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RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 6:54:01 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		It looks like i have had some good inprovements with the mortars testing today...with Fox.

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Post #: 31
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 7:32:25 AM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks Overkenshin, glad to hear it seems to be working out ok

< Message edited by davidss -- 7/10/2011 7:33:58 AM >

(in reply to Overkenshin)
Post #: 32
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 8:03:00 AM   
STIENER

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		thanks davidss......it should make a huge improvement to the game...no more swiss cheese walls

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Post #: 33
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 1:35:43 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Doing some quick testing with the new elements file and I must say I'm really impressed with the new soldier behaviour. Only being able to exit buildings via doors and windows is a huge improvement. However, I still appear to be able to shoot through building corners, even when the terrain description is Stone Wall.

(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 34
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 1:40:02 PM   
kweniston


Posts: 144
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline 		Following this operation closely, thanks for working on this. (Btw off-topic, loved Songkran in CM ;))

(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 35
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 2:15:57 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER

Priapus...
sorry...my info on VdH Regiment is wrong........VdH was in command of FJ Regiment 6 which had 4 battalions. all 4 battailons were there. but they were under strength......totally only about 1000 men at the start of the campaign but reinforced through out the whole campaign. the 4th batallion was the heavy weapon battalion and was very well equiped with an 81 mm mortor co. , a mortorized a/t gun co. , and air defence MG co., and recon co. and an engineer co.
sorry about the confusion......IMO KG walther could use some more FJ MG teams, some engineer squads, and some a/t guns to reflect this. a few more shreaks too. plus FJ high morale.
VdH also supported KG jungwirth later in the campaign....so jungwirth could use some of these squads as well.


I'd like to change the reinforcements but still don't really understand how it works. Are the figures directly below a BGs initial force pool in FPools the reinforcements for that BG? Some seem to receive some strange reinforcements. A lot of KM troops reinforcing panzer BGs.

edit: ok, I think i've got the hang of it. please provide as much info about reinforcements as possible, because I have absolutely no idea where and what time units arrived and which BGs they reinforced.

< Message edited by Priapus1 -- 7/10/2011 2:27:38 PM >

(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 36
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 3:46:44 PM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline 		Some general suggestions:

When playing an edited Grand Campaign the overall victory conditions are based on which side has the most VLs. If you want to retain the historical scoring (Your progress is better/worse than your historical counterpart), the edited Grand Campaign file has to be copied from /Games/Save to /Data/Campaign where it replaces the original GC file.

When 'evolving' a mod its a good idea to practice some sort of version control.

There is a 'Mods and Scenarios' forum. It supports .zip attachments so mod files can be bundled rather than downloaded individually from an outside website.

There are a couple of simple mod installer tools available, berndn's automated installer being "a must have for any mod maker".

< Message edited by xe5 -- 7/10/2011 3:48:04 PM >

(in reply to Overkenshin)
Post #: 37
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 3:55:07 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping to have an installer prepared by the end of today. I'm releasing things piece meal to give people an opportunity to give feedback. This mod is certainly not a finished product and could be considered to be a "beta" at present. Once we're happy with things we'll make a proper release.

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Post #: 38
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 6:13:00 PM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

When playing an edited Grand Campaign the overall victory conditions are based on which side has the most VLs. If you want to retain the historical scoring (Your progress is better/worse than your historical counterpart), the edited Grand Campaign file has to be copied from /Games/Save to /Data/Campaign where it replaces the original GC file.


edit - from /Games/Battles to /Data/Campaign


Its occasionally useful for the user to know if he's got yesterday's beta or today's.

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 39
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/10/2011 6:52:54 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Each time I make an addition I add an edit to the original post with a description of the changes.

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Post #: 40
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 1:09:40 AM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Priapus1

However, I still appear to be able to shoot through building corners, even when the terrain description is Stone Wall.

Exterior walls have Line of Sight through, when adjacent (right beside). There seemed to be too many instances of soldiers with no Line of Sight when walls were coded with blocking all Line of Sight.



< Message edited by davidss -- 7/11/2011 1:13:02 AM >

(in reply to Priapus1)
Post #: 41
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 1:27:33 AM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Sorry david, I don't understand. At the point where exterior walls meet there is a LOS? Buildings in LSA have a great deal more windows and doors than those in TLD. But as you have mentioned, not all soldiers will be have access to an opening.

edit: oh, ok. i understand. you haven't changed exterior wall LOS at all. this might not be necessary in LSA because, as i mention above, buildings have many openings.

< Message edited by Priapus1 -- 7/11/2011 2:15:46 AM >

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 42
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 1:29:49 AM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		.

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Post #: 43
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 2:58:55 AM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Priapus1

Sorry david, I don't understand. At the point where exterior walls meet there is a LOS? Buildings in LSA have a great deal more windows and doors than those in TLD. But as you have mentioned, not all soldiers will be have access to an opening.

edit: oh, ok. i understand. you haven't changed exterior wall LOS at all. this might not be necessary in LSA because, as i mention above, buildings have many openings.

sorry ... I should have explained more clearly.

Regarding Soldier movement through exterior walls:
Original Matrix exterior walls give soldiers the ability to move through wall elements

The Ground Tactics 2.1 Elements file restricts movement ... soldiers can not move through exterior wall elements.

Regarding Line of Sight:
Original Matrix exterior walls, windows, and doors for TLD and LSA block Line of Sight but not when adjacent. This allows soldiers to get Line of Sight out of buildings when close to (positioned next to) walls, windows, and doors, but will block Line when soldiers are a further distance away from a wall, window, door. A benefit of this arrangement is ... soldiers and vehicles can not fire from outside the building and get Line of Sight through a window of one side of the building and out through another window on the other side of the building.

The Ground Tactics 2.1 Elements file is the same as above (no change).

I previously made changes to this, so there was no Line of Sight at all (through walls), even when adjacent.
That is how real life walls are ... but after some testing I realized that there seemed to be too many instances of soldiers with no Line of Sight, due to the blocking effect of no Line of Sight through wall elements. So from a game play perspective it seems better with the original Matrix idea of ... Line of Sight when adjacent. Therefore I didn't pursue this any longer, and decided to undo any changes to this and keep original settings for this.

Simply put:
... I've concluded with:
1. Soldiers can not move through exterior wall elements
2. Line of Sight through exterior walls when adjacent, except for bunker walls
3. Interior walls: soldiers can move through, but all Line of Sight is blocked




< Message edited by davidss -- 7/11/2011 4:34:36 AM >

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Post #: 44
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 11:58:00 AM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline 		The 'real walls' Elements file for LSA that Overkenshin posted appears to be based on the TLD Elements file with the one new LSA terrain type - Footbridge - tacked on at the end. Given that the Elements file data values were heavily revised for LSA, shouldnt 'real walls' be based on the LSA Elements rather than TLD Elements?

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 45
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 12:33:51 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		indeed it should...

If it is indeed the tLD data values then it should create some interesting results..... but then again you may not notice anything out of the ordinary.

I'll let Overkenshin/davidssfx comment on what they have posted.

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 7/11/2011 12:34:01 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 6:22:05 PM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

The 'real walls' Elements file for LSA that Overkenshin posted appears to be based on the TLD Elements file with the one new LSA terrain type - Footbridge - tacked on at the end. Given that the Elements file data values were heavily revised for LSA, shouldnt 'real walls' be based on the LSA Elements rather than TLD Elements?

Hi,
I'll admit the conversion from TLD to LSA is somewhat a shot in the dark, since I don't have a copy of LSA to test on. But after comparing data from both Element files, it seems there is much in common ... although there is an extra row and column.
Overkenshin wanted some things looked into, and I think the new file for LSA addresses them.

There may be differences in the model, but the Elements file seems pretty straight forward in terms of what results will be produced by certain changes in data. Testing and feedback is the only way to know for sure. Further changes can be made if necessary.







< Message edited by davidss -- 7/12/2011 3:58:45 PM >

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 47
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 8:30:45 PM   
xe5

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 5/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: davidss
I'll admit the conversion from TLD to LSA is somewhat a shot in the dark, since I don't have a copy of LSA to test on. But after comparing data from both Element files, it seems there is much in common ... although there is an extra row and column...There may be differences in the model, but the Elements file seems pretty straight forward in terms of what results will be produced by certain changes in data. Testing and feedback is the only way to know for sure...

If the verdammte forum search function werent broken I could probably reference the programmer talking about how the differences in data values between the TLD and LSA Elements files resulted from substantive changes to the way the LSA .exe handles terrain. Rolling back all of the LSA terrain to the TLD values is assuredly not the way to port "Real Walls" from TLD to LSA.

The attached image is representative of the wholesale changes the 'Real Walls' mod makes to the LSA Elements.


Attachment (1)

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 48
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 8:52:54 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		^Thanks xe5

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Post #: 49
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 10:19:13 PM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		edit




< Message edited by davidss -- 7/12/2011 3:55:46 PM >

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 50
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/11/2011 10:26:05 PM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5
Rolling back all of the LSA terrain to the TLD values is assuredly not the way to port "Real Walls" from TLD to LSA.


edit: You are right ... thanks xe5
I took your advice and started with an LSA file, then just made specific changes.



< Message edited by davidss -- 7/12/2011 4:00:17 PM >

(in reply to xe5)
Post #: 51
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 1:59:54 AM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		edit



< Message edited by davidss -- 7/12/2011 3:56:28 PM >

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 52
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 2:19:06 AM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Thankyou! Will do some testing.

(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 53
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 4:05:50 AM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		Started with LSA file for v1.1 ... but forgot to reduce hindrance to move through windows, interior walls, and few other small things.
That should do it unless someone finds an error, or thinks something else needs work.

LSA Elements file v1.2
List of changes:

Exterior walls:
1.Move through: can not enter terrain
2.Protection: values doubled (for extra soldier protection inside buildings)

Interior walls/interior doors:
1.Line of Sight: Block all, even adjacent
2.Protection: values doubled (for extra soldier protection inside buildings)
3.Move through Interior walls: 30,25,20


Exterior windows and doors:
1.Move through windows: 30,25,20
2.Move through doors: 30,18,16

Large hedgerow:
1.Half Track/Tracked: can not enter this terrain

Small hedgerow:
1.Block Line of Sight, except when adjacent

Bocage:
1.Pushed vehicle: 64 instead of 0

Sheet metal wall:
1.Changed Line of Sight to: blocked, except when adjacent

Military Equipment and Civilian Equipment:
1.Can enter terrain ... helps stop soldiers from getting stuck

Crates:
1.Can pass through, soldier low ... helps stop soldiers from getting stuck

Bunker wall;
1.Move through: Can not enter this terrain

Bunker window:
1.Protection: values halved

< Message edited by davidss -- 7/13/2011 5:40:42 PM >

(in reply to Priapus1)
Post #: 54
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 1:34:29 PM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		The major update is finnished. Davidss your file is in this zip aswel Thx hope thats ok was just making is easyer for the players


http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=60355#60355

feed back please.

elements ...davidss

soldiers

weapons

Vehicles



< Message edited by tigercub -- 7/12/2011 2:30:41 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 2:53:54 PM   
Priapus1

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Great work guys! First post updated with all new files collated into a .zip. Will create an installer very soon...

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 56
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/12/2011 3:15:26 PM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, it's ok
Thanks to you guys for the update


(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 57
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/13/2011 7:58:49 AM   
Overkenshin

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline 		priapus can you give us a overview of the changes you have made to the battle groups ?

I personally feel that the opening battles of the GC should change in style quite dramatically from the stock version.

In order to make the fights for the various bridges more enjoyable, i think that BO forces should be able to field at least 1 full roster of troops (even if they are just erstatz). Bridge timers should be longer so that a real battle should take place for the airbourne to reach the bridges in time, rather than a head long rush over open ground which in the vanilla GC is currently the only option.

I think it would be much more fun from a h2h point of view to enlarge the BO groups but keep their troops weak so thats its also really a challenge for them to hold the bridge against the tough airborne before the timer runs out

I dont think you should rush the release of this mod quite yet. Lets do some more testing and make opening turns of the GC really good before people start playing it en masse.



(in reply to davidss)
Post #: 58
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/13/2011 8:05:13 AM   
Overkenshin

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline 		It seems like you are in a hurry pri but remember if you do decide to make more changes later that means everyone will have to start their GC again.

Hold off on the official plug-in release for a few more days please. Tigercubs and Davids data needs more testing anyhow...

(in reply to Overkenshin)
Post #: 59
RE: Customized Grand Campaign - 7/13/2011 8:17:57 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		yes it does need more testing...i think it will be ok, but there be something with so many changes...

i feel the first battle should be full battle group both sides with much weaker german squads...


< Message edited by tigercub -- 7/13/2011 8:20:34 AM >

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