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RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 3:44:35 PM

doomtrader

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How much all three Starcraft II parts are going to cost together?

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RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 4:18:41 PM

bairdlander2

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The price for Starcraft 2 is $59.99 for Stardard Edition and $99.99 for Collector's Edition.I would not even consider this title to be the same as the wargames we are discussing in terms of complexity and depth.I would not even consider this title to be a wargame.

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RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 4:45:24 PM

doomtrader

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This was an example to show that not only wargames are expensive.

On the other hand, I always try to look how many hours of gameplay I'll have for XX$.
I think there are games that costs me one cent for hour. That's a deal!

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Post #: 243

RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 6:17:17 PM

diablo1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

The price for Starcraft 2 is $59.99 for Stardard Edition and $99.99 for Collector's Edition.I would not even consider this title to be the same as the wargames we are discussing in terms of complexity and depth.I would not even consider this title to be a wargame.

Would you consider the newer version of Axis & Allies computer game a wargame?

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Post #: 244

RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 6:21:18 PM

diablo1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Its not a reason to jack the price to $165.Yes according to surveys wargamers have more disposible income,but not all and thats no reason to increase prices.

But if they increased the price of wargames in America to $165 wouldn't they then cost $495 in Pln? I would think you'd want to keep the prices down in America so you could afford more in PLN.

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Post #: 245

RE: Business Model - 1/12/2011 6:36:41 PM

doomtrader

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90% of my purchases comes from Steam or GamersGate as I don't like localized versions. If I think that game is to expensive, I just don't buy it.

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Post #: 246

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 1:00:33 AM

wgs_explorer

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I have a suggestion that will make everybody happy:

1. Keep the prices as they are in the U.S.

2. Double the prices in PLN.

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Post #: 247

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 5:39:52 AM

ilovestrategy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wgs_explorer

I have a suggestion that will make everybody happy:

1. Keep the prices as they are in the U.S.

2. Double the prices in PLN.

You are my hero!

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 8:02:45 AM

Shark7

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I've read through the majority of this thread and really only have one thing to say.

I often find it funny that the same people that will complain about having to pay the full $40-$50 price for a game (or utilities or anything else that you might want or need) are the just as likely to plop down $6 for a pack of cigarettes or $10 for a six pack of beer and never complain once. Now I know that not all people are like that (in fact some of us are on a budget and have to be sure to get a good deal for our gaming $$$), but I often wonder how many of them there are. I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are.

Yeah, I'm kinda ranting, but it does get old hearing people complain about having to pay for goods or services. What it comes down to is if you want it bad enough, you will pay for it, and if not you won't.

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Post #: 249

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 11:13:29 AM

L�tzow

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I remember Matrix having a contract with a Polish retailer some years ago, who sold their games for roughly half of the official price. This got out of control when he started to offer Matrix titles over Ebay and shipped in adjacent countries.

On the other hand - and given the income gap between Western and Eastern Europe - it would be downright unreasonable to ask for ridiculous high prices at regions with an already high turnover of pirated software. Also, I don't get the "elite" thing. Most people I'm associated with are educated and would be very well capable to understand the rulesets of wargames. If they prefer rather shallow video games though, it's because they consider it boring to spend their leisure time with pushing counters over a map.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 11:45:16 AM

doomtrader

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They were selling those for 20 PLN, so like 7 USD now.

I bought a couple of them three or four years ago.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 1:24:32 PM

wgs_explorer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I've read through the majority of this thread and really only have one thing to say.

I often find it funny that the same people that will complain about having to pay the full $40-$50 price for a game (or utilities or anything else that you might want or need) are the just as likely to plop down $6 for a pack of cigarettes or $10 for a six pack of beer and never complain once. Now I know that not all people are like that (in fact some of us are on a budget and have to be sure to get a good deal for our gaming $$$), but I often wonder how many of them there are. I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are.

Yeah, I'm kinda ranting, but it does get old hearing people complain about having to pay for goods or services. What it comes down to is if you want it bad enough, you will pay for it, and if not you won't.

I agree completely. It is all a matter of priorities (and being able to prioritize doesn't put a person into any sort of elite status either), whether you buy it or not. I had a hard time coming to grips with spending $80 for BftB, but I didn't have any problem with setting aside $20 a payday. After 4 paydays I bought the game. No problem.

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Post #: 252

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 1:30:44 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I've read through the majority of this thread and really only have one thing to say.

I often find it funny that the same people that will complain about having to pay the full $40-$50 price for a game (or utilities or anything else that you might want or need) are the just as likely to plop down $6 for a pack of cigarettes or $10 for a six pack of beer and never complain once. Now I know that not all people are like that (in fact some of us are on a budget and have to be sure to get a good deal for our gaming $$$), but I often wonder how many of them there are. I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are.

Yeah, I'm kinda ranting, but it does get old hearing people complain about having to pay for goods or services. What it comes down to is if you want it bad enough, you will pay for it, and if not you won't.

And some people pay hundreds of thousands for a house, obviously they cannot complain about the price of anything then.

You do not compare the price of a computer game to a pack of cigarettes, or beer, or a car, or a house, or a movie. You compare it to other computer games.

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Post #: 253

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 2:21:39 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I've read through the majority of this thread and really only have one thing to say.

I often find it funny that the same people that will complain about having to pay the full $40-$50 price for a game (or utilities or anything else that you might want or need) are the just as likely to plop down $6 for a pack of cigarettes or $10 for a six pack of beer and never complain once. Now I know that not all people are like that (in fact some of us are on a budget and have to be sure to get a good deal for our gaming $$$), but I often wonder how many of them there are. I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are.

Yeah, I'm kinda ranting, but it does get old hearing people complain about having to pay for goods or services. What it comes down to is if you want it bad enough, you will pay for it, and if not you won't.

And some people pay hundreds of thousands for a house, obviously they cannot complain about the price of anything then.

You do not compare the price of a computer game to a pack of cigarettes, or beer, or a car, or a house, or a movie. You compare it to other computer games.

Maybe you don't compare it to those things, but I do. It's because the two things I listed are the things people will not give up, despite how outrageously over-priced they are...in similar ways gamers will pay the price if they want it badly enough.

And if you want to compare the price of computer games to computer games...$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game...Matrix prices are right in line.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 2:30:34 PM

diablo1

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quote:

$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game

The thing about those games are you can get them for less than $10 eventually and even less than $5 you can't do that with Matrixgames games.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 3:15:39 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game

The thing about those games are you can get them for less than $10 eventually and even less than $5 you can't do that with Matrixgames games.

And you get what you pay for. The titles that drop that low quickly were not good sellers, or you are getting a used game that may or may not work...you pays your money and takes your chances.

With Matrix, you get the game and ongoing support...now there does come a time to discontinue or bargain basement stuff I agree, but so long as the title is still supported, then you aren't just paying for bits of data, but bits of data with a real human making sure it will work when you buy it.

When Matrix releases a game patch, it doesn't cost you...basically it was paid for in the retail price as ongoing support. Keep that in mind.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 3:29:08 PM

bairdlander2

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Some say WitPAE was a $70 patch.And some argue here that BftB is an exspansion/mod/scenario pack,same game just different maps and units.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 3:31:23 PM

bairdlander2

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Smokes cost $10-15 here and 6 beer is $15-20 depending on brand.Quality brands cost more.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 4:14:58 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Maybe you don't compare it to those things, but I do. It's because the two things I listed are the things people will not give up, despite how outrageously over-priced they are...in similar ways gamers will pay the price if they want it badly enough.

And if you want to compare the price of computer games to computer games...$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game...Matrix prices are right in line.

As that is something you do, then why would you extend it to other people? Do you do it with everything or just with computer games?

PS3 or Xbox are not computers, they are game consoles and have a different pricing system. You should also know that the prices drop very quickly, unlike with matrix games...but again, not comparable.

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Post #: 259

RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 5:15:22 PM

bairdlander2

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Some titles Matrix publishes do drop in price.I didnt start pc wargames untill 2007.(I never bothered getting a pc since 1990

)and one of the first games I bought was "World at War".It realley stunk,I paid $40 for it, months later it was selling at the same store for $9.So yes you can find Matrix titles in bargain bin,but only if the store carrying them cant sell them.I also saw another crap title "Time of Wrath" selling for $20 on Matrix store and $5? on Gamersgate.Anyway it was alot lower then Matrix store.Not sure exact price,but a lot less.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 5:18:20 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Maybe you don't compare it to those things, but I do. It's because the two things I listed are the things people will not give up, despite how outrageously over-priced they are...in similar ways gamers will pay the price if they want it badly enough.

And if you want to compare the price of computer games to computer games...$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game...Matrix prices are right in line.

As that is something you do, then why would you extend it to other people? Do you do it with everything or just with computer games?

PS3 or Xbox are not computers, they are game consoles and have a different pricing system. You should also know that the prices drop very quickly, unlike with matrix games...but again, not comparable.

And my whole point, which you continue to miss, is that people will complain about Matrix games prices, yet will happily over-pay for other vices without even a peep. I've seen it far too many times over the years...sometimes when you want something, you have to give up something else...at least temporarily.

You are either willing to pay the price it is for whatever it is you want, or you don't get it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

And I am one of those who gave up a nicotine habit (over 10 years ago) due to having to decide what was more important. I am happier and healthier since that decision.

Priorities...only you can decide what yours are.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 5:29:00 PM

diablo1

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quote:

Complaining accomplishes nothing.

Oh I wouldn't say that, I've gotten countless free items by complaining. Free McDonalds, Free Cambells soups, free Chili's dinners, free $20 off coupons, free phone minutes and countless other things by complaining. Why if I could complain to Erik face to face I bet I could get a free Matrixgame game.

Believe it or not complaing IS FEEDBACK whether you like to read it or hear it or not it still provides a service of feedback about how a consumer feels. Enough complaining and things happen. I don't know if you know it or not but complaining to Egosoft got them to get rid of Starforce on their games and make downloadable versions without it available online.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 7:58:14 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

And my whole point, which you continue to miss, is that people will complain about Matrix games prices, yet will happily over-pay for other vices without even a peep. I've seen it far too many times over the years...sometimes when you want something, you have to give up something else...at least temporarily.

You are either willing to pay the price it is for whatever it is you want, or you don't get it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

And I am one of those who gave up a nicotine habit (over 10 years ago) due to having to decide what was more important. I am happier and healthier since that decision.

Priorities...only you can decide what yours are.

I'm afraid it is you who is missing the point. I can afford the game, but I will not buy it with these prices. Just like I wont buy a pack of cigs for 12 pounds if they are available for 6.

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RE: Business Model - 1/13/2011 11:46:59 PM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Some say WitPAE was a $70 patch...

I'd like to see that quote / opinion from "some people" ... obviously this is from people that have never played the two games or a subjective opinion from you bairdlander blown up to grind your own axe?

It's definitely not a $70 patch & anyone that holds this view needs to get their facts right by looking at the features list of both, talking to forum members that have both or actually owning both games.

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 1:19:20 AM

jomni

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Some say WitPAE was a $70 patch...

I'd like to see that quote / opinion from "some people" ... obviously this is from people that have never played the two games or a subjective opinion from you bairdlander blown up to grind your own axe?

It's definitely not a $70 patch & anyone that holds this view needs to get their facts right by looking at the features list of both, talking to forum members that have both or actually owning both games.

I used to say that.

And I own both and play both games.
If it's a different game then they should go back and patch up WITP stock and not end support.

< Message edited by jomni -- 1/14/2011 1:25:51 AM >

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 1:31:44 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Some say WitPAE was a $70 patch...

I'd like to see that quote / opinion from "some people" ... obviously this is from people that have never played the two games or a subjective opinion from you bairdlander blown up to grind your own axe?

It's definitely not a $70 patch & anyone that holds this view needs to get their facts right by looking at the features list of both, talking to forum members that have both or actually owning both games.

I used to say that.
If it's a different game then they should go back and patch up WITP stock and not end support.

So using your logic, WiTE is not a new game but merely a patch of WIR.

2By3 stopped supporting WITP years ago. If it had not been for a dedicated team of volunteers, you would not have had all those WITP patches. Those volunteers formed the basis of Henderson Design who produced AE. So what exactly would motivate them (which is now down to only 2 men) to continue to patch for free classical WITP?

Alfred

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 1:40:26 AM

jomni

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quote:

So using your logic, WiTE is not a new game but merely a patch of WIR.

Completely different games. Interface and gameplay is different. WITE is clearly written from scratch.
WITP and WITP:AE has the same interface and same code running under the hood... AE is just improved with more features.

quote:

So what exactly would motivate them (which is now down to only 2 men) to continue to patch for free classical WITP?

No motivation I guess. AE fixed the problems that WITP stock has but added a lot of new micromanagement that some feel is unecessary. Of course the majority thinks otherwise.

< Message edited by jomni -- 1/14/2011 1:42:01 AM >

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 1:47:52 AM

warishere

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Would you consider the newer version of Axis & Allies computer game a wargame?

If you are referring to the Axis and Allies real-time strategy game that came out about 5 or 6 years ago, I would say no, its not a "wargame" atleast not in the traditional sense. In fact, the real time battles in that game are complete garbage and not tactical at all and the strategic side of the game is not very deep, they're just links for the real time battles. But for some reason, people did play it and I guess some still do, even though its your typical RTS junkfest, I mean, click fest.

If this is not the game you're talking about then give us a screenshot or something...

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 1:50:37 AM

bairdlander2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Some say WitPAE was a $70 patch...

I'd like to see that quote / opinion from "some people" ... obviously this is from people that have never played the two games or a subjective opinion from you bairdlander blown up to grind your own axe?

It's definitely not a $70 patch & anyone that holds this view needs to get their facts right by looking at the features list of both, talking to forum members that have both or actually owning both games.

I didnt say it was a $70 patch I said "some say".To clarify I saw it posted on other forums,I think it either here or Armchair General.I dont have time to search right now.Im sorry next time I will include a link.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 1/14/2011 1:54:21 AM >

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 2:03:18 AM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

And my whole point, which you continue to miss, is that people will complain about Matrix games prices, yet will happily over-pay for other vices without even a peep. I've seen it far too many times over the years...sometimes when you want something, you have to give up something else...at least temporarily.

You are either willing to pay the price it is for whatever it is you want, or you don't get it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

And I am one of those who gave up a nicotine habit (over 10 years ago) due to having to decide what was more important. I am happier and healthier since that decision.

Priorities...only you can decide what yours are.

I'm afraid it is you who is missing the point. I can afford the game, but I will not buy it with these prices. Just like I wont buy a pack of cigs for 12 pounds if they are available for 6.

Then you prove my point, you do not want the games badly enough. Any item you purchase is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Matrix is obviously selling games at the current prices or they would lower them. It seems that plenty of us think the games are worth the price, since we are buying them. Some people think that the cigs are worth the 12 pounds, even though I'd never consider that (Roughly $30 right?).

But it is completely another thing to be willing to pay that 12 pounds for cigs then complain about a game at 25 pounds. What is the difference? They are willing to overpay for one, but not the other? Most of us won't but some will and then complain about it.

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