RE: Pricing Suggestion

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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:26:27 PM

Echo

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Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Ohio
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Matrix have several games priced like this, I would buy them all...but not at this price. And Matrix never lower their prices either, so I will never buy these games. I was playing harpoon in the nixie room 20 years ago, and they're still selling it here for 70 bucks. It a rickety 20 year old DOS game, for 70 bucks. Crazy.

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Post #: 61

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:26:30 PM

upen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

As always its a value judgement which is a very personal thing. This game offers an immense amount of value and clearly a lot of people agree based on the sales so far - one every few seconds.

Is there a way to add the game to a wishlist so I receive an email when it goes on sale or receives a price drop? I have little interest in paying $80 for a game, especially since there's no demo. Without a demo the $80 price point is a non-starter and I'd like it if there was an automated system that alerted me about changes in the price.

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Post #: 62

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:26:53 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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I should add we've had many discussions on pricing before where we've explained our point of view and the fact that our pricing decisions are data-based. I understand some will disagree, but there are some past threads available if you want to read through in more detail.

Here's one pricing mega-thread as a reference:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3312181&mpage=1&key=�

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Post #: 63

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:28:31 PM

JOhnnyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

It's not like they're making The Sims, where they expect to ship millions of units. Games like Command are designed for a narrow slice of the computer gamer market. They still have costs however that need to be paid, hence the price. I've played witp ae for 4 years on an almost daily basis and it was worth every penny. This appears to be of the same level as that and ill definitely be buying it.

This is a good point. I'm not an avid Simulation/Strategy gamer, though I have played and enjoyed many such games. I suppose we have different points of view.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I should add we've had many discussions on pricing before where we've explained our point of view and the fact that our pricing decisions are data-based. I understand some will disagree, but there are some past threads available if you want to read through in more detail.

Here's one pricing mega-thread as a reference:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3312181&mpage=1&key=�

Great link, thanks Erik!

< Message edited by JOhnnyr -- 9/24/2013 3:30:07 PM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:28:43 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Echo
Matrix have several games priced like this, I would buy them all...but not at this price. And Matrix never lower their prices either, so I will never buy these games. I was playing harpoon in the nixie room 20 years ago, and they're still selling it here for 70 bucks. It a rickety 20 year old DOS game, for 70 bucks. Crazy.

Well, that's not actually true.

We've had sales for Harpoon multiple times, with major discounts. When we did the latest Ultimate Edition release, we not only combined the previous two releases into one at a lower price than it cost to buy them separately, but also with new features on top of years of free updates and included every previous archival version of Harpoon we could find. They are not DOS games, nor are they the same as what was sold 20 years ago, but they do have spartan graphics. I think that was a good deal as well, if what you were after was what it provided.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/24/2013 3:30:42 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:35:49 PM

trebcourie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: upen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

As always its a value judgement which is a very personal thing. This game offers an immense amount of value and clearly a lot of people agree based on the sales so far - one every few seconds.

Is there a way to add the game to a wishlist so I receive an email when it goes on sale or receives a price drop? I have little interest in paying $80 for a game, especially since there's no demo. Without a demo the $80 price point is a non-starter and I'd like it if there was an automated system that alerted me about changes in the price.

Bingo.

This is my biggest issue with most Matrix games -- the lack of a demo.

I'm much more willing to take a risk and buy blind a $20 game than an $80 game. I love game demos because they help me decide what to spend my money on -- and more importantly, what to spend (and not waste) my time on.

If there was a demo, I'd download it tonight and very well could purchase it in the next couple of days if it "felt" right and lived up to its billing. But without a demo, I'll sit back and wait a big before I decide whether to spend $80 on this game.

(To be fair, I'd be saying the same thing about a $20 or $30 game. Command Ops sold me after playing the demo. But my reticence at buying games without a demo is stronger when I can't even take it for a test drive.)

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Post #: 66

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:36:41 PM

tgb

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I, for one, am glad it's priced so high. If it were $30 or $40 I'd be tempted to get it. I would install it, play the tutorial, fire up a scenario, stare at it in befuddlement for a few minutes, and go play something else before uninstalling. This has been my experience with War in the Pacific and War in the East, and I promised myself I'd never buy another $80 game form Matrix.

So thank you, Matrix Software. Now I have an extra $40 to spend on a game I will actually play and enjoy.

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Post #: 67

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:37:21 PM

CoffeeMug

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Heya guys,

I just bought the game for 80 USD + 19% sales tax, FWIW.

I can understand your disappointment about the price. But I as a consumer really want to get those niche products. These guys need our support. So buy their stuff.

And another point: dont compare 80 bucks with 0 bucks. Compare it with 50 or 60 bucks games. Now take the difference and see it in the light of years of future support, joy and fun.

Cheers,
Coffee

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Post #: 68

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:37:35 PM

fuf

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quote:

Wow...I've been lurking here since I heard of the game, but I wasn't expecting $80. I can't help but think they are making a mistake with this type of pricing, it will only serve to discourage newbies and ultimately lead to poor sales.

quote:

Yeah. I looked at the price. Forget it. I out.

I'd just like to add my voice to this view, and assure you we are not a small minority.

I've been following development of this game for some time with great interest, but I'm afraid the price has forced me to forget about ever buying it.

The key point is this: an unconventional game like Command is a "risk" purchase for the vast majority of games players. Statistics have shown that players are willing to take such risks, and try something radically new, but only if the price is right. At $80, no one will ever take that risk.

The traditional argument against this view is that some games are only for an incredibly tiny niche of players, and that reducing the price would not entice any new players anyway, so what's the point?

I think in Command's case, this is clearly not true. Judging from the emphasis on a clean, logical interface, and appealing attention to detail, I genuinely think this game does appeal to a very large number of people.

Unfortunately, Command will never have the chance to prove this, because its price will ensure it goes totally ignored by the vast majority. This results in two things.
First, it makes a lot less money for the developers and publishers.
Second, with its emphasis on user-created scenarios, the game itself suffers.

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Post #: 69

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:37:43 PM

upen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I should add we've had many discussions on pricing before where we've explained our point of view and the fact that our pricing decisions are data-based. I understand some will disagree, but there are some past threads available if you want to read through in more detail.

Here's one pricing mega-thread as a reference:

If you're going to charge a premium price you should provide a premium service. It's absolutely ridiculous that I need to send an email to support to download products I've purchased from you, for some products it's faster to find a download elsewhere than to download the copy I purchased from you for nearly $100.

Is there any word on a demo for this game? Allowing people to play a scenario or two would allow people to figure out what good value this game is and could push a lot of the people in this very thread over the edge to buying it.

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Post #: 70

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:43:12 PM

Djoller

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Joined: 8/5/2013
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I have just payed the equivalent of USD 106,37 incl taxes in Denmark. Anyone higher?

PS. If the game is properly supported, I dont mind paying a little extra,

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Post #: 71

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:43:55 PM

JOhnnyr

Posts: 136
Joined: 4/14/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CoffeeMug

Heya guys,

I just bought the game for 80 USD + 19% sales tax, FWIW.

I can understand your disappointment about the price. But I as a consumer really want to get those niche products. These guys need our support. So buy their stuff.

And another point: dont compare 80 bucks with 0 bucks. Compare it with 50 or 60 bucks games. Now take the difference and see it in the light of years of future support, joy and fun.

Cheers,
Coffee

My problem is I have no idea if I will enjoy this game. It looks fun (I loved Dangerous Waters and other such games) but without some kind of demo, It's not worth $80 for me to find out.

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Post #: 72

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:44:51 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: upen
If you're going to charge a premium price you should provide a premium service. It's absolutely ridiculous that I need to send an email to support to download products I've purchased from you, for some products it's faster to find a download elsewhere than to download the copy I purchased from you for nearly $100.

That's not actually true. If you are logged into our site when you purchase, you can automatically get a new download link through our Members Club in a few seconds without having to contact anyone or request anything. Just go here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/members/myorders.asp

Only if you purchase without logging in, in which case we don't know who you are, do you need to contact our Help Desk for a new download link. There is no limit on number of downloads or new download links and there is no DRM that requires you to be logged into our site to play. You can download once, archive the file and re-install as many times as you want on your own systems for your use.

Also, despite the fact that we do provide good service for our customers, I have to say frankly that if this game were sold off the back of a truck by a guy who was leaving the country tomorrow who you would never hear from again, it would still be worth the price for fans of the genre IMHO.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 73

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:47:01 PM

2ndACR

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Dang Erik, getting steep on these prices.

I am buying it, but mercy. Only reason I am willing to take the risk is I know Matrix stands behind their products with out standing support long after a game is released. I have yet to get burned by Matrix with a bad product. But it is getting hard to justify the expense to the wife, I mean the boss.

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Post #: 74

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:48:22 PM

upen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Also, despite the fact that we do provide good service for our customers, I have to say frankly that if this game were sold off the back of a truck by a guy who was leaving the country tomorrow who you would never hear from again, it would still be worth the price for fans of the genre IMHO.

Regards,

- Erik

Yeah but I can't take your word for that, give me a demo. If I like the game I'll buy it in a heartbeat for $80, but there isn't a chance in hell I'll put down that kind of money for something sight-unseen.

e: This is what your members section has to say about re-downloading games:

quote:

Our new store supports unlimited re-downloads. However, your download link will only be available for a limited number of download attempts or a certain amount of time. If you need to download your game again and your download link is expired please contact our Help Desk or contact support@plimus.com and we will be happy to reactivate your download for you.

< Message edited by upen -- 9/24/2013 3:51:57 PM >

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Post #: 75

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:50:03 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: upen
Yeah but I can't take your word for that, give me a demo. If I like the game I'll buy it in a heartbeat for $80, but there isn't a chance in hell I'll put down that kind of money for something sight-unseen.

I understand that and respect that this is a decision for each person to make. We don't have a demo planned currently, as our experience has been that demos are actually a very poor tool for games like this, when compared to written and video AARs, developer's notes, interviews, etc. all of which we are doing.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 76

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:50:28 PM

Titanwarrior89

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I second all this....same here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Dang Erik, getting steep on these prices. I am buying it, but mercy. Only reason I am willing to take the risk is I know Matrix stands behind their products with out standing support long after a game is released. I have yet to get burned by Matrix with a bad product. But it is getting hard to justify the expense to the wife, I mean the boss.

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Post #: 77

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:50:34 PM

Kipper

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There will be movies etc. on YouTube, growing lists of player scenarios, active community... these will tip a lot of holdouts into buying over time. This is not a war fought and won on the first day.

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Post #: 78

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:51:39 PM

Hexagon

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We need separate 2 things when we talk about a game price, when we retire the money to develop the game and when we talk about only the profit in game there are for me 2 parts, one is the money for developers AND other the money for WHO sell the game, here is the key for me is not fair that seller win same or more than developer, in niche markets like this where are very few sellers you dont have a lot of options, or sell your game alone or search one of the best know sellers but this option increase a lot the final price.

I dont see what is better, if sell at lets say 60 euros with all included or dont sell a game... diference is 17 euros, for every game you dont sell you need sell over 3 games to recover the missing sell and this is not a big market to search new buyers for a game with no demo and very very very far from actual games.

PD: i really start thinking that i can forgive the other 2 games that have release next 2 weeks... with your high prices you lose 4 sells from my.

EDIT: if we talk about support i have some games from Matrix that are waiting patches over 2 years... ooo and talking about game value, is comunity merit, no Matrix merit, if people dont do scens for games... or you expect matrix release scens for free?

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 9/24/2013 3:53:59 PM >

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Post #: 79

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:52:00 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Dang Erik, getting steep on these prices. I am buying it, but mercy. Only reason I am willing to take the risk is I know Matrix stands behind their products with out standing support long after a game is released. I have yet to get burned by Matrix with a bad product. But it is getting hard to justify the expense to the wife, I mean the boss.

Just wanted to mention that we price each game case by case, so the pricing on Command or any other game does not mean that we will be pricing all our games at this level. There will still be games priced all along the price range. Our average game price last I checked was somewhere between $35 and $40, but the flagship benchmark-setting releases which are more expensive to develop and generally one of a kind do get higher prices.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 80

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:53:11 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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I know, but for some reason you only premium price the game that I DO want. How about a frequent flyer program?

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Post #: 81

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:54:23 PM

thewood1

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I have invested several hundred $ in Harpoon's various iterations over the 20 years. Some of them have been good and some have been failures. The game itself sold for $60 in the mid-nineties. I think $20 more for some people who have stepped outside the proverbial box is not a lot. This is not a limited set of units and areas like a CM purchase. This is a sandbox game. CM would set you back over $120 by the time you get all the available units in a series. That is the perspective I take.

I do have my concerns about alienating the people just below the hardcore naval gamers. I do think it is a long-term issue for this franchise, just like CM and Command Ops. But Matrix says the numbers drive the pricing and I have no numbers.

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Post #: 82

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:54:25 PM

Erik Rutins

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We're working on something like that actually, but major store features always take longer than we would like it seems.

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Post #: 83

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:56:07 PM

Erik Rutins

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I'd also like to point everyone who has questions about the game before making a decision whether or not to purchase at this thread for more information:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/announcement.asp?id=26

Also please see all the pinned threads at the top of this forum for developer's notes, AARs and other information.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/24/2013 3:57:02 PM >

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Post #: 84

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 3:58:14 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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Well enough folks are down loading it to choke the server, I got Verizon FIOS with a 25/15 speed and it says 15 hours to down load. LOL

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Post #: 85

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 4:08:33 PM

Alchenar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Well enough folks are down loading it to choke the server, I got Verizon FIOS with a 25/15 speed and it says 15 hours to down load. LOL

That's not really that hard given Matrix's servers.

Also if you want to experience getting burned then I can happily recommend Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog. A product that adds nothing meaningful in the way of features over a series that's nearing 20 years old now and has substantially worse gameplay.

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Post #: 86

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 4:12:23 PM

2ndACR

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Nope, thanks but I am not a huge Close Combat fan, I have most of them, but it is not my true flavor. Call me picky about what I "justify" to the boss. One thing spending money on something she can "touch" but harder for my games. Even though I try to remind her about the new shoes, new dress, new scrubs, new this, new that she buy's, but I always lose that fight in the end.

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Post #: 87

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 4:13:46 PM

Erik Rutins

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Actually, the store downloads go through Amazon's Cloud servers. The bandwidth there is effectively infinite for our purposes and no release of ours affects it in any significant way. If the download is slow, that will typically be due to ISP issues or internet issues between your computer and our servers. Using a download manager may help - we've included links to some in the release posts and the order e-mails.

Our own customer-facing servers (such as the forum, FTP updates, etc.) also have more bandwidth than they need and very rarely approach max usage, at which point we upgrade them again. We've upgraded bandwidth and servers continually to keep up with customer demand.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/24/2013 4:14:35 PM >

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Post #: 88

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 4:14:32 PM

Misconduct

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wow its cheaper then I thought it would be. Great job gents!

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Post #: 89

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 4:18:41 PM

Rob322

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That's how many games get me. Wait for the initial fuss to burn off and then see what the players say and experience. Usually my resolve melts away ...

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Post #: 90