How much (Full Version)

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animaluk -> How much (11/24/2010 10:47:20 AM)

Hi looking forward to this great game as the title says what will it set me back in the good old uk.i will defo be getting it but need to put some money aside for it.



blastpop -> RE: How much (11/24/2010 12:19:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: animaluk

Hi looking forward to this great game as the title says what will it set me back in the good old uk.i will defo be getting it but need to put some money aside for it.


Been wondering myself. I am in the US- so I would expect something around $80.00? Anything higher than that price I'll need to do some serious re-evaluation to see if I want to invest that much.



Crimguy -> RE: How much (11/24/2010 3:07:26 PM)

I'm guessing 69 for DD, 79 for combo DD/physical.



wworld7 -> RE: How much (11/24/2010 3:39:12 PM)

With the release being estimated as soon, we'll all know soon enough how many beers we'll have to give up to obtain this beauty.[:)][:)][:)]



SGHunt -> RE: How much (11/24/2010 4:09:18 PM)

Surely there are many things to give up before beer, the staff of life!

This is me in my natural habitat:

[image]local://upfiles/33891/AD9894C2777645369B19E92031596F6C.jpg[/image]



V22 Osprey -> RE: How much (11/24/2010 6:19:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

I'm guessing 69 for DD, 79 for combo DD/physical.


That's minimum. I was thinking more of 79 DD and 89 DD/Physical. However, I pray that they have some mercy. Atleast I already have the money set aside for this game too, along with WiF and Modern Wars vol 1.



animaluk -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 6:48:38 PM)

You guys must have a idea of the cost so let us know please



JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 6:59:47 PM)

That's kind of what annoys me (and in the past) - you seriously cannot tell me, after how long this has been in development and knowing the release is imminent that you do not know a price yet...really? The release is round the corner...some figures must've been discussed?



pompack -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 8:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

That's kind of what annoys me (and in the past) - you seriously cannot tell me, after how long this has been in development and knowing the release is imminent that you do not know a price yet...really? The release is round the corner...some figures must've been discussed?



I suspect that the basic problem is a matter of roles and NDA terms. I seriously doubt that any tester, developer or any person associated with 2x3 is empowered to disclose any Matrix financial detail. Furthermore since I am quite sure that they have discussed/speculated among themselves about the price Matrix will set, they cannot claim that any comment they make is simply ignorent speculation instead of violation of privilege. [:)]

So just blame the lawyers [:D]



JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 8:08:11 PM)

I'm not expecting any testers to know the price. Nor am I expecting any developer to divulge the price - what I'm saying is Matrix must know the price surely - and if they do, why not publicise what the price will be...it does nothing but get peoples backs up when a price is sprung. And if it is a large amount of money as most people expect, not only does it prepare them for that on release day, but gives them a chance to put the money by.

As an example - I've bought nothing on the Matrix sale because I'm waiting to find out how much this costs. If I knew now, I may well be able to run off and buy another game.

Just saying...if the price is known, why not allow people to soak it up prior to release...and I cannot believe it isn't known with the release allegedly around 2 or 3 weeks away.

I'm done. I promise I will not mention anything more about it and I'll wait for the announcement or the release - whichever is the closest!



JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 8:11:44 PM)

pompack - I see why u responded as you did...I meant "you" as in Matrix - not any testers



animaluk -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 8:11:46 PM)

Well said that man



Lützow -> RE: How much (11/26/2010 9:19:49 PM)

I guess the answer here is simple. Matrix don't like to see price arguments starting prior to release already. Just assume a range from 70-90 bucks and you're on the safe side.



wworld7 -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 12:43:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I guess the answer here is simple. Matrix don't like to see price arguments starting prior to release already. Just assume a range from 70-90 bucks and you're on the safe side.


I doubt the above is the answer.

What all companies try to avoid is last minute changes in pricing that tend to upset customers. There is no doubt Matrix has settled on a pricing range. Many things, like the date of release can effect final price(s), ex. Dec. 2010 may be cheaper than Feb 2011 (many of these variable are too complicated to explain in a quicky post).

Matrix, IMO, is better off waiting until the price is locked in before telling us. I tend to be turned off when a products price changes at the last minute.

If they say it will be $79.95 that's fine (as is any price under the $100.00 I budgeted), but if they then have to change it to $85.95 at least one customer will be UNHAPPY (ie: ME!!!). Pricing is a complicated issue and misinformation is costly.



Neal_MLC -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 3:11:09 AM)

Pricing is a complicated process and I seriously doubt Matrix et al know exactly what it will be. I am sure they have a ballpark figure by now but they won't know for sure until it is almost ready for shipping. I suspect it will be more than a penny and less than $1000.00. But that is just a guess.



Sabre21 -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 4:38:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

That's kind of what annoys me (and in the past) - you seriously cannot tell me, after how long this has been in development and knowing the release is imminent that you do not know a price yet...really? The release is round the corner...some figures must've been discussed?



I suspect that the basic problem is a matter of roles and NDA terms. I seriously doubt that any tester, developer or any person associated with 2x3 is empowered to disclose any Matrix financial detail. Furthermore since I am quite sure that they have discussed/speculated among themselves about the price Matrix will set, they cannot claim that any comment they make is simply ignorent speculation instead of violation of privilege. [:)]

So just blame the lawyers [:D]


You are correct in that an NDA would preclude any tester from divulging any thing like that, but in the nearly 2 years I have been doing it, I can't recall even on a single occasion that that subject was ever brought up on our tester forum. We don't get involved with that aspect. That's strictly between 2By3 and Matrix. We testers are as much in the dark as any of you guys.



JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 8:48:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I guess the answer here is simple. Matrix don't like to see price arguments starting prior to release already. Just assume a range from 70-90 bucks and you're on the safe side.

The problem with "assuming" is it gives you an expectation - and I've already done that with BftB and was very very sorely dissappointed - which is why I would like Matrix to state the price prior to release when they know what it is. There's no real reason not to - if anyone is not going to like the price, then it gets the price war out early - more than that it would be publicity for the game (and any publicity is good publicity right?). But regardless - the price war will erupt - Matrix have to decide whether it's more beneficial to have that cloud the release, or get it out the way early. I would argue it's probably much more damaging to have that price war on release day.

So the negatives of announcing the price prior to release?
1. A price war erupts on release day

The benefits of announcing the price early?
1. A price war erupts prior to release
2. People know what the price will be - no sticker shock on release
3. They are able to adjust their spending for the month
4. For the impulse buyer, there will not be the disappointment of not getting the game on release as it will already be known...NOT have that big disappointment on release day

I've already been here with BftB. I "assumed" (safely I thought) that the price would be slightly higher than Conquest of the Aegean. I was sorely disappointed on release day. I had already spent money on games that month, so the upshot was I could not buy it on release and that really disappointed me. Further to that, as the weeks went by, I found my initial desire to purchase the game sliding. I am an impulsive buyer. I have very nearly on several occasions bought Revolution Under Siege - and only just managed to not buy it. I now know that I'm pretty safe from spending my money on it now because the impulse to buy it has gone now, though it sparks from time to time when I read a post there.

I am only using BftB as an example of how the price hit me. I had a safe expectaion (I thought) and it simply wasn't the case. It's safe to say I have a higher expectation of what the price will be for this - but it doesn't mean it's safe.

Matrix may well not know the price. But a few weeks from release? I find that hard to believe. At the very least, they should know a very accurate range. I've seen alot of prices banded about for the expectation of this game and they vary wildly. I do not think, as you do, that $70-90 is a safe bet - and the only people who can dowse the flames of speculation are Matrix.

I genuinely think it would help for a smoother release...less people pissed off on release day would be a benefit to the game and the community in the forums. I have Christmas coming, with 2 birthdays for my girls in December. I'm hoping to get this - but money is going to be tight - so I would like to budget for it. If I know prior to release that I can't get it because of the price, then I will be fine about that. If I find out on release day that I can't get it because of the price, being an impulse buyer, I'll be pissed off.

It would certainly help me to know the price early...I'm sure other people have a lot of expense over Christmas.



Adam Parker -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 9:11:21 AM)

If this game covers the whole East Front, if this game is highly researched, if this game is rock solid, if this game has an intuitive interface, if this game has a wide set of scenarios and if this game is backed up by a user friendly tutorial that does not require tens of pages of an ebook to be read - then this game will be worth upwards of $80 USD along the lines of the best of board wargames today.

My .02.



animaluk -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 9:21:08 AM)

So once again how much it is a simple question. and as been said in better words then i could use. i will buy this game but it is common decencey to have a price. you do sell games all the time and must have a price already in mind so please let the world know.



Lützow -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 1:45:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

It would certainly help me to know the price early...I'm sure other people have a lot of expense over Christmas.



I think it's a mixed bag.

Matrix is in many cases different to other pulishers. They don't lump older products into a bargain bin, neither they held reiterating sales with $7,- prices for chosen titles. Even with the holiday discount many of their old games are almost as expensive as new releases and the former relationship with DR wasn't as professional as it could be in regard to customer service. On the other hand, plenty of work here is rather a labor of love and doesn't create much revenue. Like further developing games which are not expected to sell many copies anymore, due to sophisticasted customers, expecting longtime support for the 40,- bucks they did spend 4 years ago. Matrix maintains a platform where devs are in close contact with a predominantly mature and educated audience, and they have Erik to iron out everybody's personal concerns. In contradiction to a certain forum, where the King bestows the graciousness of his presence once a week, and ill-mannered kids, sheding a bad light on his company - for what reason ever - get permanently banned. That all has to be taken into account when we talk prices.

With that said, Matrix for sure relies on viral marketing and that can go both ways. If the vocal minority (us!) on these boards turn into an angry mob, it will overshadow an imminent release and might have a negative impact on sales numbers. That happened to AtD II in example, which was one of the best and - regarding forum activities - likewise most underrated titles this year. The casual visitor won't necessarily notice the positive side but rather evaluate about ongoing arguments and whatever Matrix charges for WitE, will create discussions again. So I do understand when they refrain from a premature price announcement, even it would be more convenient if we already knew how much money this game will take.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 2:20:33 PM)

Hi guys,

We are not ready to announce the final price yet, but I can help narrow things down a bit. It will be less than $100 but in the general range of our other "monster" games.

Regards,

- Erik



JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 2:26:34 PM)

Erik - that does indeed help - having a range or mark is the next best thing to a fixed price - and thanks. [&o]



Lützow -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 2:56:54 PM)

See. I was sorta right with my price assumption. [;)]



olivier34 -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 3:01:45 PM)

You all try to figure out the price in $...for my part I will pay it in Euros ! The rate is correct now, release please before this euro go down again ! [;)]



wworld7 -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 3:46:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

We are not ready to announce the final price yet, but I can help narrow things down a bit. It will be less than $100 but in the general range of our other "monster" games.

Regards,

- Erik


Now this is a nice Christmas present[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]



htuna -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 5:36:17 PM)

Your ultimate goal, understandably is to make money. Do your other 'monster' games sell enough to make that much more money with the higher price? If so, than your going in the right direction.

But it is said that the 'niche' is small... well people that are actually in that 'small' niche get driven away when the price is too high!... granted, this one looks good, like it would get many more hours of play time to me, than say bftb.. but, with all the low prices on many great strategy games out there, it is very hard for people that are part of the niche, to justify spending a 'lot more' on another title.

Granted there are people with whom money is no object, hats off to them.

Also, there are people that 'have to have' this one (it looks very tempting to me [:)] ).

But there are others that are more mindful how they spend their 'hobby cash'..

There are also others that you may draw into the niche (young kids out there buying the HOI's/Actung Panzer/Total War/Civ series), but the price may make them go 'whoa' and not sign up.

Just something to think about.



animaluk -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 6:39:03 PM)

I just want it



jjax -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 7:21:05 PM)

I'm not surprise, or happy for that matter, that this game will be one of the more pricey ones. \

Anyways, ff this game is as deep as WITP, WITH:AE, then I can justify spending quite a bit ob it.....but how do I justify it to the significant other [8|]



wworld7 -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 7:43:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Your ultimate goal, understandably is to make money. Do your other 'monster' games sell enough to make that much more money with the higher price? If so, than your going in the right direction.

But it is said that the 'niche' is small... well people that are actually in that 'small' niche get driven away when the price is too high!... granted, this one looks good, like it would get many more hours of play time to me, than say bftb.. but, with all the low prices on many great strategy games out there, it is very hard for people that are part of the niche, to justify spending a 'lot more' on another title.

Granted there are people with whom money is no object, hats off to them.

Also, there are people that 'have to have' this one (it looks very tempting to me [:)] ).

But there are others that are more mindful how they spend their 'hobby cash'..

There are also others that you may draw into the niche (young kids out there buying the HOI's/Actung Panzer/Total War/Civ series), but the price may make them go 'whoa' and not sign up.

Just something to think about.



The points you make above are valid, and I am confident Matrix (as any well run business will do) factored them into the group discussion(s) in the pricing section of the project plan (ie: it's not some poor smuck smoking a cigar and setting the price while getting a massage from a super model[:D]).

Some people will be priced out of the product (this happens with any hobby). Money does not grow on trees, but for some including me, I would rather pay more and get a better quality game than to pay less and get less. Yet, some people (and I am not saying you) believe the that high cost of production on a monster game (time, resources and money) can be recouped at pricing below the production cost. This is silly and unrealistic.

Recently in another thread for a different game someone said to the effect "well all workers that helped on a game do it for free, so the game should be cheap". There are signifcant costs just to keep the doors "open" at any company (even working out of your house). With so many hidden costs I am just glad Matrix is able to keep the doors open and able to brings us all some real gems for our entertainment. Now if only they would obtain the rights to Avalon Hills 3R life would be great!!!




JudgeDredd -> RE: How much (11/27/2010 8:16:56 PM)

On the other hand....do they "factor" those in? Or do they think "This is a big one...people will pay for this"...?

I don't know...all I know is I get the impression from time to time that this genre is deliberately being prevented from opening up sometimes. Almost like the protectionsim of the early 19th century and touted for this century.

Regradless...I've heard what it will be under, and I'm happy at least about that. I just need to hear a more finalised price and I will be happy (or otherwise)...but the initial estimate has pleased me somewhat.

You really cannot ignore the people you price out...slowly but surely it will bite you in the arse. You do need to realise that regardless how "niche" you think your market is, it will get smaller as the price increases! It can only grow as your price drops...it will never drop if your price drops (people willing to pay your higher price will pay your lower price). Of course that isn't necessarily related to profit...but it's about turnover right?



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