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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 4:38:30 PM   
Pii

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 9/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I think you can figure it out.


You don't know me well do you? lol
Yes after adding "first impressions" to my search I have found it! And I will be reading it completely.
Thanks


You're welcome. I looked in the main forum and it was only 7-8 threads down. So my conclusion is you didn't really look very hard. I can't beleiev you actually had to go to google for it.



And I can't believe you're still trying to insult me.
Geezzzz

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 271
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:00:13 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
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I have taken the heavy burden on myself.

(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 272
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:08:55 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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Guys, please keep things civil. No personal insults or attacks, let's keep this a constructive discussion if at all possible, or it will have to be locked.

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 273
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:10:26 PM   
fuf

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/24/2013
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Some of the arguments being thrown around in here are utterly delusional.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322
I doubt that even if they sold Command for $10 that it would make that much of a difference. The game will scare many before they think to ask about money.


This thread is full of people saying they would buy the game at a lower price. For each of those there are countless others who didn't bother to post. Of course it would make a difference, and probably a big one.

More sales means:
a) more money for everyone involved
b) more people getting involved in wargames, and some of those people will make the jump to development

More money and more developers means more good wargames, and isn't that what we should all want ultimately?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
The documentation and online support would be expensive. In fact, pricing at $80 keeps a lot of the needy new players out. There is sometimes something to be said for pricing at the high end of a market. That is under the assumption you can make your profit of the hardcores.


Are you really trying to imply that Matrix might lose money by selling more copies, because they'll have to provide "documentation and online support"? What planet are you living on?

(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 274
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:15:45 PM   
Pii

 

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Well I've read all the "first impressions" post (didn't take long only two pages.) A few liked, a few had some small complaints but the game is deep so it will probably take a week or so to know for sure how good or bad it is, especially with so few playing it. But those few are probably die hard fans that should and will give it a good work out. I'll keep my eye on it and start saving if it looks ok after a week or two.



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 275
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:18:02 PM   
Pii

 

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I think Matrix is determined to keep their niche market a niche market.

(in reply to fuf)
Post #: 276
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:23:09 PM   
thewood1

 

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I have been in the software business a long time. You can always lose money by not charging enough. That is where oppcosts come in.

(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 277
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:34:52 PM   
Awac835


Posts: 279
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Bought at 108 USD including tax thats for the download edition

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Post #: 278
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:38:49 PM   
thewood1

 

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My rough count out of 59 responses in the impressions thread:

18 thumbs up
2 post not buying from the same guy
9-10 on issues or things they would like to see
the rest helping out of answering questions.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 279
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:41:15 PM   
Tomn

 

Posts: 148
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You know, looking at this argument, it seems the key point is this: If there is a wider available market for wargames, then pricing too high loses sales. If there is not a wider available market for wargames, then pricing too low loses profits. So the question is basically this: Is the market large enough to support a lower price that returns greater profits?

Before we begin that discussion, though, I think it would be useful to define what, exactly, a wargame is, as I think this gets muddled fairly often in such discussions. So what is a wargame? I would suggest that a wargame can most usefully be defined as "a game that attempts to simulate warfare, with a greater emphasis on historical realities than on gameplay requirements." We understand, of course, that any game developer must at some point rely on abstractions unless it is their intent to simulate the entire world at once, yet this seems to me a functional definition that lays down a clear difference between wargames and more mainstream strategy games like, say, Command & Conquer or even Total War.

Is it a requirement, then, that wargames must possess an impenetrable interface, no real tutorial to speak of, lousy documentation and all the accessibility of a spreadsheet? Many modern wargames are like this, true, but if we are to say that a wargame can only be said to be a wargame if it included all these features, it appears that we would have to remove Panzer General and Close Combat and Unity of Command and any number of great hits past and present from the list of wargames. I propose that the above definition is enough to cover wargames in general, and that we might make a subgenre for games that go into such complex detail that it is quite impossible to spare any time or effort whatsoever to improving accessibility - call it "grognard" games, for now.

If we accept this as a definition of wargames, then, can we say that wargames are truly a small niche that would not benefit from a lower pricepoint? Can we say that the amount of those interested in a more realistic strategic depiction of war is too low to support a lower price?

This seems to me unlikely. Why? Well, right at this point in time, on the Steam 100 top-seller list, I can see a game about simulating life as an immigration officer in a dystopic Soviet country, a game simulating being a truck driver in Europe running a truck driving business (realistically enough I might add that it models driver fatigue, among other things), a great many adventure games (which until lately have been thought to be extinct as a genre), and a game simulating the space program in quite explicit detail, where orbital calculations are required to get off the ground and onto the Moon analogue or the Mars analogue or anything else in the solar system. That's just what's on the list RIGHT NOW. Previous top-sellers included train simulators and agricultural tractor simulators, among other oddities. Are we supposed to imagine, then, that games depicting war (one of the single most popular subjects in the world for all of humanity, let alone gamers!) in a realistic fashion are a SMALLER niche than realistic games about the space program or truck driving?

Then, too, let us consider the historical successes of wargames. It is common now to say that wargames are a tiny niche and ever will be a tiny niche, but what of such games as Panzer General or the early Close Combat games? These may not have sold as well as the Warcraft games or Command & Conquer, but neither were they tiny and insignificant - they made and left no small splash on the marketplace in their time. Indeed, was there not a time when wargames were the dominant genre in the games industry, long in a distant past? Was there not a time when companies such as Strategic Simulations Inc. were as well-known as any other?

It seems to me, then, that there almost certainly DOES exist a large market for wargames - for realistic depictions of war. There ARE people interested in games that simulate warfare with more depth than that which goes into common RTS games. If such a market exists, then, wargames CAN benefit from a lower price point, and CAN sell enough copies to recoup any loss of per-product profit. Not only would they make more money overall, they would find more fans and more people willing to enjoy the game, causing a snowballing effect as word of mouth brings in more and more people who earlier on would not have considered joining the hobby, or of paying the current high prices sight unseen. Should the market exist, and as we have seen the evidence point to its existence, high prices do more harm than good to a developer even if they aren't actually ruinous.

But I will concede that there does not, perhaps, exist as great a market for the aforementioned grognard games. In order to reach out to a niche which had previously been untapped, it would be necessary to make it accessible for these newcomers - they must be welcomed and eased into the game, so that they do not quit from frustration and complain to their friends. Games like Unity of Command or Panzer General 2 are proof positive that this can be done, and done successfully, and for games such as these (or even for games only moderately more complex than these!) I believe it can be seen that there should indeed be a market. But for games which are so immensely complex, that model such an incredible amount of detail that it is completely, utterly, and totally impossible to even contemplate trying to ease a new gamer in, that I could agree with as being too small a niche to accept new blood and new money, and which would probably only survive at the currently high prices.

From what I have heard, however, Command is not such a game - I've heard in fact that they've taken pains to improve the interface and try to allow a newcomer to understand it. I wonder, then, if the current pricing is really the best choice for it?

(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 280
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:43:19 PM   
RoryAndersonCDT

 

Posts: 1830
Joined: 6/16/2009
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Do you guys know what "Grognard" means in french?

There is a bloody good reason the term for wargamers is "grognard". This thread is 100% grumbling!


As a beta tester I can tell you all that the game is absolutely worth it! I've been thinking of streaming some of Command on twitch.tv as soon as I download the non-beta-test version!

There is no other game on the planet where you can spoof the active radar sensor on a harpoon missile with chaff and have its ESM seeker take over at the terminal phase and still score a hit! !

Or watching the intricate dance of microwave illuminators moving from incomming missile to incomming missile desprately trying to keep the soviet missiles AWAY from the carriers!


Other wonderful moments I've had testing this game:
Flying your f16 down a canyon NOE to avoid flak and radar detection!
Figuring out a way to intercept B2 bombers! Plotting patrol zones for a 10+day long sandbox mission where at SOME point a B2 will try to sneak though my air defenses.

The scenarios the game comes with are great! But the game really shines in the sandbox mission editor.

No game in this genre simulates nuclear weapons as much as this game does. Nuclear weapons are 'game-changers' in naval combat! Including the much vaunted chinese ballistic 'carrier killer' missile!






(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 281
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:44:55 PM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline
A reduction in price does not mean a increase in sales. A 50% reduction in price for a 20-25% increase in sales is not a gain it's a loss. I have been trying to get coworkers to play wargames for over 20 years and by and large outside the military I've had ZERO luck getting anyone to play them even when I've GIVEN them for free. Even in the military I didn't have luck outside of perhaps only 1-2 people a YEAR. The closest the majority are willing to go is mass market games with a military setting. If I could put uniforms and rifles in Skyrim everyone would play it but something as simple but good as Panzer Corp I COULDN'T GIVE A FREE COPY AWAY. The idea of lower prices equaling much higher sales doesn't always hold true.

The price is set by Matrix and if you want it you'll buy it. If your looking for a casual game you'll play for a couple of days, weeks and discard your in the wrong place and I'm sure steam has a simple wargame wanabe that's right up your ally.

_____________________________


(in reply to fuf)
Post #: 282
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:50:50 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
Something to lighten the mood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLc-iSbiV5g&feature=youtu.be



_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 283
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:51:59 PM   
Pii

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 9/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My rough count out of 59 responses in the impressions thread:

18 thumbs up
2 post not buying from the same guy
9-10 on issues or things they would like to see
the rest helping out of answering questions.


Not sure what you are getting at unless you are posting about the lack of post compared to other new releases? :-)

And ALL of the thumbs up, I'll bet, came from die hard fans of the genre and only after a short play time, normally one quick mission, so I'll pretty much discount them until they have a chance to get more in depth.



(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 284
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 5:52:11 PM   
delenda

 

Posts: 29
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oooooo that is sexy!

Pushed out to my friends network

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 285
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 6:12:18 PM   
Alejo1968


Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baloogan

Do you guys know what "Grognard" means in french?

There is a bloody good reason the term for wargamers is "grognard". This thread is 100% grumbling!


As a beta tester I can tell you all that the game is absolutely worth it! I've been thinking of streaming some of Command on twitch.tv as soon as I download the non-beta-test version!

There is no other game on the planet where you can spoof the active radar sensor on a harpoon missile with chaff and have its ESM seeker take over at the terminal phase and still score a hit! !

Or watching the intricate dance of microwave illuminators moving from incomming missile to incomming missile desprately trying to keep the soviet missiles AWAY from the carriers!


Other wonderful moments I've had testing this game:
Flying your f16 down a canyon NOE to avoid flak and radar detection!
Figuring out a way to intercept B2 bombers! Plotting patrol zones for a 10+day long sandbox mission where at SOME point a B2 will try to sneak though my air defenses.

The scenarios the game comes with are great! But the game really shines in the sandbox mission editor.

No game in this genre simulates nuclear weapons as much as this game does. Nuclear weapons are 'game-changers' in naval combat! Including the much vaunted chinese ballistic 'carrier killer' missile!



Still in the third place of my (hey Wood1) HARDCORE list, but anyway that comment about the harpoon really makes me drool.
In fact, it makes me remember the book "The Sixth Battle" from Barret Tillman, and his explanation about how a missile's "brain" processed information in its way to the target. Beautifull, really beautifull.
By the way, if you can, get that book!
Thanks for your post... Just makes me sad to see that I´ll have to wait some time to enjoy this.

(in reply to RoryAndersonCDT)
Post #: 286
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 7:09:54 PM   
trebcourie

 

Posts: 301
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf


For all we know the first 10,000 boxed copies were shipped to the PRC. $80 is a lot for many people, but chump change for governments.



10,000?

They just need one; then their hackers can distribute 10,000 broken copies internally.

(Note to Moderators: This isn't really a "pirating" comment. It's a joke about the PRC's hacking ability!)

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 287
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 7:14:37 PM   
fuf

 

Posts: 5
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn

You know, looking at this argument, it seems the key point is this: If there is a wider available market for wargames, then pricing too high loses sales. If there is not a wider available market for wargames, then pricing too low loses profits. So the question is basically this: Is the market large enough to support a lower price that returns greater profits?

Before we begin that discussion, though, I think it would be useful to define what, exactly, a wargame is, as I think this gets muddled fairly often in such discussions. So what is a wargame? I would suggest that a wargame can most usefully be defined as "a game that attempts to simulate warfare, with a greater emphasis on historical realities than on gameplay requirements." We understand, of course, that any game developer must at some point rely on abstractions unless it is their intent to simulate the entire world at once, yet this seems to me a functional definition that lays down a clear difference between wargames and more mainstream strategy games like, say, Command & Conquer or even Total War.

Is it a requirement, then, that wargames must possess an impenetrable interface, no real tutorial to speak of, lousy documentation and all the accessibility of a spreadsheet? Many modern wargames are like this, true, but if we are to say that a wargame can only be said to be a wargame if it included all these features, it appears that we would have to remove Panzer General and Close Combat and Unity of Command and any number of great hits past and present from the list of wargames. I propose that the above definition is enough to cover wargames in general, and that we might make a subgenre for games that go into such complex detail that it is quite impossible to spare any time or effort whatsoever to improving accessibility - call it "grognard" games, for now.

If we accept this as a definition of wargames, then, can we say that wargames are truly a small niche that would not benefit from a lower pricepoint? Can we say that the amount of those interested in a more realistic strategic depiction of war is too low to support a lower price?

This seems to me unlikely. Why? Well, right at this point in time, on the Steam 100 top-seller list, I can see a game about simulating life as an immigration officer in a dystopic Soviet country, a game simulating being a truck driver in Europe running a truck driving business (realistically enough I might add that it models driver fatigue, among other things), a great many adventure games (which until lately have been thought to be extinct as a genre), and a game simulating the space program in quite explicit detail, where orbital calculations are required to get off the ground and onto the Moon analogue or the Mars analogue or anything else in the solar system. That's just what's on the list RIGHT NOW. Previous top-sellers included train simulators and agricultural tractor simulators, among other oddities. Are we supposed to imagine, then, that games depicting war (one of the single most popular subjects in the world for all of humanity, let alone gamers!) in a realistic fashion are a SMALLER niche than realistic games about the space program or truck driving?

Then, too, let us consider the historical successes of wargames. It is common now to say that wargames are a tiny niche and ever will be a tiny niche, but what of such games as Panzer General or the early Close Combat games? These may not have sold as well as the Warcraft games or Command & Conquer, but neither were they tiny and insignificant - they made and left no small splash on the marketplace in their time. Indeed, was there not a time when wargames were the dominant genre in the games industry, long in a distant past? Was there not a time when companies such as Strategic Simulations Inc. were as well-known as any other?

It seems to me, then, that there almost certainly DOES exist a large market for wargames - for realistic depictions of war. There ARE people interested in games that simulate warfare with more depth than that which goes into common RTS games. If such a market exists, then, wargames CAN benefit from a lower price point, and CAN sell enough copies to recoup any loss of per-product profit. Not only would they make more money overall, they would find more fans and more people willing to enjoy the game, causing a snowballing effect as word of mouth brings in more and more people who earlier on would not have considered joining the hobby, or of paying the current high prices sight unseen. Should the market exist, and as we have seen the evidence point to its existence, high prices do more harm than good to a developer even if they aren't actually ruinous.

But I will concede that there does not, perhaps, exist as great a market for the aforementioned grognard games. In order to reach out to a niche which had previously been untapped, it would be necessary to make it accessible for these newcomers - they must be welcomed and eased into the game, so that they do not quit from frustration and complain to their friends. Games like Unity of Command or Panzer General 2 are proof positive that this can be done, and done successfully, and for games such as these (or even for games only moderately more complex than these!) I believe it can be seen that there should indeed be a market. But for games which are so immensely complex, that model such an incredible amount of detail that it is completely, utterly, and totally impossible to even contemplate trying to ease a new gamer in, that I could agree with as being too small a niche to accept new blood and new money, and which would probably only survive at the currently high prices.

From what I have heard, however, Command is not such a game - I've heard in fact that they've taken pains to improve the interface and try to allow a newcomer to understand it. I wonder, then, if the current pricing is really the best choice for it?


Best post in this thread by far.

This is the argument that Matrix needs to respond to if they want to be taken seriously.

(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 288
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 7:27:59 PM   
Nemo84

 

Posts: 115
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fuf

Best post in this thread by far.

This is the argument that Matrix needs to respond to if they want to be taken seriously.



It's also the argument Matrix tries its best to dismiss out of hand whenever this pricing topic is raised. When I earlier raised a similar point in this thread, that other supposedly extremely "niche" genres are flourishing due to modern business practices, Erik's reply was basically "It's been discussed and dismissed by us before [insert link here], stop talking about it." So don't expect Tomn post to result in any real response.

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 9/25/2013 7:28:42 PM >

(in reply to fuf)
Post #: 289
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 7:49:05 PM   
Pii

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I have been in the software business a long time. You can always lose money by not charging enough. That is where oppcosts come in.


I never said otherwise I was referring to their overall business model that seems to want to only cater to die hard war gaming fans and make those fans pay high prices to play.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 290
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 7:53:55 PM   
Duck Doc


Posts: 693
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline

How cool is that trailer?!?!?!

If that doesn't boost sales I'll eat my hat.

(You might want to change Phillipine Cost to Coast or whatever.)

Thanks for that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My rough count out of 59 responses in the impressions thread:

18 thumbs up
2 post not buying from the same guy
9-10 on issues or things they would like to see
the rest helping out of answering questions.


Not sure what you are getting at unless you are posting about the lack of post compared to other new releases? :-)

And ALL of the thumbs up, I'll bet, came from die hard fans of the genre and only after a short play time, normally one quick mission, so I'll pretty much discount them until they have a chance to get more in depth.





(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 291
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 8:19:17 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

quote:

ORIGINAL: fuf

Best post in this thread by far.

This is the argument that Matrix needs to respond to if they want to be taken seriously.



It's also the argument Matrix tries its best to dismiss out of hand whenever this pricing topic is raised. When I earlier raised a similar point in this thread, that other supposedly extremely "niche" genres are flourishing due to modern business practices, Erik's reply was basically "It's been discussed and dismissed by us before [insert link here], stop talking about it." So don't expect Tomn post to result in any real response.

As Erik has posted already in this thread, here is just one of the threads where all these issues have been explained in detail. Feel free to disagree with our analysis, but it's wildly untrue to imply that these points have not been addressed.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3312181

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 292
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 8:24:18 PM   
mcoyote

 

Posts: 12
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Status: offline
Eh. I bought it without thinking twice, once released. Pretty much like I did with Harpoon 3 Ultimate, ANW, etc. before them.

I'm squarely in the middle of their target market, and I'd say we're more used to expensive, rare purchases than not. Examples would be my most recent tabletop purchase (A World at War, 2013 edition, from GMT) -- something like $140. Not like that's a casual purchase, but it was one I was determined to make. On the other hand, GTA V and SR IV are going to sit at the bottom of the list until big DLC bundles appear for cheap on XBox Live.

I'd wager if the game was half the price, especially since it's not on a venue like Steam, the extra uptake wouldn't impress (now, if you were on *Steam* and 1/2 the price, there's a lot more impulse buying there, in my experience...).


< Message edited by mcoyote -- 9/25/2013 8:26:08 PM >


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(in reply to Duck Doc)
Post #: 293
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 8:27:00 PM   
hondo1375


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/12/2005
From: London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Something to lighten the mood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLc-iSbiV5g&feature=youtu.be




That's disappointing Iain, I was expecting a discount coupon at the end of it, otherwise isn't it off topic?

10,000 hits on this thread.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 294
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 8:33:26 PM   
Tomn

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

quote:

ORIGINAL: fuf

Best post in this thread by far.

This is the argument that Matrix needs to respond to if they want to be taken seriously.



It's also the argument Matrix tries its best to dismiss out of hand whenever this pricing topic is raised. When I earlier raised a similar point in this thread, that other supposedly extremely "niche" genres are flourishing due to modern business practices, Erik's reply was basically "It's been discussed and dismissed by us before [insert link here], stop talking about it." So don't expect Tomn post to result in any real response.

As Erik has posted already in this thread, here is just one of the threads where all these issues have been explained in detail. Feel free to disagree with our analysis, but it's wildly untrue to imply that these points have not been addressed.

Cheers

Pip


I believe that is in fact his point: There are no new arguments in response to new arguments, and the only response is to point at an old argument. The result is a little like an Imperial Japanese Navy officer suggesting to his superiors that perhaps it is a mistake to seek a war-winning decisive battle, only to be told "We've already analyzed this. Go reread your Mahan" no matter what arguments he marshals.

(in reply to hondo1375)
Post #: 295
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 8:43:48 PM   
Nemo84

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

As Erik has posted already in this thread, here is just one of the threads where all these issues have been explained in detail. Feel free to disagree with our analysis, but it's wildly untrue to imply that these points have not been addressed.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3312181

Cheers

Pip


Sorry, but the issue is being dismissed. That post basically states: "We have data that we're not sharing (understandable, you are a business after all), and from this data we've drawn conclusions that fully support our established point of view. We are publishers, you are not, thus whatever evidence you point to supporting a change in business practices won't work basically because we say so." And each time a new pricing thread comes up Erik points to that single post, stating it's been discussed there and will not be discussed again. That's dismissing the issue.

I know from many years of professional experience how easy it is for people to, either deliberately or accidentally, misinterpret data, especially if said misinterpretation just happens to confirm their pet theories. Many people in this thread and other similar ones have pointed out countless so-called "niche" genres that have benefited immensely from switching to the current modern sale practices of "low cost, high volume". Even many developers that initially made the exact same claims as Matrix does about why it'll never work for their tiny obscure genre, and later are forced to swallow their words when one week of exposure to a large audience blows away all their old sales records. The Dominions 3 devs, Paradox, the Unity of Command devs, the entire flight/space/vehicle sim genre, Battlefront,.... the list of examples is endless.

And Matrix has yet to provide one single actual argument as to why exactly they would be the one special unique snowflake where this won't actually work. It certainly isn't anywhere in that post you guys keep linking to. People want the wargaming genre to experience the same glorious renaissance as the rest of the PC gaming industry, so there will be more and better titles for all of us to enjoy. Why else do you guys at Matrix think this topic keeps getting dragged out again and again by both your loyal customers and the few members of the gaming press who even bother anymore?

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 296
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 9:00:16 PM   
Alejo1968


Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline
Just curious... is this the most expensive wargame Matrix has?

(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 297
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 9:03:22 PM   
Nemo84

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01

Just curious... is this the most expensive wargame Matrix has?


Yes it is, a shared first place with War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition.

EDIT: Command Ops was also originally sold at this price but after 6 months, a massive months-long debate by customers complaining about the ridiculous price (and most likely disappointing sales), it was significantly reduced in price.

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 9/25/2013 9:09:32 PM >

(in reply to Alejo1968)
Post #: 298
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 9:42:11 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
We don't have anything to add to the price discussion. We disagree with the opinions. Give me an example of a game of the complexity level of Command with the utilitarian look and feel of Command that sells to the mass market and then you have something new to discuss. Other examples are unfortunately irrelevant.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 299
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 9:55:58 PM   
jmscho


Posts: 126
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: York, UK
Status: offline
If someone is tallying opinion, please add one to the satisfied section for me.

Thanks Warfare Sims and Matrix Games.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 300
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