RE: European Version of WiTP

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RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/4/2013 1:04:41 PM

gradenko2k

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
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Aside from WITE, I've found Decisive Campaigns to be a fairly detailed simulation, albeit on a different scale. Still, Case Yellow on 1-day turns or Case Blue on 2-day turns (and covering a whole year!) at the Regimental level is plenty of counters to be pushing around.

Some TOAW scenarios are also fairly large and detailed, such as Fire in the East or Directive 21.

Otherwise, we'll have to wait for someone to make a computer version of The Campaign for North Africa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Played HOI 1 and 2 extensively, but never tried 3.

The biggest problem I had with HOI was instantaneous loading of troops on ships.

In a real time (continuous play) game you could load an entire invasion convoy in 1 minute (or whatever the shortest time increment was as it was too long ago that I played it to be able to remember) and it shipped out one minute (time increment) later.

Otherwise it was an enjoyable game, especially the research aspect.

HOI 3 has gotten somewhat better at this: The loading of troops is still pretty much instant, but the unloading of troops is now rate-capped depending on the kind of transport, with combat efficiency suffering accordingly while troops are still on the boats.

The rates go from pre-war generic Transports (what WITP would call AKs) to war-time generic Transports (APs) and finally LSTs that unload the fastest.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 31

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/4/2013 5:38:41 PM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.

Bill

AKA UltraGrognards

Posession of all but one of the Europa series games qualifies me if nothing else.

The combination of the Fire in the East and Scortched Earth maps took up most of a one car garage on a custom built plywood table.

It's sometimes hard to fathom just how many tens of thousands of cardboard counters I corner clipped. I shudder to think how many I clipped with an xacto knife before some one clued me in to the preferred technique of using nail clippers.

NAIL CLIPPERS!!! <Major facepalm> I never heard of that one. Dang. I used my pocket knife, honed to a razor edge. I got so good at sharpening knives that my dad always grabbed my filet knife when we were fileting fish. The time I could've saved......

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 32

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/4/2013 9:38:04 PM

Kitakami

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Memories... memories... over 30 years have passed since my first AH game purchase. Names like SPI, VG, AH, The Gamers, MMP, and many others bring a smile to my lips. And yes, nail clippers! The bigger ones were better because they would last for more counters before they needed replacing. 3R & ATR were good games, VERY good games. But my love was with War in the Pacific. Maybe that is the reason I like AE so much. That monster (1E) was hardly playable, but I enjoyed it so much...

Man, I suddenly feel old :/

< Message edited by Kitakami -- 4/4/2013 9:39:35 PM >

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(in reply to rockmedic109)

Post #: 33

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/5/2013 6:05:49 PM

RevRick

Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Memories... memories... over 30 years have passed since my first AH game purchase. Names like SPI, VG, AH, The Gamers, MMP, and many others bring a smile to my lips. And yes, nail clippers! The bigger ones were better because they would last for more counters before they needed replacing. 3R & ATR were good games, VERY good games. But my love was with War in the Pacific. Maybe that is the reason I like AE so much. That monster (1E) was hardly playable, but I enjoyed it so much...

Man, I suddenly feel old :/

You are a young'un, and YOU feel old. My first game was D-Day (the original) which I got 50 years ago (almost!)

Now, all I play is either WitP:AE or HPS Normandy '44, or Bulge...(and those last two sporadically at best!) All time favorite board game was WSIM!

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Post #: 34

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/5/2013 11:37:54 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.

The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.

Bill

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(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 35

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/6/2013 12:07:06 AM

Justus2

Posts: 729
Joined: 11/12/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.

The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.

Bill

I did the reinforcing stickers on the 3-hole punched sheets for my Star Fleet Battles rulebooks back in college, I think at one point I had 4 binders - Rules, 2 sets of SSDs (in document protectors w/grease pencils for marking damage) and one with all my Federation and Empire stuff. The trees cut down in the pursuit of that game...

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(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 36

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/6/2013 8:16:51 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.

The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.

Bill

There stack better in play or in the box. All those little corner bits where they attached in the sheet stick out if you don't.

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 37

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/6/2013 3:33:08 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.

Bill

Yes, good point Bill. I have been playing one wonderful campaign of AE ever since the game came out with my Polish friend Viberpol. We are talking 1200 turns and about three and a half years of real time. It has been a grand ride but I don't know if I am up to doing it again either with AE or any other monster.

To put it in perspective. I owned a closet full of monster board games but never got past a few months of play in any of them in over 30 years of gaming. The computer and this great game allowed me to play my life long dream of wading into and completing a monster game. The icing on the cake is that it was my favorite theater and time frame as well.

But do I want to do it again?...I am not so sure. Just like Davy Johnson of the Washington Nationals said, perhaps it is time to spend a little time with my family.

BTW, I still play a game or two of ASL...But remain deeply suspicious of those players who cut all the corners off of a billion cardboard counters...

Went to ASL Winter Offensive this winter and both my friends Ken and Jeff were using $40 dollar sets of "balanced dice." Man did I have fun giving them sh*t about that...

< Message edited by crsutton -- 4/6/2013 3:38:23 PM >

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(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 38

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/6/2013 8:36:25 PM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.

Bill

Yes, good point Bill. I have been playing one wonderful campaign of AE ever since the game came out with my Polish friend Viberpol. We are talking 1200 turns and about three and a half years of real time. It has been a grand ride but I don't know if I am up to doing it again either with AE or any other monster.

To put it in perspective. I owned a closet full of monster board games but never got past a few months of play in any of them in over 30 years of gaming. The computer and this great game allowed me to play my life long dream of wading into and completing a monster game. The icing on the cake is that it was my favorite theater and time frame as well.

But do I want to do it again?...I am not so sure. Just like Davy Johnson of the Washington Nationals said, perhaps it is time to spend a little time with my family.

BTW, I still play a game or two of ASL...But remain deeply suspicious of those players who cut all the corners off of a billion cardboard counters... Went to ASL Winter Offensive this winter and both my friends Ken and Jeff were using $40 dollar sets of "balanced dice." Man did I have fun giving them sh*t about that...

If $40 dice would've kept me from missing with all 4 of my overloaded Photons at range 2, I would've paid it and taken any sh*t anyone wanted to give me!

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 39

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/7/2013 12:01:19 AM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
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sorry for the brief hijack; I had read somewhere in this forum about a space game that is close in complexity to AE; what is the name of it?

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Post #: 40

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/8/2013 8:04:36 PM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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Distant Worlds comes to mind

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 4/8/2013 8:05:06 PM >

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Post #: 41

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/8/2013 9:20:56 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline

Thanks!

I did some research... and I am now almost sure that the game mentioned in that old thread was "Aurora". I quote from its wiki page:

"Aurora is a 4X (eXpand, eXplore, eXploit, and eXterminate) science fiction strategy game. Players develop their interstellar empire from the humble beginnings on their homeworld to conquer the universe, or be pummelled into the ashes of history by opposing races.
Some say it has the graphical charm of an income tax assistant software from the late nineties, but a playing depth that more than rivals any commercial 4X game. Aurora is different because it places emphasis on fleet operations and detailed tactical combat. "

Thanks again, and sorry for the hijack

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/8/2013 9:46:21 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/12/2013 6:15:16 PM

pacificbetta

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/4/2009
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In terms of game play, I find "campaign for north africa" very close to WITP. Of course there, the land warfare is the detailed component, with the naval component abstracted

Too bad the game never quite take off, and definitely did not made it to the computer era.

quote:

If somebody created a computer version of Global War 2000

I believe a good fella, Chris (something), created a PBEM tool. GW2000 was a fantastic companion for me for many years, when I had more time to play wargames.......

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 43

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/13/2013 5:06:18 AM

olorin42

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/24/2007
From: Charlotte NC
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Campaign for North Africa is the ultimate in detail. A friend and I played it twice. Mounted the map on a wall to sheet metal. Used magnetic counter clips and built a software program where we could manage all the logistics (each truck represented 10 real trucks). You had to manage Fuel, Ammo, WATER, and stores. You even had to do evaporation losses each week to fuel and water. Man that program helped a lot. I had two PCs set up so we could each do our logistic ops and then go to the wall to move units and handle combat.

(in reply to pacificbetta)

Post #: 44

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/13/2013 12:36:14 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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quote:

It's sometimes hard to fathom just how many tens of thousands of cardboard counters I corner clipped. I shudder to think how many I clipped with an xacto knife before some one clued me in to the preferred technique of using nail clippers

+1

I was lucky to do some play testing with "Mac" and Capt. Wetzelburger (whose name I probably just butchered) of 9-2 fame in ASL out in Balt. Co Md one year. I thought I was ridiculous with number of games owned and hours played until I met that crew. I guess I just want to say I have again been awed by the knowledge and interest surrounding this "gem" of a game.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 45

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/13/2013 1:07:52 PM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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That aurora game certainly looks interesting!

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 46

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/17/2013 2:04:48 PM

pacificbetta

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Joined: 12/4/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: olorin42

A friend and I played it twice.

You sir, are my hero........ You not only did the thing I really wanted to do, but also did it TWICE!

(in reply to olorin42)

Post #: 47

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/18/2013 3:04:35 AM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

ahh sheet metal and magnet counter holders. Those were the days!

An AE design for the western theater isnt impossible, but it would be a massive undertaking. Having played HOI, WITP, PW, DDay, the longest day, normandy 44, and god knows how many other board, wall, and computer simulations, there is nothing that matches the intensity and thoroughness of the AE schema.

Any future design to make AE in the western war face still hurdles, because there are well known continental war shortcomings that come with AE. The successful design would need to overcome that, probably by eliminating hexes altogether and moving to a continuous streaming battlefield using 'micro' location design. Not impossible by any means, but that extra dimension has quite a bit of heavy lifting to it across many of the game sub systems. I certainly would throw in my hat to the degree I could be useful and help push it acoss the finish line.

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Post #: 48

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/18/2013 7:11:13 PM

Vader5

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Joined: 12/1/2008
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Have to congratulate anyone completing a Campaign for North Africa. One of my friends had a copy. We mostly looked at it and thought about playing it and they went back to Wacht am Rhein.

(in reply to olorin42)

Post #: 49

RE: European Version of WiTP - 4/20/2013 10:19:07 PM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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No one yet made a wargame good in Air, Land and Sea.
WITP is the only one that could achieve 2 of them. Most can do only one. Just look at WITE: developed land model, farcical air model, inexistent naval model.
In the development of war-games WITE is a step back.
A good Western Front game needs the Three Services done right. In Mediterranean there is need of 4th since SpecOps did big damage, but a well done land model and a well done naval model should cope with SOF.

(in reply to Vader5)

Post #: 50