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RE: How much - 11/27/2010 8:59:15 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		I have no idea what % that sales would be higher if something like this was sold for 40-ish $ instead of the usual amount.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 31
RE: How much - 11/27/2010 9:30:31 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Nope. And niether do I. All I hope for is Matrix DO understand the difference between high cost/low sales and low cost "potential" high sales.

I guess the way to do it is pretty much how every other company does it...they are not stoopid (companies) and we are...they'll bang it out at the price they know the die hards will pay for it...and then they can reduce it if and when sales do not meet expectation.
They are a business after all.

I'm now waiting patiently.

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Post #: 32
RE: How much - 11/27/2010 9:41:49 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		I'm really hope they show us some mercy. I would like to have some Birthday/Holiday money left after War in the East's Price does it's damage. I'm hoping for 70-80 bucks for the physical. $90...well...I will have to think long and hard. Let's just put it this way...I want this game and I'm willing to pay the higher price but I'm really hoping it doesn't cost as much as WitP:AE or BftB.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 11/27/2010 9:42:05 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: How much - 11/27/2010 11:41:57 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Has anyone debated here, the merits of Matrix running a P500 system of pre-ordered games at a ~35% discount as is the norm today in the board wargame world? Can't remember!

The board wargame manufacturers seem to need this cash up front to pay for production - I'm surprised that the developers publishing through Matrix have never wanted an early cashflow to pay for their long nights at the keyboard.

It's not the final release price that would be important to me as a business - as opposed to gaining 2000 pre-orders with cash guaranteed.

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Post #: 34
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 3:09:40 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		If I get as much bang for my buck out of this title as I've gotten out of AE I'm almost stealing.  I don't buy many games so the ones I do I get plenty of play from, if a game is good I don't care what it costs. Anyone that expects a game that's been in developement as long as this to be in the same ballpark pricewise as your run of the mill game is not living in reality.

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Post #: 35
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 4:22:04 AM   
colberki

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline 		I have waited a long time for a WIR succesor - you can charge 200 bucks especially since there is a hard copy manual.

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Post #: 36
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 5:55:37 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		The biggest cost this game is having enough money for your divorce. You be so hooked on this your wife will be able to count the number of hairs on the back of your head...lol...

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Post #: 37
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 6:17:06 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Look, I'm not selling anything here (and I have even less idea of the price!) as I am volunteer helper - I make no money from the game.  

The game will provide incredibly good value for money (at whatever price it is sold for, and we know it will be at least less than $100 - what is that in real money?).  For those of us that love this sort of thing, you will get hundreds (thousands?) of hours of challenging, infuriating, nail biting, good clean fun from this beauty.   I have been play testing for three or four months now, and putting in the hours.   I learn by playing, more than from reading the manual, and I have still got loads to learn.  I can play, sure, and quite well sometimes, but this is big!

My recent game partner Andy (Sabre) has just introduced me to my own miserable inadequacies, as he showed me how to use the elements of the game system in wonderful combination and with real style.    And I still enjoyed it.  And I'm going back for more.  

If you've been following these discussions, and you think the game looks good, you'll not be disappointed.




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Post #: 38
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 6:35:42 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline 		All I can say is,

The game will have it's price, it is well worth it. It is a monster game with a monster manual. (Very many pages)
Either you have a good printer or you'll be willing to pay for the physical shipment to get the printed version.

The tutorial is well written and because of the detail in the game, the tester who "had to" write the tutorial discription, wanted to explain as much as possible - to make the scenario understandable and playable for a newbie - was forced to write quite a few pages. But there are also lots of pictures that help explain the game.So it is a game that can be played straight after installment and the basics can be unsterstood.

It is not a game that will played after a few days then will end up on the shelf.
You'll want to change your tactics, move your divisions in another direction.
Have your airforce bomb enemy forces or try to take out the opponants airforces.
Can you reach your objectives before the Russian Winter sets in?
Who will be the master over the seasons? Mud, snow blizzards?
Can you beat the AI on easy, normal, challenging, hard or impossible?
Can you defeat your opponant in a PBEM?

It is a well known fact that money does not grow on trees and for some people the price will be a bit steep. I know from experience that I can always purchase a game after the release date, after I have saved for a few months, I still get the same amount of satisfaction from the game. Having it on day one is nice agreed, but it is also nice to be able to buy it after say 3 months saving.

The game will be rewarding, lots to learn, but tons of fun and dispair. Seeing your orders being followed and winning - seeing your orders being followed but without sucess.
Planning the next turns against your friends, opening your next turn hoping your armies are still there.

Think about it. Christmas, outside it's freezing cold, snow and ice and you're in your den fighting on the East Front. How fitting!!

But where I do get annoyed is reading posts where people are just complaing for complaining's sake. The game is worth the price, are you worth the game?

Mat



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Post #: 39
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 6:54:45 PM   
MacSporran


Posts: 5
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Status: offline 		Well said...

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Post #: 40
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 7:33:56 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I've been testing WitE now for 28 months. I have well over 5000 hours of game play, and still playing it right now as I watch football. Now 100 bucks divided by 5000 hours is .02 cents an hour, and I still have thousands of hours planned in the future...

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Post #: 41
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 9:17:25 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		This is the same agrument that was going on when WitP was released six years ago. Unless this game is real turkey the same thing will happen, the game will be released and we will be playing it six years later

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Post #: 42
RE: How much - 11/28/2010 11:31:24 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

This is the same agrument that was going on when WitP was released six years ago.


War, ... war never changes. Oh wait, that was another game.

I would be willing to pay $100,- for beta participation right now and the final version at release.


< Message edited by Lützow -- 11/28/2010 11:33:39 PM >

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Post #: 43
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 10:59:30 AM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil
...but tons of fun and despair.


Nowt to do with me I hope, Mat? We need a re-match soon, old boy.

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Post #: 44
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 2:23:12 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

I've been testing WitE now for 28 months. I have well over 5000 hours of game play, and still playing it right now as I watch football. Now 100 bucks divided by 5000 hours is .02 cents an hour, and I still have thousands of hours planned in the future...


You are at the end of the bell curve in play time for just about any game... That being said, I think $100.00 is to much to pay. I think my stretched upper limit is $80.00. It may be a great game and all, but I've been fighting on the Eastern Front with board and computer games for the last 35 years. There are so many other games out there demanding my limited time it honestly makes it VERY hard to justify such a purchase at the $100.00 price regardless of any condition or reason.



< Message edited by blastpop -- 11/29/2010 8:00:04 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 2:57:13 PM   
ool


Posts: 470
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		So don't buy it. God I am sick of people wanting a whole lot for very little. The cost of putting this monster together has to be recouped. Matrix isn't a charitable organization.How else do you expect companies like Matrix to stay in business? I agree with British Exile the belly aching about the cost is idiotic. You want quality be prepared to pay for quality. If not go get something else or get a part time job and make the extra few bucks for thousands of hours of enjoyment.

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Post #: 46
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 3:04:01 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

I've been testing WitE now for 28 months. I have well over 5000 hours of game play, and still playing it right now as I watch football. Now 100 bucks divided by 5000 hours is .02 cents an hour, and I still have thousands of hours planned in the future...


You are at the end of the bell curve in play time for just about any game... That being said, I think $100.00 is to much to pay. I think my stretched upper limit is $80.00. It may be a great game and all, but I've been fighting on the Eastern Front with board and computer games for the last 35 years. There are so many other games out there demanding my limited time it honestly makes it VERY hard to justify such a purchase under any condition or reason.




Your post brings up a good point, for the price this better be the BEST Operational level Eastern Front game in existence...because, like you said, we've all played the Eastern front a million times. Heck I could load up Barbarossa on Advanced Tactics and TOAW III right now if I wanted to. That said, everyone has their limit on price, but I don't think this game will disappoint.

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Post #: 47
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 3:54:21 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

So don't buy it. God I am sick of people wanting a whole lot for very little. The cost of putting this monster together has to be recouped. Matrix isn't a charitable organization.How else do you expect companies like Matrix to stay in business? I agree with British Exile the belly aching about the cost is idiotic. You want quality be prepared to pay for quality. If not go get something else or get a part time job and make the extra few bucks for thousands of hours of enjoyment.


I think you missed the point... the point is I believe there is a saturated market for something that I've done and seen before, constantly in the past 35 years. Everyone needs to make some money and I am not denying anyone that.

ool- why are you reading this thread if you feel "I am sick of people wanting a whole lot for very little."

In the end, I hope it is excellent as the testers feel it is and can be marketed at a price a lot of people can afford. We shall see.

< Message edited by blastpop -- 11/29/2010 7:45:15 PM >

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Post #: 48
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 4:15:25 PM   
AZKGungHo


Posts: 509
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		The East Front as a whole has had a ton of games done on it, that's true.  But how many games on this scale have we seen?  Not many that I know of, and certainly not recently.

So, at this scale, I'd say the market is far from over loaded.


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Post #: 49
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 4:34:09 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I don't know about an operational game, covering entire East Front, aside of some TOAW scenarios and the old WIR.

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Post #: 50
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 5:11:13 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Gentlemen, we have any number of AARs posted on this forum. You can judge for yourselves if this just another East Front game.

Every single one of us testers thinks otherwise. We believe this is something special. And most of us have played these other titles.



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Post #: 51
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 6:21:36 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

So don't buy it. God I am sick of people wanting a whole lot for very little. The cost of putting this monster together has to be recouped. Matrix isn't a charitable organization.How else do you expect companies like Matrix to stay in business? I agree with British Exile the belly aching about the cost is idiotic. You want quality be prepared to pay for quality. If not go get something else or get a part time job and make the extra few bucks for thousands of hours of enjoyment.

And this my friends is why price threads end up dragging down games and their release.

No one is asking for a whole lot for very little (whatever that means anyway!). No one is saying that Grigsby and his crew shouldn't be able to recoup not only the price of creating this game, but have a bit of profit thrown in as well. And no one is belly aching. They're merely giving Matrix and idea of the price point they'll be willing to part with the cash. That information is extremely useful for Matrix from a marketing point of view. Sure, they have a price anyway - and they may well not change their minds because a few people say they will only pay $x - but at the end of the day, if Matrix discovered they didn't sell as many units as they had hoped then the information they garner from the forums (before and after release) could help them understand why - regardless of whether it is truly price or whether it's some other reason

If 1000 people don't buy the game because of price and walk away without saying anything, Matrix HAVE NO IDEA why they didn't buy the game - they don't know whether it wasn't their cup of tea, or because of the price, or because it didn't have a full printed manual or whatever other reason it was that they didn't buy it. Matrix run a business...and making money is part of that. And part of making money is knowing your market and knowing your customers. If you (the company) deny people the right to tell your company why you aren't selling your product - then you have missed a MASSIVE opportunity to maximise that profit you so dearly need.

If those 1000 people told Matrix the reason they didn't buy that game, Matrix as a company understand how very very important that information is. Just because you don't means squat.

So you can shout about belly aching if you want. Matrix need to know who is buying and at what price - that's great news for them. But they also need to know why people are not buying...that is just as invaluable to them.

Funny how there are people on here saying what they are willing to pay, but it's the people who say to Matrix I can't/won't pay over $x that get verbally attacked. Why is that information any less important to Matrix? So it's fine to say "I'm willing to pay $100 for this baby" but it's not alright to say "I think $100 is too much, I'd be willing to spend $80"??

There's no belly aching going on - people are just voicing their reasoning - both for and against. If you carry on with your inflamatory posts, this thread will end up like many others - "them v the others" and mud will start to be chucked around.

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Post #: 52
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 7:15:31 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		These debates are so predictable and arise everytime Matrix releases a special title. Was the case with WitP AE, BftB, WitE now, and will happen again if WiF eventually sees the light of day. What makes it in particular annoying is the hypocritical reasoning of people pretending to talk from a 'marketing' perspective when all they want is a discount, even though there is no price announced yet.



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Post #: 53
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 7:57:00 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

These debates are so predictable and arise everytime Matrix releases a special title. Was the case with WitP AE, BftB, WitE now, and will happen again if WiF eventually sees the light of day. What makes it in particular annoying is the hypocritical reasoning of people pretending to talk from a 'marketing' perspective when all they want is a discount, even though there is no price announced yet.




I made no mention of discount or pretended to voice a "marketing" perspective tho JudgeDredd may be construed as such. I was merely voiced what I am willing or can afford to pay, no more than $80.00. I really want the game- just the reality of it is I'm not a fanboy of 2by3 games. If the value for the dollar is there then it will make it a "no brainer". OTOH, if it is a bit more murky then there is the need to find other ways to value the purchase. Bottom line I am price sensitive whether its a game or groceries... have always been that way and won't likely change.

Did enjoy JudgeDredd's post on the subject and his thoughtful analysis. I think he is spot on. Nice post!

Good Gaming!

< Message edited by blastpop -- 11/29/2010 8:14:17 PM >

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Post #: 54
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 8:20:45 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I want no discount. Nor do I "pretend" to talk from a marketing perspective. I AM talking from a marketing perspective. There's no pretending going on and nor am I being hypocritical.

I'm actually going to buy the game and hope it's a sensible price so I can get it on release. If it's not, I've already mentioned elsewhere that I have not taken part in Matrix holiday sales until I see how much this is so I don't blow the money.

Edited for being a KJ. Sorry.

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 11/29/2010 10:40:45 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 8:23:13 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

These debates are so predictable and arise everytime Matrix releases a special title. Was the case with WitP AE, BftB, WitE now, and will happen again if WiF eventually sees the light of day. What makes it in particular annoying is the hypocritical reasoning of people pretending to talk from a 'marketing' perspective when all they want is a discount, even though there is no price announced yet.




Yep, déjà vu all over again

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Post #: 56
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 8:39:01 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

But where I do get annoyed is reading posts where people are just complaing for complaining's sake. The game is worth the price, are you worth the game?


Hear, hear.

I for one am really looking to playing this game's Anzio scenario.

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Post #: 57
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 8:49:06 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
If you're too much of a wanker to apologise in public for calling me a hypocrite, I'll accept it by PM



I guess it's rather on you to apologize for name calling here. Terms like w***** are not in accord with board rules anymore.

And no, I won't accept it by pm, it has to be in public.


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Post #: 58
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 9:38:50 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		I think everyone just needs to take a chill pill, wait for the game to be released and then either buy or not. Just stop it withe the flame wars. Criminey, they are annoying

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Post #: 59
RE: How much - 11/29/2010 9:50:27 PM   
sburke1959

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/11/2010
Status: offline 		well said. makes one real hesitant to look for a pbem partner when folks can't even civily agree to disagree on the pricing of a game that hasn't been released.

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Post #: 60
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