in every game I play as the Russians.
It could just be a container unit that the AI could shift sub units in and out.
In RGW you can take major cities with HQ units.

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Post #: 306
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 10:13:56 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.

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Post #: 307
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:02:59 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

Elmo3, why is KG3's morale so low?


I noticed that too and meant to check on it. Thanks for the reminder

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Post #: 308
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:05:09 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

In one of the earlier posts it talked of the penalties for mixing organizations, how much of an issue is this for the Germans? Mixing organizations was one of the army's strengths due to the staff training.

I have to say your AAR has brought a tear or two my eyes, can't wait for this game to come out!!


I make the effort to keep formations together but if an attack needs a unit from a different org to give it much better odds then I'll add it and not worry about any penalty.

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Post #: 309
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:29:48 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		The Finns have moved about as far as they can go for now (turn 12) so I'll only show this area again if something interesting happens.




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Post #: 310
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:33:45 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		We pushed across the Luga River in two places and hopefully next week awe can exploit those crossings and move the western part of the Soviet line closer to Leningrad. I cropped this picture close to give you a better idea of how the game really looks. It's still not as clear as my monitor but better than the wider shots.




< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/27/2010 11:34:26 PM >

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Post #: 311
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:40:35 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		The goal for AGC was to reduce the two pockets (gray areas) and they did that although we had to use more armor than I had hoped.  The AI did attack and attempt to break out last turn but our lines held.  Not much eastern progress but we should have more success next week now that we have taken care of the rear area cleanup.




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Post #: 312
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:44:56 PM   
elmo3

 

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Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		The noose is tightening aroudn Kiev and with luck we may create the pocket next week.  We sent in two waves of bombers to pound the city defenders in preparation for the coming assault.




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Post #: 313
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:48:48 PM   
elmo3

 

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Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		So much for turning the Soviet left flank as I fantasized last turn.  But note the entrained Italians just appearing at the western edge of the screen shot.  I'm sure they will turn the tide for us!




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Post #: 314
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/27/2010 11:53:55 PM   
MattFL

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		Great AAR, really enjoyable.

A quick question:

Why do some units show the factors as "3=3" and others as "3-3"? (I.e. what is the difference between the = and the -). It seems all Germans have a hyphen and most soviets, but not all, have an equals sign.

Thanks!

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 315
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 12:11:41 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Losses through turn 12. Note that Losses = Killed + Captured + Disabled. That problem was fixed.






< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/28/2010 12:12:58 AM >

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Post #: 316
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 12:19:34 AM   
elmo3

 

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Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mattp

Great AAR, really enjoyable.

A quick question:

Why do some units show the factors as "3=3" and others as "3-3"? (I.e. what is the difference between the = and the -). It seems all Germans have a hyphen and most soviets, but not all, have an equals sign.

Thanks!


The Axis units are set to Combat Value - Movement Points and the Soviets are set to Normal Combat Vlaue = Defensive Combat Value (takes terrain and fortificatios into account). Note the = does not mean equals. It is just different from the - so you can easily see what values are being displayed. Enemy values are not exact.

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Post #: 317
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 2:14:00 AM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		A technical question or two if I might. What kind of system are you running? How long does it take to run the Soviet turn?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 2:40:37 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		P4 3.0 GHz, 2 GB RAM, 8800GT w/512MB RAM, Win XP.  It probably takes about 5 minutes, give or take a minute or two, in the '41 campaign depending on whether the AI is trying to break out of any pockets.  Less in a smaller scenario.

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Post #: 319
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 3:15:45 AM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Great, Thanks, faster than I expected. I am running pretty much the same thing.

I am sure the urn would run faster if there were't so many Italano units running around

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Post #: 320
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 10:07:19 AM   
Balou


Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		elmo,
quote:

... We sent in two waves of bombers to pound the city defenders

Are there combat reports to show how much damage you did to a particular objective (eg Kiev) ? I figure out that sometimes more than one or two aerial attacks are required to soften a target.



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Post #: 321
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 11:02:23 AM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Seems pretty gamey that the AI is holding back the Finnish Army with stacks with a defensive strength of 1. There doesn't seem to be a single division in that line.

I know it's hard to code and open to exploitation, but perhaps an offensive/defensive value trigger could be added to the hexes next to the no attack line, similar to the AV trigger in Manchukuo in WitP:AE so the Soviets have to defend it with more credible units than a few guys in a bunker.

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Post #: 322
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 11:28:11 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

elmo,

Are there combat reports to show how much damage you did to a particular objective (eg Kiev) ? I figure out that sometimes more than one or two aerial attacks are required to soften a target.



Yes you can see bombing results like any other combat result.


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Post #: 323
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 11:29:31 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Seems pretty gamey that the AI is holding back the Finnish Army with stacks with a defensive strength of 1. There doesn't seem to be a single division in that line.

I know it's hard to code and open to exploitation, but perhaps an offensive/defensive value trigger could be added to the hexes next to the no attack line, similar to the AV trigger in Manchukuo in WitP:AE so the Soviets have to defend it with more credible units than a few guys in a bunker.


Something along those lines has been discussed. Not sure if any decision has been made yet.

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 324
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 6:58:35 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Man this AAR's got me really psyched for this game... I can sit at work and stare at those screenshots forever, my coworkers think I'm being very concentrated

Keep it up please

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Post #: 325
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 7:11:02 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		If you think this AAR is something that is consuming, wait until you have the tools in your hand. If your a WWII buff, your time is lost, you can't wait to play hooky from something you should be doing...

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Post #: 326
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 7:19:56 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stian

Man this AAR's got me really psyched for this game... I can sit at work and stare at those screenshots forever, my coworkers think I'm being very concentrated

Keep it up please


I'll keep it coming but there may not be a turn today. It's my day to do the taxes and I'm still not finished. I have also been tracking down a couple of potential bugs in the game in my free time.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/28/2010 7:22:24 PM >

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Post #: 327
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 7:48:46 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		So I should get the divorce paperwork going now to save my wife the time?

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Post #: 328
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 7:54:53 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		elmo, how far do you intend to go with this AAR? Will you go as far as Taifun and the Soviet counter?

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Post #: 329
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/28/2010 8:47:23 PM   
wiking62


Posts: 141
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

So I should get the divorce paperwork going now to save my wife the time?


This game is going to cause a lot of strife with our wives.

(in reply to Neal_MLC)
Post #: 330
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