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RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9

 
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RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/14/2012 6:37:53 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the saved game from turn 6 just in case you need it too.

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Post #: 91
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/14/2012 6:56:40 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I drew some flak for stacking up the isolated troops but there's one stack that was attacked by the Axis 4 times and held their
position throughout the attacks. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.




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Post #: 92
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/14/2012 7:00:00 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Does anybody need to see the OOB? Here it is for T9:




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Post #: 93
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/14/2012 7:45:24 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thanks for savegames and playing Larry!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 94
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/14/2012 8:00:53 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		In a campaign saving units for the long haul may be more important than holding a city ( where industry has already been evacuated ) for an extra turn or two. This is not about a specific thing you've done here but just a general idea.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 95
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/15/2012 5:31:32 AM   
KeyserSoze

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/8/2011
Status: offline 		Cheers Larry, enjoying reading this!

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 96
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/15/2012 5:41:09 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		@KeyserSoze dude: Good, I'm glad. Anything missing that you really really want to see? I'm flexible and can include screenshots etc. for just about anything.

(in reply to KeyserSoze)
Post #: 97
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/15/2012 5:43:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw
In a campaign saving units for the long haul may be more important than holding a city ( where industry has already been evacuated ) for an extra turn or two. This is not about a specific thing you've done here but just a general idea.

Yeah, generally I would agree. But I decided to hold onto Riga as long as possible both because it's a port and therefore has supply and also because as long as I held it the AI couldn't run any rail through there to supply Leningrad. He finally took Riga in a previous turn but the rail building was definately held up for at least a turn or two.

Other than that I can't see wasting troops just to hold a city either.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 98
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/15/2012 5:48:12 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the situation in Leningrad. That's mud you see for weather. This is a mud turn in the center of the map. A lucky break for me I
guess. Maybe not. Depends on how far I can retreat and how far he can advance this turn.




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Post #: 99
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/15/2012 6:33:30 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the T9 Soviet moves:

I couldn't retreat very far because of all the mud. Otherwise I'd be further to the east by now.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 2/15/2012 6:35:41 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 100
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 7:02:31 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some T10 stats from the Axis half of the turn:




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Post #: 101
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 7:19:06 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the T10 Axis moves:




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Post #: 102
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 7:48:37 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		See, you left some units out in the open and they got swallowed up. Terrain, terrain, terrain!

You also have Western Front units scattered about, making the linking of the HQs tougher.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 103
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 7:52:01 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm obviously not doing this right. I'm going to read some more Soviet-side AAR's and start over and try again. Maybe it's the 110% settings I'm trying?

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 104
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 7:55:41 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		I think it's just that you have a lot of mileage on your tires and tend to forget tips given to you.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 105
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 8:08:42 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

BTW, as you can see from pic above - Gary made it so that all enemy units left behind are coupled with, preferably, security division and destroyed!

This was one of my pet-peeves and I provided few savegame files that helped him nail it...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 106
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 9:34:32 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		nice job in agn Larry - you shut the AI down hard in the North. AGC yer a little loose - if you did like you did in agn it wouldve been much better - start including fort levels if you could. when the bad guys reach the main rivers you really need em forted. even if they get over you have a chance to hold em an extra turn from each fort beside the breach. too many bodies runnin around out front means no ones got a shovel in the rear.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 107
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/15/2012 2:45:04 PM   
DrewBlack


Posts: 828
Joined: 7/3/2004
From: North Wales, UK
Status: offline 		Larry really enjoying this aar, im at T10 at the moment with the Ai and trust me THE AI CAN MAKE ENCIRCLMENTS

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3029666

see post 18.

Your right though things like this make the game a LOT better.

Drew

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 108
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/16/2012 9:58:31 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Larry, I looked at your savegame files - thanks again!


Are those from the end of your (Soviet) turn?

Do you, possibly, have autogenerated Axis savegames as well?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 109
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T2 - 2/16/2012 8:37:46 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's the front lines after the Axis moves in T2:





I note that even though you abandoned Minsk on T1, the AI refused to take the hex on T2. It definitely doesn't like the local city dwellers!

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 110
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T2 - 2/16/2012 8:39:37 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

i dont like ai ags opening at all


Yep - same in my test

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to juret)
Post #: 111
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T3 - 2/16/2012 8:40:45 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I did a recon-by-cursor and traced the progress of the Axis rail line leading to Riga. And by some miracle, I still own Riga.



As stated...

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 112
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T5 - 2/16/2012 8:43:17 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's the Axis moves in T5:



The Hero City of Riga.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 113
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/16/2012 8:45:58 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Hmmm... random weather makes it hard to compare different test game results.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 114
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/16/2012 11:46:15 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Larry, I looked at your savegame files - thanks again!

Are those from the end of your (Soviet) turn?

I tried to save the game immediately after I get the chance. But on the other hand when I quit for the night I do a save of the game with the same name so it gets overwritten with the new information, sometimes toward the end of the turn. Sorry about that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
Do you, possibly, have autogenerated Axis savegames as well?
Leo "Apollo11"

I didn't know there were autogenerated Axis savegames. Where are these auto-saved games stored? I may have turned that facility off since I don't see those saved games in the "save" directory.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 115
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/16/2012 11:46:54 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
Hmmm... random weather makes it hard to compare different test game results.

Maybe the next tests should be done with non-random weather so we CAN compare them.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 116
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T10 - 2/17/2012 7:02:22 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Larry, I looked at your savegame files - thanks again!

Are those from the end of your (Soviet) turn?


I tried to save the game immediately after I get the chance. But on the other hand when I quit for the night I do a save of the game with the same name so it gets overwritten with the new information, sometimes toward the end of the turn. Sorry about that.


OK - no problem at all Larry - thanks again!


quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Do you, possibly, have autogenerated Axis savegames as well?


I didn't know there were autogenerated Axis savegames. Where are these auto-saved games stored? I may have turned that facility off since I don't see those saved games in the "save" directory.


In Game Preferences there is a check box for it ("Auto Save Game" - top right corner) - I use it when i TEST play so that at the beginning of each turn for each side the automatic savegame appears...



Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 117
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T9 - 2/17/2012 11:13:52 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
Hmmm... random weather makes it hard to compare different test game results.

Maybe the next tests should be done with non-random weather so we CAN compare them.


Well, I'm doing a test as the Axis human now vs. the AI with non-random weather. It won't be a basis for comparison as such, but it'll provide some insights into how the AI defends with all the changes.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 118
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T2 - 2/17/2012 10:55:31 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
Well, I'm doing a test as the Axis human now vs. the AI with non-random weather. It won't be a basis for comparison as such, but it'll
provide some insights into how the AI defends with all the changes.

I for one would LOVE to see how that goes. I've tried my hand at playing the Axis against the Soviet AI and I found the Axis side as
hard or harder than trying to play the Soviet side. The problem is trying to advance the tanks as far as possible to cut off Soviet units
from supply in such a way as to minimize the number of attacks required so as to keep the max losses low ( tanks and men ).
Whereas, in the early turns at least, the Soviet player has to try to cogeal some mass of troops along a contiguous front line from
north to south so as to use natural terrain features to best advantage so as to be able to contain the Axis thrust(s) without giving any
large chance of pockets forming while keeping losses to the minimum. It's not as easy as it sounds for either the Axis or Soviets. I've
found that it takes a lot of practice to get good at either task.

The good news is that I've started over. I went back to the turn 2 saved game and I'm continuing from there. I'm taking my time and
sort of doing a scientific experiment, I'm examining every potential saving I can think of, every performance-enhancing technique, in
short, I want to make this my masterpiece and then move on to a different game. Nah, I'm kidding. I'll keep playing after.

Hey, I found out how to get a listing of the Soviet Level Bombers sorted by range. I'm finding out more and more about this fabulous
game all the time.

Oh, and thanks all you guys who supply tips and tricks. I've read through the AAR by M60 in his game with Pelton and I think that's a magnifcent read for WITE players. I reccomend it.





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(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 119
RE: 1.05.61 Axis AI vs fulkerson T3 - 2/17/2012 11:04:28 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I don't quite know if this is going to work right and be understandable, but it's the T1 front lines and the T3 front lines. You're supposed to be able to figure out where the T2 front lines were. I'd include T2's front lines in the picture but that would make it too big to upload.

You can see the general trend of the Axis advance however and I've got to try to contain that.




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 120
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