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retrofit star base? - 4/1/2012 8:49:48 PM   
malisle

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I always use custom research star bases and armed mining stations. With new techology researched,
they become inefficient and the only way to upgrade them is to scrap them and build another one, or cheat using editor.

Is it now possible (after all those patches) to retrofit a custom design Starbase/Mining station that is placed over some planet or in deep space? In older versions there was a retrofit button but it never worked. Is it now fixed? If it is, are there any special condtions that need to be fulfilled in order for that to work? Retrofit using Constructor maybe?

Post #: 1
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/1/2012 9:56:22 PM   
Dracus

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline 		Nope, you still have to scrap and rebuild

(in reply to malisle)
Post #: 2
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/2/2012 3:12:13 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		I concur - still have to scrap and rebuild. Would be nice if you could upgrade, your minin bases with maxos blaster's end up a little outdated once you have titan beams :D

(in reply to Dracus)
Post #: 3
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/2/2012 8:06:29 PM   
malisle

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Do the devs know about this?
I remember this problem existed long ago. Since it wasn't fixed in the series of patches that dealt with design and upgrading,they either don't know about it (which I kinda doubt), or it is to complicated for them to solve (which I doubt even more)...

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 4
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/2/2012 10:18:41 PM   
Fishers of Men


Posts: 329
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Fishers, IN USA
Status: offline 		If the mining stations, etc. could be set on auto retrofit in the Design screen, that would be very helpful. But remember, once the government builds these stations and incurs the cost, they are turned over to the civilians and they have to pay the maintenance costs. So I guess they are not in our control at that point.

_____________________________

Old............but very fast

(in reply to malisle)
Post #: 5
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/3/2012 2:32:01 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: malisle

Do the devs know about this?
I remember this problem existed long ago. Since it wasn't fixed in the series of patches that dealt with design and upgrading,they either don't know about it (which I kinda doubt), or it is to complicated for them to solve (which I doubt even more)...



...or it was a design decision about how they intended the game to be played.

I say this because I can assure you that they know about 'this' and don't consider it a problem in need of fixing.

(in reply to malisle)
Post #: 6
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/3/2012 7:26:48 AM   
onomastikon

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller


quote:

ORIGINAL: malisle

Do the devs know about this?
I remember this problem existed long ago. Since it wasn't fixed in the series of patches that dealt with design and upgrading,they either don't know about it (which I kinda doubt), or it is to complicated for them to solve (which I doubt even more)...



...or it was a design decision about how they intended the game to be played.

I say this because I can assure you that they know about 'this' and don't consider it a problem in need of fixing.


There is, however, still one issue: These bases still have an active "retrofit" button you can push, which is not only ineffectual but misleading. If "this" is WAI, then the button has to go. (That's been in my list of issues for a while.)


(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 7
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/3/2012 7:42:48 AM   
malisle

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon


quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller


quote:

ORIGINAL: malisle

Do the devs know about this?
I remember this problem existed long ago. Since it wasn't fixed in the series of patches that dealt with design and upgrading,they either don't know about it (which I kinda doubt), or it is to complicated for them to solve (which I doubt even more)...



...or it was a design decision about how they intended the game to be played.

I say this because I can assure you that they know about 'this' and don't consider it a problem in need of fixing.


There is, however, still one issue: These bases still have an active "retrofit" button you can push, which is not only ineffectual but misleading. If "this" is WAI, then the button has to go. (That's been in my list of issues for a while.)



Exactly. If I knew that the retrofiting was as it was intended, I would never made a post about it. Retrofit button that changes from black&white to colour when the new design is available led me to believe that something should happen when pressed.

(in reply to onomastikon)
Post #: 8
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/3/2012 6:28:38 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		Yes it's true that the button can mislead.  It happens also with private sector ships.

I never actually suffered from the impression that bases not at colonies could retrofit.  Maybe something was said in the galactopedia?

(in reply to malisle)
Post #: 9
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/4/2012 2:38:41 AM   
jpwrunyan


Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline 		Point remains, you should be able to retrofit non-planetary bases. Either using constructor ships or, if the base has construction docks, using the retrofit button.

One game, i made my resort bases have construction yards and component fabricators thinking i would then be able to retrofit them. Nope.

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 10
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/4/2012 7:52:57 AM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

Point remains, you should be able to retrofit non-planetary bases. Either using constructor ships or, if the base has construction docks, using the retrofit button.

One game, i made my resort bases have construction yards and component fabricators thinking i would then be able to retrofit them. Nope.


iirc, the argument is that refitting bases "in the field" (not orbiting a colony) is too complex a task for a constructor ship. While I disagree with that premise - since replacing a few systems is far less complex than manufacturing the entire facility from raw materials - I accept that it's a design decision that isn't entirely unreasonable.

(in reply to jpwrunyan)
Post #: 11
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/4/2012 7:53:03 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		What point?

I see no 'should' here.  If all you mean is 'i want to be able to' that's fine but it does not form any imperative.

(in reply to jpwrunyan)
Post #: 12
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/4/2012 8:47:46 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		I want to be able to, and I should be able to, surely? I can retrofit everything else and also build these things from scratch but can't retrofit them?

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 13
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/5/2012 4:06:16 AM   
jpwrunyan


Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline 		Jeezus fellowtraveller, semantic argue much? At least try to be funny next time.
W1p, thank you for clarifying what *should* have been obvious. I appreciate someone like yourself whose brain is set to understand a person's implicit meaning by default.

Oh! Wait... Oh noes!!! i did it again!!!!
Bad imperative! BAD!

Hey, lets all nitpick eachother in the most boring way possible instead of talking about the game!!! Because that's not soul-witheringly depressing at all.
If you are about to reply to this post seriously, let me inform you now that YHBT YHL HAND

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 14
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/5/2012 10:14:59 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w1p

I want to be able to, and I should be able to, surely? I can retrofit everything else and also build these things from scratch but can't retrofit them?


Try reftrofitting a private ship, or make changes to a found high tech ship (while preserving the high tech components). So you can't retrofit everything else.

With the current game design you are forced to make some choices. Do I want maximum mining extraction now for extra overheads later? Do I put enough weapons on my non-retrofittable bases so that they can defend themselves late game, or just enough for immediate pirate tech levels? Etc.

I think it a good game design. And part of game design is building in limitations to make it interesting. That's largely what tech trees are all about. You may as well argue that you surely should have the highest tech right from the start of the game.

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 15
RE: retrofit star base? - 4/5/2012 10:17:34 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

Jeezus fellowtraveller, semantic argue much? At least try to be funny next time.
W1p, thank you for clarifying what *should* have been obvious. I appreciate someone like yourself whose brain is set to understand a person's implicit meaning by default.

Oh! Wait... Oh noes!!! i did it again!!!!
Bad imperative! BAD!

Hey, lets all nitpick eachother in the most boring way possible instead of talking about the game!!! Because that's not soul-witheringly depressing at all.
If you are about to reply to this post seriously, let me inform you now that YHBT YHL HAND



I am talking about the game.

Just because you want something doesn't make it obvious, or even sorely needed.

If there is a reason for your 'should' state it. If there isn't don't pretend your preference is the word of god.

(in reply to jpwrunyan)
Post #: 16
RE: retrofit star base? - 7/7/2012 5:34:12 PM   
Mright

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2011
Status: offline 		Wait... Why can't private ships and bases be retrofitted by the private sector? It would be in their direct interest to do so and would increase their profit margins long term while costing in the short term. The cost would be indirectly passed on to the gov as they would see a reduced income from taxing and production as the base was upgrading but in the long run it would increase revenue.

@feelotraveller I have to say that I think it SHOULD be in the game, but I don't know that it should be done by the government. However some of the more controlling governments certainly should be able to do this. I am of cores speaking from a logical perspective, I have no way of knowing how this would effect game play unless it was attempted.

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 17
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/17/2012 4:27:53 PM   
Lex Talionias

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		huh, i always assumed the private sector would retrofit its own stuff. kinds dumb for them not to after all.

further more i really feel that retrofiting star bases of every variety (cept maybe private and discovered/captured ones) should be part of the game. it just seems buggy that its not!

if you REALLY need realism that badly then have it be very expensive to do, take ages and reduce/stop entirely the stations function.

simply put all this feature is gonna do it make me build a new one next to the old one then blow up the old one, that is micro management, not good rp and not strategic in any way shape or form.

its more annoying then anything else in my opinion and by the sounds of it many others as well.

(in reply to Mright)
Post #: 18
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/17/2012 4:33:37 PM   
Lex Talionias

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		this game is great in that you can get larger and larger scale as you go without being held back by the little details.

manually duplicating then removing every single star-base atleast 3 times in one game is gonna hold you back.

(in reply to Lex Talionias)
Post #: 19
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/17/2012 10:27:23 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		Actually I think it's great for gameplay that most bases can't be retrofitted.  Makes me think when building a base, not just about what I want on it for now but also what will happen in the long term.  A few maxos blasters on a mining base will hold off early pirates but late game they'll just be laughing at me.  So how much should I arm the base?  Should I even bother?  Should I stack it with mining engines to maximise immediate yields or put less so I don't end up paying later for redundant components?  If I could retrofit it would take much of the interesting choices out of the picture for me.

As for realism I think about houses in our world.  Now maybe it's different elsewhere but out in the boondocks where I live they don't retrofit houses.  They build them and let them be; at least until they destroy them to build new ones.  It means there's some new housing here and there, and then older, and older still, and then there's the really decrepit (you know the ones pirates laugh at).  I'm sure there may be other analogies but this is enough to suggest that the mechanism is not unrealistic - given that we don't have mining bases in space 'realism' is very strange. 

(in reply to Lex Talionias)
Post #: 20
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/18/2012 1:25:01 AM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline 		+1

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 21
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/18/2012 2:39:32 PM   
Dracus

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline 		Not true feelotraveller, you do retrofit your houses when you repaint, change out the flooring, turn the garage into a game room, add on a sun room, build a pool, plant trees, replace the AC unit, add direct tv, etc. Basely when ever you make a change to the orginal house, you have retrofit.

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 22
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/18/2012 6:00:48 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Please add the feature to retrofit starbases not at planets.

(in reply to Dracus)
Post #: 23
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/18/2012 6:20:27 PM   
w1p

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		I would like to see this in the game too. I can't understand feelotraveller's point of view about this subject... but hey, i don't have to, it doesn't matter.

As Lex has said above, putting it in will stop me having to manually build the new then destroy the old in the same location, most of my bases as my tech increases throughout the game.

< Message edited by w1p -- 8/18/2012 6:24:15 PM >

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 24
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/18/2012 11:45:43 PM   
Panpiper

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well, given that the designer has already stated that they have absolutely no interest in 'fixing' this, I guess whatever we think is largely irrelevant. It's too bad, as I agree with several of the other posters on this thread. In my opinion, having bases and civilian mines be not upgradable is an absurdly illogical and frustrating design decision, that I strongly disagree with (along the lines of; "You've got to be bleeping kidding me!"). It is frustrations with details such as this that are typically things that cause me to loose interest in whatever game I might be playing.

(in reply to w1p)
Post #: 25
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/21/2012 11:58:30 AM   
Algon

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 8/21/2012
Status: offline 		I have to say that I find the idea not to include retrofitting strange as well.

The first rule of making a game is that it has to be fun. If something being realistic means that it makes it less fun, then I'm afraid that the realism has to be dropped.

What they want people to do here seems to be to have them build a replacement before scrapping the old base. Well, that's fine and dandy, but it's irritating. So how about simulating the cost/time involved in building a replacement into a single feature labeled retrofit/replace - hell, it can even be graphically shown 'realistically' by building the new base next door then ceremoniously cremating the old one.

Just don't make the player have to go through hoops to do what should be a simple feature. Because that aint fun.

(in reply to Panpiper)
Post #: 26
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/22/2012 3:14:20 AM   
Lex Talionias

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		cant retrofit a house my tits! i live in a house that was once a shed! my childhood home was built as weatherboard and then turned into a brick house!

i dont care if the fix is ever bit as expensive as building a whole new one i just want them to take away the tedium of the current system!


its not a feature, its a lack of one.

(in reply to Algon)
Post #: 27
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/22/2012 5:19:30 AM   
Panpiper

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		When I made my original post (a couple posts up), I was playing version 1.7.06. I was actually unaware at that moment that there have been several patches since, except they are called 'beta' because the game may be less stable than the older 1.7.06, not more. However, in the newer 'beta' patch version there is a feature which does in fact automatically and incrementally retrofit any and all ships and bases designated to be so retrofitted (yes, including civilian bases and ships!). I still have not figured out all the nitty gritty of how to most effectively use the new feature or for that matter exactly what it is doing or how it works. But my griping post above was, in the context of this new patched version, entirely un-called for.

(in reply to Lex Talionias)
Post #: 28
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/22/2012 9:01:25 AM   
Algon

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 8/21/2012
Status: offline 		Ah... that's interesting. I'm playing 1.7.06 myself, which I thought was the latest stable version. I've vaguely seen something about there being higher beta versions, but it sounds like some of them crash a lot or are undesirable for other reasons. Are they near the point of another stable patch release, does anyone know?

(in reply to Panpiper)
Post #: 29
RE: retrofit star base? - 8/22/2012 3:22:12 PM   
Fishers of Men


Posts: 329
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Fishers, IN USA
Status: offline 		I am currently using the DW Legends 1.7.016 beta patch and find it very stable. Check out the readme file for this patch and see what improvements are in it. It probably will not be long and this beta will be official. Elliot is working on it.

_____________________________

Old............but very fast

(in reply to Algon)
Post #: 30
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