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RE: How much - 12/15/2010 1:17:13 AM   
htuna


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Video games prices of the past are not relevant... VHS tapes were 80 bucks back then, you can buy a new movie for 16 bucks now.... You can buy HOI III for 10 bucks at any sale. you can get WW2 Tales of Wrath for 5 bucks at gamers gate last week. TOW2 Kursk can be grabbed very cheap as well.. there's plenty of good low priced games out there. Board games are also a totally different item - they can be resold - they may even go up in value - there is cost for materials for every unit.

On the other hand, do I think WITE is worth 80 bucks and I'll get my money's worth... YES!

However with such an 'approachable' game, I think it does blow the chance of getting a much bigger audience if it was 50 with all the fan-fair from the people who have bought it and love it!

WITP I think needs to be 80, cause not that many people can get into it (even though it's a great game in it's own right).. This game however, is not 'niche' material.. The approachability is almost Beer and Pretzel like.. but the yet depth is readily apparent, that this is a masterpiece!

But this game here, any of those HOI/EU3/HPS and other strategy game lovers out there, would have an easy time slipping into this one. It's so fun, and you can just hop right in. But as you play (and even though your having simple fun), you see you have so much more to learn.. and then you realize, that due to this, how much playing time your really gonna get out of it! Looking forward to when I start that first FULL campaign!

Great job Matrix/Developers/Testers!!

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 241
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 1:21:44 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625
This game however, is not 'niche' material.. The approachability is almost Beer and Pretzel like.. but the yet depth is readily apparent, that this is a masterpiece!


Exactly why I'm beginning to prefer WITE over WITP

(in reply to htuna)
Post #: 242
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 1:28:03 AM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

I never bought those $60-$80 games back in the 80's either though.


I did. I didn't buy any magazines back then. I just wanted a new game (or two!) each week for the weekend. Every week Friday stops at the local software shop (I miss software stores that let you try a full program on their machine, before buying!), always ending in at least $60 + tax sales. It was actually a savings for me if I stayed away from two $60 games in one weekend (based on my other hobby back then... drinking to excess!). I sure didn't want to wait for mail order!

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
You could get all the SSI games for $20-$30 off at Chips & Bits anyways and later on several other bargain bin magazine ad sites. Sort of like NWS has most of HPS games for $20 off now and sells the boxed version of Matrixgames for the same price as the digital download.


Downline resellers are a completely different issue from the MSRP of War in the East in the context of the MSRP of the original War in Russia.


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Post #: 243
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 1:52:13 AM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Video games prices of the past are not relevant... VHS tapes were 80 bucks back then


No, but Grigsby games are. And they don't come on VHS tapes! *grin*

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(in reply to htuna)
Post #: 244
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 1:55:48 AM   
htuna


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Video games prices of the past are not relevant... VHS tapes were 80 bucks back then


No, but Grigsby games are. And they don't come on VHS tapes! *grin*


The funny thing is, the PC that I played those old games on (at least early 90's), cost 2500 bucks and it was a 'clunker'.. my last one, I probably built for 700, and it plays FPS like COD Blackops with everything on High and runs like a dream!.. and I built two more for my sons.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 245
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 2:29:13 AM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625


quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Video games prices of the past are not relevant... VHS tapes were 80 bucks back then


No, but Grigsby games are. And they don't come on VHS tapes! *grin*


The funny thing is, the PC that I played those old games on (at least early 90's), cost 2500 bucks and it was a 'clunker'.. my last one, I probably built for 700, and it plays FPS like COD Blackops with everything on High and runs like a dream!.. and I built two more for my sons.


The machine I played them on, only cost me about $2500.00 + tax, out the door. It was an Apple IIe with 128k, I say again, 128k ram(!) and get this, DISK drives! (I went ALL out... no kidding.) It was the 80's. However, that Apple didn't make it home before stopping and buying a Grigsby game! (as well as another SSI title *grin*)

PC's weren't even close to being a viable option back then, for _so_ many reasons.


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Post #: 246
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 4:08:40 AM   
torrone

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 12/27/2001
Status: offline 		I've never had any problem with Matrix games I've bought from NWS.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 247
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 4:28:41 AM   
torrone

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 12/27/2001
Status: offline 		I posed a question in another thread about how much the game would sell based on it's rather high price point. Of course it is a niche market game and will not sell like a Call of Duty or Medal of Honor games, nor should it expect to. It is a totally different market. I read where the hard copy version is sold out and awaiting a reprint. This is misleading as it is my understanding that Matrix produces its the docs for its games on an 'as needed' basis. I am a Grigsby fan and have purchased, played, and enjoyed many of his games. And with the amount of time and research put into a game like this, the price is going to be high because it will not sell like a mainstream game. The fact that the game has been lauded here by hardcore grognards means little. They would by the game regardless of price(and obviously have). But how many of them are there really? Enough to make this a success for Matrix? So what's the number of sales that would make this a success for Matrix?

(in reply to apd1004)
Post #: 248
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 2:54:27 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: torrone
...I read where the hard copy version is sold out and awaiting a reprint. This is misleading as it is my understanding that Matrix produces its the docs for its games on an 'as needed' basis.

No - I don't think so and I think it's your statement which is misleading.

afaik Matrix have no idea exactly how many copies they sell. They have an estimate on what the game will sell and they produce manuals and boxed sets based on that figure. They do not wait for your order to come in before they print your manuals. An "as needed" basis would not be cost effective. The games they provide manuals for are produced in bulk (regardless of how many they actually sell) to keep the costs of printing down.

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Post #: 249
RE: How much - 12/15/2010 2:58:01 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		By the way - I am lauding over the game. It's design is sleek. It's interface intuitive. It's game play is well designed.

Two things though - I am not a "hardcore" Gary Grigsby fan...I liked a few things he's done, but I wouldn't rush out and buy his latest just because it's him (no offence Gary) and secondly I am most definitely not a grognard. I'm a casual (bad) strategy gamer (tactical or strategic) who enjoys the thrill of planning and executing. I can pick up the latest racing game or FPS just as quickly as I could pick up a wargame.

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Post #: 250
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 4:43:57 AM   
ReconPathFinder

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/18/2006
Status: offline 		Buy everything Matrix, have from the day they opened so that tells a lot about my age and time and investment here but, I'll wait for a special or sale. Matrix has a perfect right to price their product as they feel they need to, but its pricing me out as a customer. Ive seen some huge leaps in their pricing but this one is beyond what I am willing to continue purchasing. Love the series and I think Matrix is one of the top tier companies in this genre, but its just frankly pricing me out as a customer. Nothing negative on Matrix's side, they provide a quality product and quality support, but my wallet is simply not endless in funds. I will still purchase this down the road, but I for the first time as a long time customer can not buy on release anymore. Obviously I spend more time playing than posting. So its a difficult decision to even voice an opinion. Look forward to this title though in the future.

< Message edited by jimrad1 -- 12/16/2010 4:47:11 AM >

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Post #: 251
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 2:43:57 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

And yes,yes I paid full price for it so you may laugh at me to your hearts content. I have no complaints.



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Post #: 252
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 3:02:57 PM   
Tophat1815

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

And yes,yes I paid full price for it so you may laugh at me to your hearts content. I have no complaints.





Guess you told me.............

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 253
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 4:35:01 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		Tophat:

When I saw that you had posted here, I checked the post because I always respect your comments. However, in this case it was annoying since I greenbuttoned this troll long ago. When you copy like this it bypasses the green button and displays it anyway.

I recommend that you try the green button him yourself so we stop feeding the guy.

(in reply to Tophat1815)
Post #: 254
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 5:29:00 PM   
Tophat1815

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		You are correct,I apologize for taking the thread in a petty and absurd direction. Knew I shouldn't have gone there when I did it which is worse.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 255
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 6:12:33 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Whats funny is the guys that bitch the most about the price, are the first to say it was well spent money afterall...I understand 80 dollars is 80 dollars. But can't tell you how many games I spent 30 dollars for that are on my shelve collecting dust...

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Post #: 256
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 8:04:02 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

Tophat:

When I saw that you had posted here, I checked the post because I always respect your comments. However, in this case it was annoying since I greenbuttoned this troll long ago. When you copy like this it bypasses the green button and displays it anyway.

I recommend that you try the green button him yourself so we stop feeding the guy.


pompack you remind me of another poster who used to be here who always trolled about who he had greenbuttoned. Is that you Frank? Nobody cares who you greenbutton.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 257
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 10:53:35 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		tbh diablo1 - I thought that was you

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(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 258
RE: How much - 12/16/2010 10:55:39 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Whats funny is the guys that bitch the most about the price, are the first to say it was well spent money afterall...I understand 80 dollars is 80 dollars. But can't tell you how many games I spent 30 dollars for that are on my shelve collecting dust...

I'll bite - who specifically is kicking around these forums that bitched about the price are now saying it's worth the price? hmm?

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Post #: 259
RE: How much - 12/18/2010 10:44:32 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

tbh diablo1 - I thought that was you


Me? Nah I'm not afraid of anyones opinion on here.

So, are you finding this game is worth the $80 you dished out for it Judge?

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 260
RE: How much - 12/18/2010 4:58:49 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Well - tbf neither was he.

Anyway - worth $80?

From my point of view, I'm very pleased with my purchase.

Knowing how I am with gaming, I can't really say I've got my monies worth so early on. If I'm playing this in a month, then I'd definitely consider it true to say I've had my monies worth - as I am seldom playing a new game a month down the road. Two months, and I'm definitely reaping the benefits of my purchase.

All I can say from my pov is I haven't regretted my purchase. In fact, I've played the tutorial and Road to Minsk, that's all, and I've started another game of Road to Minsk. If a 3 turn scenario can hold me - I wonder if the big one will. Sometimes I get bored with these big games...lose track of my initial objectives and just start blindly moving counters about without utilising the benefits the rules bring...and when that happens, I move on quite soon after.

I think you should ask me in a month if I'm still playing. If I am, then I am most definitely enjoying myself and my purchase.

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Post #: 261
RE: How much - 12/19/2010 10:53:33 AM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		And here is another one happy with his purchase.
+1

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Post #: 262
RE: How much - 12/20/2010 3:42:34 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I think you should ask me in a month if I'm still playing. If I am, then I am most definitely enjoying myself and my purchase.



ok that sounds fair. I've noticed some of your comments about other games and you have simular opinions taht I do on several. I'm still on the fence with BftB even with it onsale. I'm also one who doesn't like big long gaming affairs. I tend to like games that can be finished in one setting myself. I have the old Second Front game by SSI and I did play it to the end once and never wanted to play it again and that's probably how this game would end up with me. Fortunately the price will keep me from buying it for at least a year till next christmas sale anyway.

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 263
RE: How much - 12/20/2010 7:47:24 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline 		PyleDriver, I agree about the $30.00 games collecting dust. Plus a lot of $40 and $50 games as well.

This has been the best ROI I have ever received, except maybe for Civilization II.

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Post #: 264
RE: How much - 12/20/2010 10:49:20 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		The reason there are so many or more $30, $40, and $50 games collecting dust is because they are the "norm" priced games. $80 games are unusual and rare and thus will always look like there are less of them collecting dust (even though there are some) than those others. When $80 games become the norm (god I hope never) then you'll see just as many of them collecting dust as these $30, $40 and $50 games of today.

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 265
RE: How much - 1/1/2011 3:08:53 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I coulda bought Computer War in Europe.

No AI though.

For $19 more, I got WiTE. And the detail just astounds me.

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Post #: 266
RE: How much - 1/1/2011 3:55:04 AM   
billyjj

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		People on this forum still haven't learned their lesson. Looks like an other money grab.. this is getting really old, but the same fanboys say the same thing about game after game. "But this game is soooo good, and it took soooo much effort and research".. Its a damn eastern front hex game you don't need research all you do is open up a history book on tanks and copy the stats into your game, what a joke.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 267
RE: How much - 1/1/2011 4:24:05 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I bought WitE I beleive 2 days after release and have put in approximatly 40 hours of gametime,so yes its worth it,I paid about the same price for WitPAE and spent about 10 hours on that before boredom set in.I just dont have the patience to micromanagment every squad/unit,ship,etc with supply and worry etc.But my question here is why all the fuss in WitE regarding supply,when it seems all you have to do is keep your corps(as Axis) on railline 5 hexes away?Am I missing something?At what point does the game become "grognard" or complex?I always thought it would be the same difficulty/micromanagment as WitPAE

(in reply to billyjj)
Post #: 268
RE: How much - 1/1/2011 4:25:09 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		It's a wonderful game that reflects lots of hard work, not just "opening a history book and copying stats into a game," lol. The AI is pretty darned impressive, and I know how hard it is to code a decent AI. In terms of dollars-per-hour, it's also the cheapest game I've bought all year.

I do think, though, that the game is best for people who have some inherent interest in the subject-matter.


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Post #: 269
RE: How much - 1/1/2011 6:43:41 AM   
U235


Posts: 103
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Status: offline 		I felt I had to chime in on this one. I don't mind paying for a great game (after plenty of player reviews of course). What I do mind is when the game is old and still over 50 bucks. Example: I love Steel Panthers. I own every commercial iteration and most of the post SSI creations as well. Unfortunately I missed two of Matrixgames's expansion packs. The only way to get them now is to buy the General's Edition. This game has not been touched (updated) by Matrixgames in years, regrettably. That kind of blows the "continuing research/development costs" defense out of the water. I'm sure over 90% of the costs to make it have already been expended and recouped, I could be wrong.

As for WItE, it's up there (I'm still on the fence). My line thinking on it is wouldn't it be better to sell 2 people a copy for 50 bucks than one copy for 80? If the game is good, that's two supporting voices advocating (for people like myself that listen to many players opinions), and probably two people that will buy the expansions (if and) when they come out. The only flaw I can think of is that Matrix believes only a certain number of copies will sell regardless of the price. I would disagree. 80 bucks pays my home phone and cell phone bills for a month with a little left over. I'm sure a lot of folks evaluate their needs and wants before making a decision too.

Before I get shotgun blasted by some. I own WItP and WItP AE. I can tell you due to no fault of the games (work), I haven't got my monies worth from them yet (but I hope too, even if that will be when I retire). So I say to Matrix make me want to dig deep into my wallet to buy a game I probably won't get to enjoy fully for a while. 90 bucks (hard copy) looks almost exactly like $100 when it passes thru my brains "purchasing logic" filter. Oh yeah, and SPWaW Generals Edition needs a half price sale!

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 270
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