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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

 
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RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:06:56 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

You can probably get away without a unit in Brest-Litovsk as the German units facing it are too slow to make it to Minsk or the Ukraine in 1 impulse. Lvov I still like defending because it adds an impulse before the German forces in the south get to the Ukraine steppes. This could matter if March/April is short & bad weather or if you start off in May/June.

In fact I think the defence (or not) of those two cities and a strong defence of Odessa are the only major points of disagreement Centuur & I have on the USSR defence.


I agree with Centuur about Odesssa, it's not worth defending, better have a stronger front on the Dnepr trying to stop or delay the germans there.

_____________________________

Michel Desjardins,
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1231
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:13:46 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The crappy FTR are also good for posting on hero cities (Kiev, Vitebsk, Odessa & the like) to attempt to delay the German attacks by fighting off ground strikes. This costs the Axis air missions to bring up both FTR and LND in range, uses up Axis FTR which could rebase to keep up with the forward lines (to protect against USSR ground strikes). It may also cost the Axis an impulse or two extra to reduce the city if they wait to attack until they fire off a second round of ground strikes.

On the other hand it pretty much guarantees 2 bp lost for the pilot (the crap FTR being free at setup and best off scrapped upon destruction) which the USSR is very unlikely to make good on in 1941 vs no losses if the FTR are based in the rear or pulled off the map.

Not in an oil game. A stored oil is too precious to put in a hero city for the Germans to capture or strat bomb (after the FTR gets flipped) and then giggle. Put it in a hero city and it flys once. You can't even re-org it to harvest the pilot.


If the Germans attack the city in the same turn that the FTR flew (whether on the same or a subsequent impulse) then your objection does not come into play.

With the exception of late-turn ground strikes, if the Germans are willing to wait until the next turn to attack a city just to get the pleasure of seeing FTR not re-flip, that's a USSR win in my books as those units could be pushing forward somewhere else.

I would prefer using those low range FTR's around the Persian-USSR border, since that might give the USSR an immobile front in that area. Also: I don't like to start wasting Russian FTR's this way. It is a one moment thing only, and for that the USSR did spent 4 BP's? Only in a situation where the USSR is forced into slowing the Germans down (in case of a long summer with fine weather followed by a S/O with a lots of fine weather) I would opt to use this kind of desperate measures. But in the first couple of impulses of war? That's too early for such things...


2 bp. The USSR started with those FTR for free, so at most they'd lose the bp spent on the pilot (since the crappy FTR would be scrapped I assume).

Whether or not to undertake such a things depends on cost vs benefit. As you have noted re: the Caucasus there is obviously benefit to using the FTR elsewhere for the time being (until the Axis get some better FTR in the area).

Having a FTR sitting in a hero city does not force the USSR to commit it to fight the Axis.

If it buys an impulse of time while the Axis bring up FTR to counter it, and then another impulse or two if they have to do 1-2 rounds of ground strikes, and then dies gloriously when the hero city falls, that's 2 bp well spent IMO.

Or it could buy an impulse of time while the Axis bring up FTR to counter it then fly away to rinse and repeat somewhere else.

It all depends on how much time & activity limits the USSR thinks it can make the Axis waste.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 1232
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:15:41 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Just another random thought about why I prefer not to make a M/A '41 attack, especially mid- to late-turn: if I do push through Bessarabia, suddenly Germany has units in Russia, and up goes the Soviet production multiplier. If I make an attack on any of those units (and I think Bessarabia counts for both of these), up it goes again, doubling Soviet production. If I'm going to do that, I need to be fairly certain of gaining some significant benefits.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1233
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:21:22 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I wouldn't be so worried about that. As long as you kill more bps than the USSR gains from the production bump it's probably worth it.

In March/April you're probably not seizing any factories but you might get the 3 Ukrainian resources, so let's assume the USSR uses 3 oil for reorg/saving and produces 24 pp; with the production bump taking them from 1 to 1.5 production multiple that's 12 bp over their expected production. Kill 13+ bp? Done.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1234
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:36:09 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Hold on to your hats, everyone!

End of Turn Roll: 7 (60%)

Impulse: 15
Weather: 4

This ought to change the scenery a little bit. I already know what action choices I'm going to take with the Axis, though I haven't moved that far ahead yet:

Germany: Air
Italy: Combined
Japan: Land

Germany gets to rebase everything into "perfect" positions, or better ones, anyway, plus they can try to ground strike those pesky Indian forces in the Sinai.
Italy gets to send out those reorganized TRS to pick up 2 more German units for the Persian front, and they might have an attack on those pesky Indians.
Japan needs the rail moves to get troops in place for upcoming invasions.

Now, an 80% chance of ending the turn has been known to fail. In fact, I already rolled a '10' in a previous impulse this turn. But the Allies will probably end up at +2 on the track. Do they dare allow the Axis a double move at this point?

Here's the actual weather implications:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/19/2012 9:38:13 PM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1235
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:42:11 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Just want to throw something else out there that I mentioned earlier, but didn't get much of a positive response to . . .

If the first impulse weather for M/A '41 is not good for starting a war, I'm almost certain that a Combined Action is what Germany will want to take. In this case, it isn't to get the SUB fleet out there, but to send that AMPH loaded with a white print 7-3 INF into the Baltic Sea (and to fix any air rebasing that needs fixing). Then, if I do end up with a good opportunity for starting the war in a later impulse . . . Surprise! . . . an invasion in the Baltics, behind the lines. The Soviets aren't going to like that one bit.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1236
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:44:03 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Remember that the reserves arrive disorganized. They won't be able to move and they will give bonuses to the German attacks. Leningrad is a good place to occupy with reserves. I usually use Minsk and Pskov as speed bumps with a single reserve unit each. You will find that you have a lot of reserves to place on the map but not many good hexes for them. They are very useful in the second turn of the attack, but not so much so during the first turn.

The only reserves I plan on placing in forward positions are the 7-4 Siberian INF and the 7-4 INF, both in Chisinau. That's 14 factors that can be attacked from 2 hexes maximum until the other nearby stacks are dealt with, and I don't think the Germans have the forces to overcome that on the first turn of war.

No. Do not put your best units in the front line. The Germans can bypass them and mop them up later with wimp units. You will not be able to move them ever. So you will be losing some of your best units on the map for what? Railing out a single factory from Odessa?

Wouldn't you prefer to have them Kiev, Smolensk, Dneproxxxxosk? They would have a decent chance of surviving until the second turn, especially if the Germans attack in winter.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1237
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:53:07 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		While I don't think an amphibious invasion into the Baltics will make a positive contribution to the German offensive, I also don't think it will hurt it. So by all means undertake it and we'll see what happens.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1238
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:54:11 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Remember that the reserves arrive disorganized. They won't be able to move and they will give bonuses to the German attacks. Leningrad is a good place to occupy with reserves. I usually use Minsk and Pskov as speed bumps with a single reserve unit each. You will find that you have a lot of reserves to place on the map but not many good hexes for them. They are very useful in the second turn of the attack, but not so much so during the first turn.

The only reserves I plan on placing in forward positions are the 7-4 Siberian INF and the 7-4 INF, both in Chisinau. That's 14 factors that can be attacked from 2 hexes maximum until the other nearby stacks are dealt with, and I don't think the Germans have the forces to overcome that on the first turn of war.

No. Do not put your best units in the front line. The Germans can bypass them and mop them up later with wimp units. You will not be able to move them ever. So you will be losing some of your best units on the map for what? Railing out a single factory from Odessa?

Wouldn't you prefer to have them Kiev, Smolensk, Dneproxxxxosk? They would have a decent chance of surviving until the second turn, especially if the Germans attack in winter.

I don't need to anymore. I figured it was my best chance to hold Chisinau. I've already committed 5 units to get that Odessa factory railed out. If the Axis gets the first impulse, and if the weather is good enough, Chisnau must be held until that factory can rail out and the screening units can retreat in an organized fashion. If Chisinau falls, that means a large number of units end up OOS, and at least one of them will probably have to flip to put them back in supply . . . unless I use the dinky INF Division in Odessa to do that. Even if I do, the screening units need to retreat safely, and that's made more difficult if I don't defend Chisnau with strong units. I'm kind of short on strong units at the moment.

But things have now changed. The chances for good weather just dropped by 10% and that means I might have an extra turn's worth of reinforcements to use instead of the Reserves.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1239
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 9:58:49 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The crappy FTR are also good for posting on hero cities (Kiev, Vitebsk, Odessa & the like) to attempt to delay the German attacks by fighting off ground strikes. This costs the Axis air missions to bring up both FTR and LND in range, uses up Axis FTR which could rebase to keep up with the forward lines (to protect against USSR ground strikes). It may also cost the Axis an impulse or two extra to reduce the city if they wait to attack until they fire off a second round of ground strikes.

On the other hand it pretty much guarantees 2 bp lost for the pilot (the crap FTR being free at setup and best off scrapped upon destruction) which the USSR is very unlikely to make good on in 1941 vs no losses if the FTR are based in the rear or pulled off the map.

Not in an oil game. A stored oil is too precious to put in a hero city for the Germans to capture or strat bomb (after the FTR gets flipped) and then giggle. Put it in a hero city and it flys once. You can't even re-org it to harvest the pilot.


If the Germans attack the city in the same turn that the FTR flew (whether on the same or a subsequent impulse) then your objection does not come into play.

With the exception of late-turn ground strikes, if the Germans are willing to wait until the next turn to attack a city just to get the pleasure of seeing FTR not re-flip, that's a USSR win in my books as those units could be pushing forward somewhere else.

I think we must disagree on what constitutes a "hero city" then. The definition I know is one that gets bypassed because the Germans are afraid of flipping the number of units it will take to atttack it at good odds. And once bypassed, the FTR flies once if there's no oil stored in the city.

A good use for those types of FTRs is to protect the CP in the Black Sea (or the Caspian) where they can hold their own against axis NAV.

The unstated point of a lot of posts about the weak USSR fighters is that they should never be in the air where a German fighter can get to them. Definitely against a German TAC with poor A2A strength. But otherwise they cover things in the rear (against paradrops, the Caspian Sea, the Baku front, ...).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1240
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 10:02:31 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

While I don't think an amphibious invasion into the Baltics will make a positive contribution to the German offensive, I also don't think it will hurt it. So by all means undertake it and we'll see what happens.

It's an annoyance-factor thing, that's all. Take away Estonia, and then start putting the ZOC on Leningrad. The Soviets will have to rail the Odessa factory out on the first impulse after the DOW and then the Leningrad factory on the next. It makes the Soviets do things the way Germany wants them done.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1241
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 10:38:09 PM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The crappy FTR are also good for posting on hero cities (Kiev, Vitebsk, Odessa & the like) to attempt to delay the German attacks by fighting off ground strikes. This costs the Axis air missions to bring up both FTR and LND in range, uses up Axis FTR which could rebase to keep up with the forward lines (to protect against USSR ground strikes). It may also cost the Axis an impulse or two extra to reduce the city if they wait to attack until they fire off a second round of ground strikes.

On the other hand it pretty much guarantees 2 bp lost for the pilot (the crap FTR being free at setup and best off scrapped upon destruction) which the USSR is very unlikely to make good on in 1941 vs no losses if the FTR are based in the rear or pulled off the map.

Not in an oil game. A stored oil is too precious to put in a hero city for the Germans to capture or strat bomb (after the FTR gets flipped) and then giggle. Put it in a hero city and it flys once. You can't even re-org it to harvest the pilot.


If the Germans attack the city in the same turn that the FTR flew (whether on the same or a subsequent impulse) then your objection does not come into play.

With the exception of late-turn ground strikes, if the Germans are willing to wait until the next turn to attack a city just to get the pleasure of seeing FTR not re-flip, that's a USSR win in my books as those units could be pushing forward somewhere else.

I think we must disagree on what constitutes a "hero city" then. The definition I know is one that gets bypassed because the Germans are afraid of flipping the number of units it will take to atttack it at good odds. And once bypassed, the FTR flies once if there's no oil stored in the city.

A good use for those types of FTRs is to protect the CP in the Black Sea (or the Caspian) where they can hold their own against axis NAV.

The unstated point of a lot of posts about the weak USSR fighters is that they should never be in the air where a German fighter can get to them. Definitely against a German TAC with poor A2A strength. But otherwise they cover things in the rear (against paradrops, the Caspian Sea, the Baku front, ...).

The Persian front isn't likely to face attack the first turn of war, so I moved 2 more of the weak FTR into cities. Those, plus the Leningrad FTR will come off the map in the next reinforcement step. If I haven't managed to build better fighters in the next turn or two, I can always put these back on the map at Baku . . . and it's actually probably more efficient than trying to rebase them.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1242
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 10:38:54 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		You will have to fight for Talinin, it will be worth 1 even with surprise.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1243
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 11:07:01 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You will have to fight for Talinin, it will be worth 1 even with surprise.

Yup, you're right. Forgot that. So I'll take the hex next to it instead. Or anywhere that will let me cause trouble for the Soviets.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1244
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 11:55:40 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		If you're going to land, land in the forest hex east of Talinin. Prevents reinforcing of the city by rail and by land (from Riga - except in snow when the swamp is forest).

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1245
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/19/2012 11:58:41 PM   
Red Prince


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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

If the Axis forces could conceivably defeat 2- or 3-unit stacks in Cernauti and Chisinau on the surprise impulse, then both cities should have single cheap units to defend them.

The forces there at present don't quite look up to that task (1 HQ and 4-5 corps), so if it stays that way, I suggest the USSR doing the following:
- 1 cheap unit in Cernauti
- strong force in Chisinau
- 1 cheap, 4-factor unit in the hex southwest of Chisinau - unless my maths are off this unit cannot be overrun even during the surprise impulse so it will keep Chisinau from being encircled
- the force in Chisinau, unless it is all disorganized, can withdraw except for another cheap speedbump

Re-examining things, I finally see what Steve is getting at here.

On the right side, you see what I have for units already and where they are placed. On the left (if I understand the point the 2 of you were trying to make) is what I should try to get in place instead.

Somewhere, several pages ago, someone said I should try to screen Odessa with a few strong stacks in front of Chisinau. But the point is to make Chisinau tough to crack, and only have enough factors in the other two hexes to prevent an overrun that might put Odessa at risk.

There will be a problem with Odessa. I have a 6-4 INF coming in at the start of the turn that I can place there, but a 2nd unit will have to be one of the reserves unless I'm absolutely certain I can withdraw one of these other units into the city. The other problem I have here is that I'll need at least 2 impulses to get this done and start putting the Persian force in place, too.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 1246
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 12:51:54 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I do not understand why so many units are commited to the Romanian front just to rail one factory out of Odessa. One cheap unit in Cernauti and one cheap unit in Chisinau and 2 decent units (10+ in defence) in Odessa should be enough to keep the rail line open to rail out the factory. In order to stop this Germany must attack Odessa from one hex on the suprise impulse and capture the city.

It is a gamble because Germany can attack and capture the city but as USSR I like the thought of Germany making assaults on the suprise impulse. And to get decent odds Germany must commit air power. to the attack.


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1247
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 12:59:51 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		stopped in to correct the logistics in Persia ... only three HQs going overland, using Baghdad, will get you to both hexes of the Turkish border, not 4, though without being able to use HQ support on that 2nd hex. your Staff is plenty big and competent, and what Orm just said.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1248
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:27:51 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The crappy FTR are also good for posting on hero cities (Kiev, Vitebsk, Odessa & the like) to attempt to delay the German attacks by fighting off ground strikes. This costs the Axis air missions to bring up both FTR and LND in range, uses up Axis FTR which could rebase to keep up with the forward lines (to protect against USSR ground strikes). It may also cost the Axis an impulse or two extra to reduce the city if they wait to attack until they fire off a second round of ground strikes.

On the other hand it pretty much guarantees 2 bp lost for the pilot (the crap FTR being free at setup and best off scrapped upon destruction) which the USSR is very unlikely to make good on in 1941 vs no losses if the FTR are based in the rear or pulled off the map.

Not in an oil game. A stored oil is too precious to put in a hero city for the Germans to capture or strat bomb (after the FTR gets flipped) and then giggle. Put it in a hero city and it flys once. You can't even re-org it to harvest the pilot.


If the Germans attack the city in the same turn that the FTR flew (whether on the same or a subsequent impulse) then your objection does not come into play.

With the exception of late-turn ground strikes, if the Germans are willing to wait until the next turn to attack a city just to get the pleasure of seeing FTR not re-flip, that's a USSR win in my books as those units could be pushing forward somewhere else.

I think we must disagree on what constitutes a "hero city" then. The definition I know is one that gets bypassed because the Germans are afraid of flipping the number of units it will take to atttack it at good odds. And once bypassed, the FTR flies once if there's no oil stored in the city.

A good use for those types of FTRs is to protect the CP in the Black Sea (or the Caspian) where they can hold their own against axis NAV.

The unstated point of a lot of posts about the weak USSR fighters is that they should never be in the air where a German fighter can get to them. Definitely against a German TAC with poor A2A strength. But otherwise they cover things in the rear (against paradrops, the Caspian Sea, the Baku front, ...).

The Persian front isn't likely to face attack the first turn of war, so I moved 2 more of the weak FTR into cities. Those, plus the Leningrad FTR will come off the map in the next reinforcement step. If I haven't managed to build better fighters in the next turn or two, I can always put these back on the map at Baku . . . and it's actually probably more efficient than trying to rebase them.

I really like the idea of taking the fighters off the map and then bringing them back in a different city the next turn.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1249
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:42:40 AM   
morgil


Posts: 114
Joined: 5/9/2008
From: Bergen, Norway
Status: offline 		You should make an estimate on how fast the Axis units can be in position in Persia. Subtract two impulses, and thats your timeframe to be ready there.
I dunno how far they have come, but it looks like it might take a while for them to get in position.
The main reason you want the best HQ somewhere more central. like the forest east of Kharkov, is that you can use it to flip up the 5 best reserves, and put them to use imediately.
If there are italian bombrs on the scene, you might even consider putting it in Voronezh.
Get all divs out of the way, they just make the attack easier.

But its looking better, and your getting the idea so thats good

Now, there is one more thing to consider..should you move a unit down to Busher and burn up the oil fields there ?
Actually, should you had dowed Iraq just as the Italians was looking to align it, and done the same there ?
I think I would have.

PS
Can I buy the game as is ?
$100 is fair price yes ?


< Message edited by morgil -- 1/20/2012 1:44:26 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 1250
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:45:46 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I do not understand why so many units are commited to the Romanian front just to rail one factory out of Odessa. One cheap unit in Cernauti and one cheap unit in Chisinau and 2 decent units (10+ in defence) in Odessa should be enough to keep the rail line open to rail out the factory. In order to stop this Germany must attack Odessa from one hex on the suprise impulse and capture the city.

It is a gamble because Germany can attack and capture the city but as USSR I like the thought of Germany making assaults on the suprise impulse. And to get decent odds Germany must commit air power. to the attack.


I agree. All the units placed to defend Odessa will be destroyed or bypassed in the first 2 impulses of the German attack (i.e., before the USSR gets its second impulse). Those 3 movers aren't going anywhere fast. And there are a lot of clear hexes between Bessarabia and the Dnieper.

Something with a ZOC in Cernauti and Chisinau. 2 units in Odessa (1 is a reserve).

You could clean out this entire front and position these units along the Dnieper, using 3 reserve units to populate the 3 cities.

All these clear hexes you see here are death traps. Supply is hard to come by and the German bombers can hammer them (not the Stukas, but the long range bombers). The black print units become disorganized, the Germans ooze through the cracks in the line and the armor overruns them. This is one of the primary threats of the German armor stacks.

Remember that you will not be able to rail out a factory until the Germans have entered Russian proper. If they just move up to the Polish border, none of the Russian factories can rail move.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 1251
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:48:19 AM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1252
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:55:38 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morgil

You should make an estimate on how fast the Axis units can be in position in Persia. Subtract two impulses, and thats your timeframe to be ready there.
I dunno how far they have come, but it looks like it might take a while for them to get in position.
The main reason you want the best HQ somewhere more central. like the forest east of Kharkov, is that you can use it to flip up the 5 best reserves, and put them to use imediately.
If there are italian bombrs on the scene, you might even consider putting it in Voronezh.
Get all divs out of the way, they just make the attack easier.

But its looking better, and your getting the idea so thats good

Now, there is one more thing to consider..should you move a unit down to Busher and burn up the oil fields there ?
Actually, should you had dowed Iraq just as the Italians was looking to align it, and done the same there ?
I think I would have.

PS
Can I buy the game as is ?
$100 is fair price yes ?


I am doing my da**est to get this released ASAP. Pricing is up to Matrix/Slitherine.

If the game has too many bugs when released (I would argue that 1 is too many), no one is going to be happy - least of all me. But many people are working on getting it running smoothly and identifying/fixing any strange noises coming out of the engine. We are not wasting time buffing and polishing chrome. [That wagging finger belongs to my wife.]

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to morgil)
Post #: 1253
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 1:56:42 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

Good point!

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 1254
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 6:02:06 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Bessarabia is part of the USSR home country (until no hexes remain under USSR control). If the Germans enter it, it's factory railing time.

Good point!

This is why I said earlier that I hesitate to start Barbarossa in M/A '41, because with my revised defense of Bessarabia, it's going to be difficult to take both cities and also claim every hex in Bessarabia during a short, unpredictable-weather turn. If I can't do enough damage to the Soviets before they get to Production, they'll have something just short of 30 BP to spend instead of 17.

It's been suggested that if I can kill the difference in the first turn, than it's a victory for Germany for that turn, but I still think Germany should aim to kill off as much as they can on the 1st turn of war, attempt to get Russia to rail 3+ factories, and interfere with resources. I'd also like to be able to co-ordinate the attack with a Japanese DOW, so that the 4 Siberian Resources can either be taken away or blocked from transport, making the doubled-multiplier less useful.

_____________________________

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-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 1255
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 7:31:16 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Germany managed a Ground Strike on 1 of the 2 units in the Sinai, and HQ-A Graziani added HQ Support an a "lucky" roll of '1' to take advantage of the Fine weather in this part of the world:




And the results:

Attack on Egypt [83, 61]: Blitz, Fractional Odds .448 (Yes), Roll = 4+1 = 5 = -/1R (MIL destroyed, INF destroyed with no place to Retreat, attackers disorganized)

With the ability to reposition 2 units into the desert mountain hex east of the enemy, this Blitz attack certainly wasn't a sure thing, but with Ground Support available to counter the CW Shore Bombardment, and a good HQ Support roll, Italy can expect a Retreat or better result 70% of the time. With a good Fractional Odds roll, that improves to 80% chances of a Retreat or better. The key here is the units in the deser mountains. The ZOC they creat means an R result is as good as a kill.

Turns out the roll was 1 short of keeping these units organized. That's going to cost a little extra Oil, but it got the job done. It may not be a terrific trade-off for the high probability of increasing the Allies +1 on the Initiative Track, but winning this battle frees up both Italian HQs to help the Germans set up the supply chain they'll need in Iraq. That makes this a useful impulse in my opinion.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/20/2012 7:32:16 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1256
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 7:53:59 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Someone asked earlier about how long it would take to set up the land supply route to attack into Persia. Well, it looks like it can be done in 4 impulses, so that gives the Soviets some time to prepare defenses.
-----
Edit: And they are going to have to be M/A '41 impulses, because the turn just ended on another '1' roll. Here's what the weather looked like during this brutal turn. The Allies will be up to +2 on the Initiative track, too.

I'm going to try to get some more sleep before completing the End of Turn sequence, but you can expect a report in another 6-8 hours or so.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/20/2012 8:02:45 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1257
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 8:11:01 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, I lied: 2 more posts. First, the units destroyed in J/F '41 (Turn #9):




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1258
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 8:23:11 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		And the 2nd post . . . this is why I wanted to get it up before I go back to sleep, because I think it will generate a lot of talk. Pass War Appropriations at the end of J/F '41 ???

All I can say is that Japan better damn well be ready to make some DOWs soon, or this "Axis Fantasy" is going to rapidly become an "Axis Nightmare".

As for something to debate, personally I think this makes it much more important to wait until M/J '41 to begin the offensive on all fronts. The USA might have a shot at a low-odds DOW in M/A '41, but there's not much they get out of it other than 10 extra BP and the ability to avoid Surprise by Japan. If I can manage to conquer China (or maybe it should surender now?) in M/A '41, get lucky and win the 1st impulse in M/J '41, DOW everybody in sight . . . well, maybe I can keep US Entry high and Tension relatively low for a few more turns.

Of course, on the other hand, Germany needs to take out the Soviets ASAP. This certianly changes things.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1259
RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) - 1/20/2012 11:57:32 AM   
Red Prince


Posts: 3686
Joined: 4/8/2011
From: Bangor, Maine, USA
Status: offline 		Chose the option, moved a chit (a '1' from the Ge/It Entry to Tension Pools), and here's what you get:
-----
Edit: Now I'm having questions. A Chinese surrender might actually improve the odds for a USA DOW on Japan (if it gets the 1st impulse) to 50%, definitely a risk worth taking. But, with only 3 chits in the Ja Tension Pool, unless it's the '1' that is removed (assuming a failed DOW), it will be some time before another DOW can be attempted on Japan. Without a Chinese surrender, I don't know that I'd try a DOW at 40% odds.

And, again, with the Surrender, there's a lot of units that Japan will lose until at war again, and then they'll be potentially out of position. What to do, what to do . . .

If I'm counting it correctly, 14 Japanese units will be instantly removed from the map (Reserves and MIL units). Of these, roughly 9 can re-appear for free, but the reset have to be purchased again. If China doesn't surrender to Japan, this may be enough motivation to get Japan to DOW earlier than it would like, just to keep its units on the map.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 1/20/2012 12:15:39 PM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)
Post #: 1260
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