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RE: Tech trading needs some love

 
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RE: Tech trading needs some love - 12/13/2011 10:47:59 AM   
LeonTheNeon

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/25/2010
Status: offline 		I would also like to see a toggle to eliminate tech trading.

Having a research trade agreement in the game would be cool, but secondary to eliminating tech trading.

(in reply to MartialDoctor)
Post #: 31
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 12/13/2011 11:09:01 AM   
AminMaalouf

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		I love exploits in complex games, even more I love not to make use of them. I am very much in favor of the feature of tech-trading therefore.

This may sound a bit dialectical but it is how it is, the more choices the game allows, the more it is the game I want.


< Message edited by AminMaalouf -- 12/13/2011 11:13:16 AM >

(in reply to LeonTheNeon)
Post #: 32
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 12/31/2011 4:21:32 PM   
johnqwilson

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/28/2011
Status: offline 		Here is an idea, based on one already presented:

Why not, when agreeing to a tech trade, instead of making it instant make it something that requires a certain amount of effort from other races' science teams. So say 15% of the research points that would be required to research from scratch, are now required from "buying," as well as maybe 5% from "selling" race. In this way, it becomes like a joint project that both races have to put in implementation work.

You would run into all kinds of diplomatic situations: "We paid you 1,000,000 for this a year ago, and you have failed to make your research scientists available to help us implement this...prepare for WAR!!"

The other upside of this is the "instantness" of acquiring new tech will be gone. Seriously, a new warp drive is swapped and all ship yards have instant mastery over it on Day 1? A learning curve feature might be useful (which would be represented by requiring a fraction of research to get up to speed).

I also think crash buying has to go. If crash buying worked in real life then we would have a cure for cancer, figured out time travel and learned the jedi mind trick method of persuasion. You can't just make a bank withdrawal and have the nuclear bomb available for armament the same day. Lots of money, however, COULD speed up research significantly (say 2x 4x 8x or even 16x).

(in reply to AminMaalouf)
Post #: 33
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 12/31/2011 4:45:48 PM   
Gelatinous Cube


Posts: 696
Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline 		That's what tech crashing does. It speeds it up by x3.

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Post #: 34
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 1/1/2012 5:32:39 AM   
Cauldyth

 

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: johnqwilson
I also think crash buying has to go. If crash buying worked in real life then we would have a cure for cancer, figured out time travel and learned the jedi mind trick method of persuasion. You can't just make a bank withdrawal and have the nuclear bomb available for armament the same day. Lots of money, however, COULD speed up research significantly (say 2x 4x 8x or even 16x).

There's no crash buying in the game at all though, is there? Currently, crash research operates exactly how you propose - it simply speeds up research by a factor.

(in reply to johnqwilson)
Post #: 35
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 1/1/2012 8:31:24 AM   
Spaghetty

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/22/2010
Status: offline 		I think, if you like the option of buying techs, you can only buy a percentage of research at a rather higher cost. Also it should not be possible to buy a complete tech, only a part of it. At the max say 50%. Rest should be researched by your race. But only if prices are much higher.

For example now buying a complete tech costs 100.000 credits. In my proposal it would cost you 100.000 credits to buy 15% of it. Moddable obviously.

Also +1 for the joint research effort, should give both parties a bonus.

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Post #: 36
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 1/3/2012 11:03:44 PM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Why not have tech trading only be allowed in the techs you're currently researching. Getting a tech trade converts the research to a crash project. The cost should be proportionately less than buying a crash project outright, and the modifier is dependent on the 'like' your trading partner has for you.

This does not help the Quamenos etc - have to think on that one.

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Post #: 37
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/5/2012 3:52:07 AM   
Gizuria


Posts: 199
Joined: 4/6/2012
Status: offline 		Ah, good. I see that this issue has already been raised and discussed. I'd like to add that tech trading in Empire management games is not one of my favourite features. I played Civ IV with tech trading turned off and I like Civ V's research agreement. I try hard not to trade techs while playing myself but I read here that the AI will do it anyway?

I'd like to see every race get a bonus when adjacent to a higher tech race, which could be modified by espionage. The tech leader gets no benefit while everyone else slowly rises to their level. I play EU3 as well. One of the best 'historical' Empire management games IMO.

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 38
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/5/2012 11:11:05 AM   
Starfry

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 11/30/2009
Status: offline 		Tech trading is too derivative yet has the potential to be dynamic and drive competition between empires. Instead of giving away technology for a sum of money, change the system to allowing tech components to be sold and later licences to construct them to other empires.
However, in order to make this more interesting, there should be a random factor for each tech so they won't be similar.
A Dhayut empire may be in competition with a Securan empire over a similar shield tech ye the Dyahut's shile dis effective but bulky and the Securan can be leaner but defective in recharge rates.
It would be interesting to see empires seething as unlicense technology dips into their profits due to espoinage.

< Message edited by Starfry -- 5/5/2012 11:12:07 AM >

(in reply to Gizuria)
Post #: 39
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/5/2012 2:29:51 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		We plan to make further adjustments to tech trading in the future. This has been tweaked in each expansion, but a different system (similar to suggestions above where a tech trade creates a new research project or gives a bonus to research on a tech rather than giving you the whole tech) is where we'd like to go. Something like a research agreement also makes sense.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 40
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/5/2012 4:23:06 PM   
WiZz

 

Posts: 372
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Erik came back? Good to see...

< Message edited by WiZz -- 5/5/2012 4:31:52 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 41
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/5/2012 4:44:53 PM   
Fishers of Men


Posts: 329
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Fishers, IN USA
Status: offline 		If I remember correctly, in MoO3 there were seperate trade agreements for economics and research. Research points were exchanged with another empire to boost your scientists' ability to progress in technology.

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Post #: 42
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/6/2012 3:58:40 AM   
Gizuria


Posts: 199
Joined: 4/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We plan to make further adjustments to tech trading in the future. This has been tweaked in each expansion, but a different system (similar to suggestions above where a tech trade creates a new research project or gives a bonus to research on a tech rather than giving you the whole tech) is where we'd like to go. Something like a research agreement also makes sense.

Regards,

- Erik


That's excellent news. Until that happens, I'm just going to have to restrain myself.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 43
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/6/2012 11:45:38 AM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishers of Men

If I remember correctly, in MoO3 there were seperate trade agreements for economics and research. Research points were exchanged with another empire to boost your scientists' ability to progress in technology.


I did not like the system.If was a no brainer that everybody just spammed after a turn.Some sort of join project on a tech is more of a choice and a better fit in my view.

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Post #: 44
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/6/2012 1:40:07 PM   
Carewolf

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		I support changing tech trading into buying the tech partially and crashing the rest. It needs to be balanced with buying a research-crash out-right (or maybe buying crash research without buying it from another race should be disabled?).

This way it would work in a similar way to disassembling tech. Because what is tech trade really? You get access to some examples and some documents. The examples are like disassembled tech, and the documents just helps you figure out the rest faster than normal, hence the crash research.

It would still be very valuable to trade, the triple-research speed means you still get the tech soon, but just not instantaneous, and you can still buy access to race specific techs this way making Zenox and Quemeno still sit on valuable trade goods.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 45
RE: Tech trading needs some love - 5/7/2012 2:41:31 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		'Buying' a tech could work more akin to making a research agreement...My empire and empire X agree to cooperatively research a tech, both empires must provide 50% of the funding, but both get a (double?) crash rate of research on it...or something to that effect.

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