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RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 5:19:06 PM

SLAAKMAN

Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline

TerminUS,

quote:

This is beginning to smell like the House Un-American Activities Commitee. Remember that one? A black page in US history if ever there was one.

The "black page in US history" occured only when HUAC was dismantled. But I'll get it running again soon.

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
� Winston Churchill

(in reply to planner 3)

Post #: 31

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 5:29:36 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie, but by then Frank and Dodd were in total control and they blocked all attempts to fix the problem. Everything that happened after that is a symptom of their failed social justice agenda.

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it. And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

Jim

_____________________________

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)

Post #: 32

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 5:41:39 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

Yeah. I think if you are too big to fail then you are too big to exist. We can agree on that Vinnie, but I doubt you actually think that way. Like I said before, I can understand as sympathize with people exercising their rights and airing their frustrations. It's just that most of these people are complete dolts bent on destroying a nation. Don't take my word for it, listen to theirs.

Nice try at the moral relevance Vince. It is not working. Your true colors are starting to show. Nice shade of red btw. My niece pays no taxes yet gets tons of services through the state and federal government and is eating better than a lot of people I know with $500 in food stamps A MONTH. She is a self entitled lazy brat who passes up jobs because they are below her. She also gets a REFUND every year!!! A refund from what?

Should others come along and destroy what is hers? Should I? I have been broke more than once in my life. Maybe I should have unleashed my anger at those who have more than I did. Maybe attack some welfare rats who refuse to work but are eating good. They are such the bourgeoisie. Your argument seems to justify the means to get to certain ends.

I'm not sure what your laws are in Italy, but here we have what has been called separation of church and state (although it doesn't appear in the Constitution)therefore the government has no claims on the coffers of said church. You cannot have it both ways. Maybe there are other ways to vent your anger towards people of faith. Time will tell.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 33

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 5:51:47 PM

SLAAKMAN

Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline

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Post #: 34

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:05:17 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

As an example of the housing scam, my sister in law got a home loan for 180,000 bucks yet only made 32,000 per year and had 82,000 in un secured credit card debt. So don't tell me the law was not screwed up. I could not believe she got that loan. No way I thought. Sure she made all her credit card payments, the bare minimum. of course 1 year after she got the home loan she filed bankruptcy and wiped out all debt except the house. That was how the housing bubble got started. Giving loans to people that should never have gotten them in the first place.

My credit sucks because I pay cash for basically everything. I got one credit card with a high limit that sits in the safe for emergencies. Every other year or so they send me a use it or lose it letter, I go down and charge 400 bucks on it and then pay it off in full before the grace period ends. Not getting me that way. I could not get a home loan years ago since I had no rent (was active duty in the barracks at the time) and no other bills except car insurance. My wife bought the house and we paid it off in 5 years. Ate the payments right out from under the bank. Had to put my paid off house for collateral on my new house to be built. Same bank. Bought wife a new car, paid 6 months on it and then paid it off in full prior to that with same bank. Had 20,000 in checking and another 35,000 in savings, but still was told no home loan without collateral. So this time, built house, and paid it off within 1 year. Not giving them a dime in interest.

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)

Post #: 35

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:06:25 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

More occupoop protestors. This time showing their antisemitism fervor.

thinks everything should be free

This one holding signs of Intifada...yeah , just concerned citizens

More compassionate occupoopers

Run them Jews out of this country

Yeah vinnie, just your average American

_____________________________

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 36

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:14:05 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

Disgusting all the way around. Sad what my country is becoming with this "everything for free mentality".

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 37

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:25:51 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

I have to add this occupooper too.

Crapping on a squad car. The 99%? More like the .00001% I hope.

How bout a good ole sing song?
What this world needs

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Post #: 38

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:32:19 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie, but by then Frank and Dodd were in total control and they blocked all attempts to fix the problem. Everything that happened after that is a symptom of their failed social justice agenda.

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it. And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

Jim

Bravo, well put and without rancor. Great post and spot on.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 39

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:40:34 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

I see this thread being locked very shortly.

I myself don't understand the American fear of the "commie" as to me that's a thing of the past. The height of which where the McCarthy trails and the cold war.

I also have a view that's considered rather UNPC (nothing todo with communism).

However I certainly don't agree with the idea behind burning flags. You may not be happy with the state of your country but the Flag is historical and the events now are just a another phase of the history of your country.

I also think people need to realise that if your country or economic system constantly advertises a lifestyle and is all about obtaining goods then everyone is going to feel entitled to it. Why shouldn't they? There is alot of reasons why society here and in the US is the way it is and commercialism and the cult of the new and the commodity has alot to answer for. You can't advertise goods on TV allday long and not end up with a population who wants more and more and wants the new shiney thing that they've been told will enrich their life...I can't blame anyone as in away they've been brainwashed to a point. Anyone read about the reaction of governments when the TV was invented...they where very happy with it's possibilties by all accounts..

< Message edited by wodin -- 1/30/2012 6:44:16 PM >

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(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 40

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 6:50:23 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd say that a fundamental building block of a democracy is that people can be morons like those clowns in Oakland without disappearing into some Gulag somewhere. Sure, arrest them for theft and vandalism, but that's it.

Oh, and about burning the flag? I say burn it. I've got two more you can burn. Go ahead. It's a piece of cloth. You can NEVER EVER burn what it stands for, no matter how hard you try.

Very well said Wise Bald One. Sometimes I need others to point out to me what is still good here in America. But I might add that most of these people probably wouldn't afford others the same consideration given the chance. I hope I am wrong about that one, but I don't think so.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 41

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 7:25:41 PM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Puinishment does not mean " end up in the Gulag"... so civil dissobedience should and does carry a consequence..
My first gut reaction is.. hang them high.. but an over reaction methinks! lol

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 42

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 7:52:29 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

Here comes Erik with key!

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Post #: 43

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 8:38:32 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

Doomie said it best, "They don't have to love the country where they are living, but they should respect it."

I bet King George said the same thing about John Adams and that "gang".

These guys are nothing like John Adams who represented individual liberty and extremely limited government. They are the complete polar opposite of John Adams.

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Post #: 44

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 8:49:43 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Here comes Erik with key!

Well I hope not. My post should only infuriate those who would attack the police and destroy taxpayer property. I definitely don't want to upset my host at all. To be honest, I personally cannot stand politicians of any stripe. Heck, the only person that I know I will vote for is our very fine Governor Jay Nixon who happens to be a Blue Dog Democrat. But this isn't political as much as it is about current events.....and flag burning.

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Post #: 45

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 8:53:14 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

I guess someone knew something in 2003...

Just watching Dumb and Dumberer and the Japanese girls says "I just want to learn about America" - and the guy says "Girl - there's nothing more American than doing nothing and getting away with it"

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Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)

Post #: 46

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 9:10:55 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I guess someone knew something in 2003...

Just watching Dumb and Dumberer and the Japanese girls says "I just want to learn about America" - and the guy says "Girl - there's nothing more American than doing nothing and getting away with it"

Ahaha. Yes indeed, and the misguided bums of OWS are doing nothing. Well they are breaking some laws and being leeches upon society.

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(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 47

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 9:51:04 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie, but by then Frank and Dodd were in total control and they blocked all attempts to fix the problem. Everything that happened after that is a symptom of their failed social justice agenda.

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it. And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

Jim

Warspite1

Jim D Burns, imo it is a little more complicated than that. If you are a politician its easy to bash the bankers if your a banker its easy to blame the politicians. Fact is, we were ALL to blame - and while there were loads of individual reasons (and a lot of good people got burned), greed was chief amongst them. Regardless of what what the politicians decided to do, it still took a long chain of events to get where we got to:

- the homowner (or prospective homeowner) deciding to take out a mortgage/re-mortgage they knew they couldn't afford
- the broker, knowing the client couldn't afford it but wanted his commission, so turned a blind eye
- the valuer knowing he only gets to stay on the mortgage company's books if he provides "friendly" valuations
- the mortgage company that needs to increase volume massively because competition is squeezing his margins to the bone
- the bankers allowing looser terms to the mortgage companies so they get the chance to securitise the company's product
- the rating agencies getting paid by the client so not wanting to rock the boat
- the investors placing too much reliance on the agencies rather than actually doing their own diligence
- the hedge funds buying ever more sub investment grade bonds and taking more risk because margins were being squeezed
- the regulators having no idea what the hell was going on, and not having the balls and/or the inclination to dig too deep
- the government not wanting to rock the boat because there is an election coming up

Ywp, we are all to blame.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 48

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:02:12 PM

Vincenzo_Beretta

Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians

...Like the congressional Republicans who joined Clinton in repealing the Glass-Steagal Act with the "Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999"...

quote:

who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

A delusional belief which is made even more funny by the fact that *the Socialists themselves* decried this policy as back as 1999, noting, correctly, how it would have resulted in an orgy of irresponsibility by Wall Street and some titanic bailouts.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/nov1999/bank-n01.shtml

The Wall Street Journal celebrated the agreement to end such restrictions with an editorial declaring that the banks had been unfairly scapegoated for the Great Depression. The headline of one Journal article detailing the impact of the proposed law declared, "Finally, 1929 Begins to Fade."

This comment underscores the greatest irony in the banking deregulation bill. Legislation first adopted to save American capitalism from the consequences of the 1929 Wall Street Crash is being abolished just at the point where the conditions are emerging for an even greater speculative financial collapse. The enormous volatility in the stock exchange in recent months has been accompanied by repeated warnings that stocks are grossly overvalued, with some computer and Internet stocks selling at prices 100 times earnings or even greater.

And there is a much more recent experience than 1929 to serve as a cautionary tale. A financial deregulation bill was passed in the early 1980s under the Reagan administration, lifting many restrictions on the activities of savings and loan associations, which had previously been limited primarily to the home-loan market. The result was an orgy of speculation, profiteering and outright plundering of assets, culminating in collapse and the biggest financial bailout in US history, costing the federal government more than $500 billion. The repetition of such events in the much larger banking and securities markets would be beyond the scope of any federal bailout.

quote:

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie

...Exp. when they already hadn't a single clue from what had happened with Enron and Worldcom...

quote:

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it.

So, let's console yourselves by decrying UHC as "SOCIALIST!", the only small relief from this ugly concept you can get, since when WS needs it they get all the socialism they want - and bonuses.

quote:

And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

And your "democracy" is going to provide one... when?

_____________________________

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 49

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:03:10 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie, but by then Frank and Dodd were in total control and they blocked all attempts to fix the problem. Everything that happened after that is a symptom of their failed social justice agenda.

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it. And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

Jim

Warspite1

Jim D Burns, imo it is a little more complicated than that. If you are a politician its easy to bash the bankers if your a banker its easy to blame the politicians. Fact is, we were ALL to blame - and while there were loads of individual reasons (and a lot of good people got burned), greed was chief amongst them. Regardless of what what the politicians decided to do, it still took a long chain of events to get where we got to:

- the homowner (or prospective homeowner) deciding to take out a mortgage/re-mortgage they knew they couldn't afford
- the broker, knowing the client couldn't afford it but wanted his commission, so turned a blind eye
- the valuer knowing he only gets to stay on the mortgage company's books if he provides "friendly" valuations
- the mortgage company that needs to increase volume massively because competition is squeezing his margins to the bone
- the bankers allowing looser terms to the mortgage companies so they get the chance to securitise the company's product
- the rating agencies getting paid by the client so not wanting to rock the boat
- the investors placing too much reliance on the agencies rather than actually doing their own diligence
- the hedge funds buying ever more sub investment grade bonds and taking more risk because margins were being squeezed
- the regulators having no idea what the hell was going on, and not having the balls and/or the inclination to dig too deep
- the government not wanting to rock the boat because there is an election coming up

Ywp, we are all to blame.

Yes, but some profit from this and others do not.

I do however miss what this have to do with flag burning. I find it disrespectful to burn the flag. It may be that in allowing the flag to be burned US shows its greatness. But I do know that I do not listen to people who burn flags.

In Sweden it is considered disorderly conduct to burn the flag.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 50

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:03:39 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

Not going to blame myself at all for the mess. I play the game fairly. Usually to my demise. Heck I own my own business and pay all the taxes I am supposed to without playing hide the money from the IRS. Have never shown a loss in any year, give my 5 employees full benefits with medical and I pay 75% of the medical ins cost. From them I get loyalty, that is about the only way I seem to stay ahead. It is expensive, but my employees even come to work off the clock when there is nothing to do. They hang out in the office, even help with paperwork, filing, truck inventory off the clock when it is slow.

But in no way will I accept blame for any of the housing bust. Not going to happen.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 51

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:10:14 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Not going to blame myself at all for the mess. I play the game fairly. Usually to my demise. Heck I own my own business and pay all the taxes I am supposed to without playing hide the money from the IRS. Have never shown a loss in any year, give my 5 employees full benefits with medical and I pay 75% of the medical ins cost. From them I get loyalty, that is about the only way I seem to stay ahead. It is expensive, but my employees even come to work off the clock when there is nothing to do. They hang out in the office, even help with paperwork, filing, truck inventory off the clock when it is slow.

But in no way will I accept blame for any of the housing bust. Not going to happen.

Warspite1

The WE is obviously a generalisation - its not personal; not everyone mortgaged themselves to the hilt; had to get the latest car/flat screen; had to have the most expensive holiday - fact was there were sufficient that did that caused the mess. If there wasn't then there would be no sub prime mortgages to securitise; there would not be enough sub investment grade paper to create CDO's out of; there would be no buyers for the paper even if there was; Lehmans would not have billions of worthless real-estate on its hands because there never would have been enough buyers for them to enter the market.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 52

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:19:27 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I hate to pop your bubble, but the whole housing mess that caused all the trouble we are living through today is the fault of the progressive politicians who forced through bills mandating loans be given to folks unable to pay back or secure those same loans with any collateral, not Wall Street. Wall Street is guilty of greed sure, they piled on in a rush to make their billions, but the core cause of the disaster did not grow out of capitalism, it was due to a socialist agenda and the ideology of social justice at any price.

It was probably too late when the Bush administration finally made an effort to regulate things at Fannie and Freddie, but by then Frank and Dodd were in total control and they blocked all attempts to fix the problem. Everything that happened after that is a symptom of their failed social justice agenda.

The fact Wall Street used their massive political influence for bailouts and basically looted the coffers of the American public is a crime sure, I too want people in jail. But their power and influence is so vast and the political system here so corrupt, it would take someone of considerable fortitude to ever do anything about it. And I haven�t seen a political leader like that in decades, so don�t hold your breath.

Jim

Warspite1

Jim D Burns, imo it is a little more complicated than that. If you are a politician its easy to bash the bankers if your a banker its easy to blame the politicians. Fact is, we were ALL to blame - and while there were loads of individual reasons (and a lot of good people got burned), greed was chief amongst them. Regardless of what what the politicians decided to do, it still took a long chain of events to get where we got to:

- the homowner (or prospective homeowner) deciding to take out a mortgage/re-mortgage they knew they couldn't afford
- the broker, knowing the client couldn't afford it but wanted his commission, so turned a blind eye
- the valuer knowing he only gets to stay on the mortgage company's books if he provides "friendly" valuations
- the mortgage company that needs to increase volume massively because competition is squeezing his margins to the bone
- the bankers allowing looser terms to the mortgage companies so they get the chance to securitise the company's product
- the rating agencies getting paid by the client so not wanting to rock the boat
- the investors placing too much reliance on the agencies rather than actually doing their own diligence
- the hedge funds buying ever more sub investment grade bonds and taking more risk because margins were being squeezed
- the regulators having no idea what the hell was going on, and not having the balls and/or the inclination to dig too deep
- the government not wanting to rock the boat because there is an election coming up

Ywp, we are all to blame.

Yes, but some profit from this and others do not.

Warspite1

Of course - but that is life - always was, always will be. What gets my goat is the notion that EVERYONE at the top got rich and EVERYONE at the bottom got screwed. It's just not true. There were people in all strata/classes - call it what you will - that gained and those that lost. Crazy, crazy times - and we are all paying for it now regardless of whether we think we contributed or not

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 53

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 10:50:37 PM

Perturabo

Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

ITT lot of people more butthurt about burning a piece of cloth than about breaking in to public property and vandalising it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
These kids today are simply a symptom of the subversion from within campaign the communists started long ago.

Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I remember a lot of people from all sides of the political spectrum being pretty pissed off about the bailouts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

These kids today are simply a symptom of the subversion from within campaign the communists started long ago. Not sure if this video details it, but I�ve watched one of his lectures in the past where he lays it all out.

They really should have left them sealed letters labelled "Open if Soviet Union will fall" with little notes where they tell them that they were useful idiots and that they should stop. Such a lack of foresight.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)

Post #: 54

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/30/2012 11:48:52 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I don't like any of it-burning flags or vandalising public or private property. To me, its alot more than a burning piece of cloth. It represents a decaying nation from the family up to the nation's leaders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ITT lot of people more butthurt about burning a piece of cloth than about breaking in to public property and vandalising it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
These kids today are simply a symptom of the subversion from within campaign the communists started long ago.

Whereas Bear Stearns, Freddie Mse & Fannie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers and all those "100% Capitalist!" companies who striped the young Americans of their future (and sometimes were saved by the taxpayers money - you know, that kind of approach that is deemed "Socialist!" when proposed to cure people, but not when AIG faces the dire consequence of their mismanagement) are a symptom of... what?

Really, I'm not being political here. I'm simply amazed by people who scream pre-cooked "values" while being screwed behind their back over, and over, and over, and over, and over on the very same values.

I remember a lot of people from all sides of the political spectrum being pretty pissed off about the bailouts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

These kids today are simply a symptom of the subversion from within campaign the communists started long ago. Not sure if this video details it, but I�ve watched one of his lectures in the past where he lays it all out.

They really should have left them sealed letters labelled "Open if Soviet Union will fall" with little notes where they tell them that they were useful idiots and that they should stop. Such a lack of foresight.

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 1/30/2012 11:50:03 PM >

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Perturabo)

Post #: 55

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/31/2012 12:16:43 AM

Gilmer

Posts: 1452
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline

I don't know folks. I'm from Polish immigrants (Grandparents) and I cried when the Berlin Wall came down. What does that have to do with anything? I don't know other than knowing that freedom is not anarchy and willful destruction of property is not freedom.

Some of the demands were pretty low brow like complete write-off of all student loans. I had a student loan and I paid it off myself. It would seem like a big "screw you!" to people like me who struggled and paid off their loans. There are also demands of the banks lowering the principal on house loans. But, the people who don't get this are the ones paying their loans. I bought small because I know what the standard is for buying a home. 28% of gross should be your payment.

Anyway. In my honest opinion, this is the end result of a "Me Generation". If you don't give me what I want, I'll protest and destroy - because they have already said the protests are moving towards true violence.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 56

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/31/2012 12:23:10 AM

jwarrenw13

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline

I have strong feelings about the original topic, didn't read all the stuff in between, and think this is the type political discussion that doesn't belong on this particular forum.

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 57

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/31/2012 2:34:44 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I don't care how many are US citizens, round them up and throw them out.

They can burn the flag, then they should set the max penalty for beating a flag burner at 10 bucks. There would be a whole lot less burning then. Kill a flag burner and you pay a 100 fine.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Pesky oath and Constitution.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 1/31/2012 2:39:40 AM >

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 58

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/31/2012 4:57:21 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

I said that oath 3 times, twice active and once in the guard. Thank god I am a civilian now where I can voice my dislike for flag burners and people who spit on my country.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 59

RE: Those That Burn American Flags - 1/31/2012 5:03:19 AM

Andrew Williams