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RE: Allies land on Luzon!!

 
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RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 8:37:24 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		No turn from Erik last night so no update until tonight if I get the turn during the day. Lots of air action in Thailand expected but not much else.

(in reply to DOCUP)
Post #: 1951
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 11:21:39 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Luzon 4th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

Really frustrated with the slow unloading at Iloilo right now. I can´t begin the assault on Manila without these troops. There are 11 tank units and 15 artillery units currently unloading. I´m guessing it will be at least 3 weeks before I can move into Manila.




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Post #: 1952
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 11:28:33 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thailand 4th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

Made some important decisions here yesterday. The Malaya campaign will be postponed for now. It might happen once Eriks superstack is dealt with. Priorities in the area right now:

-Ayuthia
-Bangkok

After that I will try and cut off the troops on the peninsula by moving east in strength. Erik only have 80.000 troops at Cam Ranh Bay and Saigon. I will send a small corps with some artillery and combat engineers to secure both bases. The main force after cutting the rail in the east will move north into China. Erik has about 10 IDs in China (going to go through Intel Monkey and get an exact number). But he can´t send everything down to meet us. He needs to keep the Chinese in check and deal with an incursion from Burma.

This is the main battleplan for now. It will no doubt change as things unfold.




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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/4/2013 7:33:53 PM >

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Post #: 1953
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 11:35:23 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		DEI 4th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

A clear evidence that the Japanese empire is starting to crumble is here. Erik has basically abandoned the whole area. Nothing is left. Only thing holding me back here is shipping. I have sent some xAKs to the area to help with the hauling. Ultimate goal here is Java. I hope to land in 3/45.

I have to be a bit wary though. While Erik has sent his air force to other locations he can easily jump in a big strike package to pounce on my transports. My strenght in the area is very limited. Basically I have two small Corps here with 5 IDs in total (3 OZ, 1 US, 1 African). Only 3 small OZ tank units and limited artillery support.







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Post #: 1954
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 11:43:58 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		State of the KB
______________________________________________________________________________

Sadly two of the heavy CVs have now come off the sunk list. I can only work under the assumption that this is correct. This leaves the current KB strenght at:
-------------------------------
12 Heavy CVs = 852 Planes
2 CVLs = about 60 plane
-------------------------------
Total: Roughly 900 planes

Still quite a punch. And it will force me to cover every invasion with the kitchen sink. But the KB is now weak enough for me to risk dividing my forces in two parts. I will from now on operate the fast CVs free from the CVEs.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1955
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 12:01:28 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		State of the Allied CV power
______________________________________________________________________________

Heavy CVs:
-----------------
9 US CVs (+1 repairing) = 810 AC
9 US CVLs = 300 AC
4 Brit CVs = 200 AC
-----------------
Total: Roughly 1300 AC

This will be increased by 2 US CVs in 20 days (Randolph, Bennington) and another 2 in 50 days (Bunker Hill, Shangri-La)

CVEs
-----------------
About 55 in total
-----------------
Total roughly = 1500 AC

I think Erik believes he have sunk a bunch of my CVEs. In fact he have only managed to sink 5 of them.

I feel confident taking on the full KB with either the CVEs or the Fast TFs. I will try to avoid this though. My next major landing will see both the CVEs and Fast CVs working together. But this time I can send the CVEs in to cover the actual landing while the Fast CVs are free to hunt the KB. ETA on this Feb/Mar -45.

On the fast CVs all CAP squadrons are flying the Corsair "D" Corsair and the Escort fighters are flying the Hellcat "5" model. I opted to use the Helldiver do get the 2 extra 250lbs bombs in the loadout. With the number of times now Erik has wrecked the KB strike planes (5 or 6 now?) I´m pretty confident I have an edge in pilot quality.

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Post #: 1956
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 1:49:10 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Luzon 4th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

Really frustrated with the slow unloading at Iloilo right now. I can´t begin the assault on Manila without these troops. There are 11 tank units and 15 artillery units currently unloading. I´m guessing it will be at least 3 weeks before I can move into Manila.





A very, very minor point, but Cebu has LI at the base and can self-fund some defense and air power. Don't know if you bombed it, but you don't want him to sneak some kamis in there at the wrong time.

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The Moose

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Post #: 1957
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 2:19:29 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Its a good point nonetheless! I´ll take care of it. Thanks

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Post #: 1958
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 2:29:12 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		You cannot move by sea directly from Illoilo to Naga as shown, the hexside is red. They will pass through Legaspi on the way.

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Post #: 1959
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 2:36:07 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

You cannot move by sea directly from Illoilo to Naga as shown, the hexside is red. They will pass through Legaspi on the way.


Aw, crap. You are right. Good catch!

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Post #: 1960
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 2:46:29 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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quote:

Really frustrated with the slow unloading at Iloilo right now.


Naval Support...Naval Support...

Where are your USN BFs?? They need to be at ports loading/unloading troops and supplies.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1961
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 2:52:08 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Really frustrated with the slow unloading at Iloilo right now.


Naval Support...Naval Support...

Where are your USN BFs?? They need to be at ports loading/unloading troops and supplies.


I have 2 of them at Iloilo! 250 Nav support in total. I guess the sheer volume of stuff unloading is making it take so long? Some 8 TFs with almost 200.000 men.

EDIT: Just flew in on of the small Port SVC units last turn. Hope it will help a little!

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/4/2013 2:53:24 PM >

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Post #: 1962
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/4/2013 6:27:04 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Sent Erik an email asking if a turn was coming today and got a short reply back that I might be getting one tomorrow. Lets hope so...

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1963
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 5:41:54 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		The possible turn for the morning did not arrive and no email either.

Wonder what's up... I got a short email thursday saying he was back home but probably wouldn't be able to get a turn up during the evening. Friday nothing showed up and no communication. So I emailed friday evening asking if one was coming. Instantly got a very short replay saying he was going to try to have it for me in the morning. Again, no turn or email when I wake up.

He hasn´t been logged on the forum for 5 days now despite clearly having internet access. This is very unlike Erik and it makes me wonder what's up. I hope its something temporary.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/5/2013 6:03:22 AM >

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Post #: 1964
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 8:04:41 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Maybe he is planning to invade the west coast? That takes a long time to plan...

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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1965
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 2:53:49 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Advice needed!!!
______________________________________________________________________________

Got the turn a few minutes ago!

So Erik moved a big chunk of troops out of Bangkok to Ayuthia. Looks like 3 IDs. Now its only 40k troops in Bangkok in which I think a big chunk is BFs and other troops.

So what do I do? The 4Es are scheduled to go in at Ayythia tomorrow. But there is no guarantee the will fly. Do I risk the crossing anyway and risk getting my "hammer" severely beat up and possible unable to continue for quite some time after the crossing. Or do I cancel the movement and let the other more balanced stack strike directly at Bangkok?

Quite a dilemma. I won´t be able to sustain the 4Es for more then another day. We had a really bloody day in the skies and I can no longer wage a air war in Thailand.

Help?!




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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/5/2013 3:00:11 PM >

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Post #: 1966
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 3:40:32 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Just a thought .. I bet Bangkok is much better fortified than Ayuthia and thus he is trying to balance his adjusted AV to defend both places. I believe he is very willing to trade blood here for time and space. What might be a deciding factor here is no units are prepped for Ayuthia and everything is prepped for Bangkok ..

I might oblige him ... Ayuthia is a slaughter pen very vulnerable from air attacks. Can you mount a series of overwhelming 4E/2E ground attacks from the air? Enough platforms to ensure 1 - 2K losses per turn? You do not have to attrite all 90K of troops .. over 20 days or so 10-15% losses will cause enough disruption and disabled squads to make a crossing more palatable ...

Just a thought ...

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Post #: 1967
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 4:01:48 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Just a thought .. I bet Bangkok is much better fortified than Ayuthia and thus he is trying to balance his adjusted AV to defend both places. I believe he is very willing to trade blood here for time and space. What might be a deciding factor here is no units are prepped for Ayuthia and everything is prepped for Bangkok ..

I might oblige him ... Ayuthia is a slaughter pen very vulnerable from air attacks. Can you mount a series of overwhelming 4E/2E ground attacks from the air? Enough platforms to ensure 1 - 2K losses per turn? You do not have to attrite all 90K of troops .. over 20 days or so 10-15% losses will cause enough disruption and disabled squads to make a crossing more palatable ...

Just a thought ...



You are probably right about adjusting his AV to divide it equally.

I have little (none actually) experience with shock attacks across rivers. I´m very wary of trying to cross tomorrow with the first stack. No engineers and no artillery...To those with more experience in the matter: How big is the risk I will maul my forces badly in the crossing without gaining the hex? I´m very worried about crossing, getting mauled and then be open for counterattack.

Sadly there will be no air campaign against Ayuthia. I might be able to do one or two strikes. But I don´t have the fighters left to maintain control over the airspace. While I shot down almost 200 Jap fighter last turn I lost almost 50 P47s. Don´t have much left in terms of fighters. One, perhaps two days of sweeping that can be followed by 4Es. After that I will have let my 4Es go in unescorted or not at all. And going in unescorted is not an option.


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 1968
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 4:47:37 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hmm, just did a little sandbox. While Eriks forces are unknown I set up 4 US IDs against 4 Jap IDs behind level 4 forts in a clear hex. Equal EXP/MRL. I ran it 3 times. Results were not pretty. About 1000 Jap casualties for 5000 US. At least 2 US IDs where crushed each crossing.

This were using 42 TOEs though as I can´t figure out how to change it in the editor.

Unless someone has another opinion I´m going to cancel the crossing and do a joint crossing right on Bangkok. I have most units already prepped for it including a Command/Corp combo. With the aid of the artillery and combat engineers I would feel a lot more confident.

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Post #: 1969
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 4:57:25 PM   
Crackaces


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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

Unless someone has another opinion I´m going to cancel the crossing and do a joint crossing right on Bangkok. I have most units already prepped for it including a Command/Corp combo. With the aid of the artillery and combat engineers I would feel a lot more confident.


This is where you are prepped for and that makes a big difference .. I think the disruption crossing a is a random die roll...hopefully Grisby is kind to you You already know this, but getting some 4E's on Bangkok will be critical to get some disruption . disrupted units do not contribute to the defense and I think are accounted for before the multipliers of supply and forts?

Anyway .. once across you will disrupt supply coming out of Bangkok ... hopefully your invasion sticks ..

also just a thought if your raw numbers out man him 5:1 and but you take any losses less than 5:1 you end up wining the war of attrition for the base. That is what is key in my opinion.. because once these bases here fall the rest of Thailand/Southeast Asia is up for grabs ..



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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 1970
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 7:26:31 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		5th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

The back of the USAAF is finally broken.

------------------------
Thailand
------------------------
My sweeps to clear the air for the bombers go in. Erik had put up a massive LRCAP over Ayuthia.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Ayuthia , at 56,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 9
J2M3 Jack x 40
J2M5 Jack x 7
N1K1-J George x 44
N1K2-J George x 16
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 19
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14
Ki-84a Frank x 54
Ki-84r Frank x 26
Ki-102a Randy x 4

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed


This is followed by sweep after sweep. Each doing better and better. This is the last one for the day.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ayuthia , at 56,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 1
J2M3 Jack x 8
J2M5 Jack x 1
N1K1-J George x 20
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 12
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1
Ki-84a Frank x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 11
Ki-102a Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed



When the dust settles 180 Japanese fighters are shot down for 62 allied. This is the final nail in the coffin for the USAAF. 44 P47s are lost on the day and I´m now unable to fill them out. The USAAF pools are now totally empty except for P39s, P40s and some P38s. These planes are unusable at this time and I refuse to put them up on the front lines. Brit pools are in good shape though but they are neutered by their small squadrons sizes. But I´m going to try something new here in a couple of days.

Aces Lost
---------------------
2 Double Aces KIA
3 Double Aces MIA
8 Aces KIA
3 Aces WIA

Aces Gained
---------------------
1 New triple ace
6 New Double aces
7 New aces

This means the allies greatest weapon is now completely neutralised in Thailand. The 4Es are stood down and won´t be able to fly any combat mission in contested airspace. Not until the allied fighter pools have recovered in a months or two.

I decided to halt the crossing. I don´t want to cross into 90.000 japanese soldiers without artillery and engineers. I will merge with the other stack and then cross. I have not decided if I will cross into straight into Bangkok or not.

We did secure our first base in Central Thailand though!

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nakhon Ratchasima (58,61)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 6160 troops, 36 guns, 734 vehicles, Assault Value = 462

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 134

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 134 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Nakhon Ratchasima !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 13 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-) Japanese airpower takes its toll

Assaulting units:
255th Indian Tank Brigade
254th Armoured Brigade
150th RAC Regiment
11th PAVO Regiment


------------------------
Other areas
------------------------
Quiet


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 1971
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 9:51:01 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		With Nakhon Ratchasima taken I wonder if you can isolate Bangkok from the rest of the world with the exception of using the Navy to supply Bangkok? It will be tough to move 90,000 troops anywhere once you have Bangkok isolated ..

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Post #: 1972
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/5/2013 9:58:52 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Time for Plan B.

I'd also support using your Armour to try and cut the LOC and gain some Indo China bases.

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Post #: 1973
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/6/2013 6:21:06 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Plan B is to stop doing air OPS and huddle under AA. But we all know how effective AA is in the game...

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Post #: 1974
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/6/2013 5:23:05 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		6th-7h December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

As the Allies stand down the air force things turn really quiet.

------------------------
Thailand
------------------------
Eriks bombers can now reign free in Thailand. This is dooming my armor breakout as all the units are hit from the air in the open and disruption is slowly but steadily increasing. Some smaller units are already in the 80-90 disruption and are now combat ineffective.

My 4Es switch target to Eriks superstack. They are shielded by the terrain and losses are in two digits despite 600 4Es pounding away. He should shift hex any time now and thats when things will get interesting again.

------------------------
Luzon
------------------------
First reinforcements will land on luzon next turn. 3/4th of a armor unit. I´ll see how Erik responds to this. Luckily the USN has a strong air presence in the area that can cover the landings. 200 Navy fighters are proving LRCAP.

The B29s payed Manila a visit during the night. 4 are lost for little result.

------------------------
Air war
------------------------
I´m switching back to 42 tactics. I´ll jump in and out trying to score easy kills while fighting defensively under radar cover. This means I will have to let Eriks superbases (Manila and Bangkok) with their 7-800 Fighters each be for now.

I downgraded the 6 beat up P47 squadrons to P39s and filled them up with fresh pilots. They will stay on CAP over Rangoon gaining XP. This freed up 34 P47s so I now have a miniscule reserve. I hope to be able to slowly grow this back by downgrading P47s to P51s as the P51s grow back. Currently 28 of them in the pools.

I´m also going to go through my P51 squadrons on map and let the poorest ones downgrade to P38s to free up some P51s. Its a good reality check. I thought I was slowly gaining control in the air war. Good lesson. You can´t beat the Japanese air force.

------------------------
Quickening the pace
------------------------
As Bullwinkle suggested I need to step up the pace. After the Luzon landing I have been halted for too long. I´m looking at ways to speed things up. I need another month or so to get everything in place. Then we go and we will make two massive landings in just a month. At least for now Erik has 70% of the Japanese divisions cut off in Thailand. That can still chance and I need to exploit this opening.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1975
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/6/2013 9:22:02 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Joc, I think things are not as bad in the air as you suggest. Can you use your 4E's to penetrate deeper into his airspace? Make him protect other bases, not just those at the front. That should lessen the concentrations of CAP and take some burden off your fighters. Even if you bomb at night.

I'm with Bullwinkle - from an IJ perspective, your armor terrorizing Indochina would be...well, terrifying. You can save Bangkok for later. If you march all the way to CRB, joining this thrust with landings at Puerto Princesa or somewhere nearby, you can completely cut off his remaining oil. Not to mention whatever troops drown on transports on the way back to the HI.

I would put forth that bottling him up in Bangkok and Malaya is similar to the early war IJ doctrine of bottling the US up at Clark Field/Bataan - you don't need the bases, really, and he can sit there to rot. The inherent supply generation there is not sufficient for the number of units he appears to have defending the area.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1976
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/7/2013 2:59:37 AM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The Allied AC pools are unrealistic when players allow PDU on for the IJ or play a variant that effectively allows the PDU effect or worse.  The pools, I think, were designed around a stock game with PDU off, but few players use that option.  Hence, the IJ air tends to dominate throughout the game rather than just the initial stages when the Zero was dominate.  The fix could be a separate (and increased) Allied pool for use with PDU on, but I have never seen this discussed as a solution.  Had the IJ had the ability to produce AC in such abundance, the Allies would have diverted more AC production for use in the Pacific rather than in Europe. 

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1977
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/7/2013 6:36:37 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Joc, I think things are not as bad in the air as you suggest. Can you use your 4E's to penetrate deeper into his airspace? Make him protect other bases, not just those at the front. That should lessen the concentrations of CAP and take some burden off your fighters. Even if you bomb at night.

I'm with Bullwinkle - from an IJ perspective, your armor terrorizing Indochina would be...well, terrifying. You can save Bangkok for later. If you march all the way to CRB, joining this thrust with landings at Puerto Princesa or somewhere nearby, you can completely cut off his remaining oil. Not to mention whatever troops drown on transports on the way back to the HI.

I would put forth that bottling him up in Bangkok and Malaya is similar to the early war IJ doctrine of bottling the US up at Clark Field/Bataan - you don't need the bases, really, and he can sit there to rot. The inherent supply generation there is not sufficient for the number of units he appears to have defending the area.


The problem is lack of targets. There simply isn´t much within range thats worth bombing. As I lack fighters I cannot protect the bombers and that rules out 95% of the targets. Its not possible to let the 4Es go in unescorted. Even against small number of fighters losses would be too high. My RoT of 1 4E lost for each airborne fighter still applies.

My armor isn´t that terrifying anymore all are above 80 in disruption now and TOEs have dropped to around 50%. I might get a few days respite now though. I managed to ambush Eriks bombers shooting down 250 of them. While the numbers won´t bother him I hope losing the pilots will. And he will need a few days to draw replacements.

Its just that the situation is getting to me. I have 2000 USAAF pilots in the pool. I should have the greatest production capabilities in the world behind my back churning out fighters for them. Instead I find that the only planes I have left are relics from 40-42. I would get that if had been losing the air war from day one. But I havn´t. I have been winning the air war from day one. Very seldom losing more than I have shot down. We are soon in 45 and looking at the numbers I might never get enough fighters to be able to mount a daylight bombing campaign over the HI.

It shouldn´t get to me as I already knew all this. But somehow I had hoped Eriks pilot quality was finally starting to drop and I got my hopes up. Turns out it wasn´t. This I think is the real culprit. Japan's ability to field an endless stream of trained pilots right up to the end. This was introduced in AE with on map training and I think its skewers the whole air war. If Erik was fielding 30-40 EXP pilots now results would be quite different.

I´ll try to adjust accordingly going back to 42 tactics as I said. But its VERY hard trying to play offensively when you don´t have air superiority. Give me 1/4th of the Japanese production and I would be able to put up a fight. But right now I´m stuck with this:

USAAF:
P38 80 planes
P51D 120 planes

Thats it. 200 planes of which 80 are obsolete. These are the guys that are supposed to carry the air war. What is Erik producing right now? 1000 Fighters per month? 1500? And he gets to chose the best so its almost explusively Franks/Sams from now on. Its impossible to compete on those terms. And the USN isn´t much better.

USN:
Corsair: 158
Hellcat: 180.

And the Hellcat is pretty much obsolete right now. Just ranting but the situation is frustrating.


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

The Allied AC pools are unrealistic when players allow PDU on for the IJ or play a variant that effectively allows the PDU effect or worse.  The pools, I think, were designed around a stock game with PDU off, but few players use that option.  Hence, the IJ air tends to dominate throughout the game rather than just the initial stages when the Zero was dominate.  The fix could be a separate (and increased) Allied pool for use with PDU on, but I have never seen this discussed as a solution.  Had the IJ had the ability to produce AC in such abundance, the Allies would have diverted more AC production for use in the Pacific rather than in Europe. 


Yes, you are 100% correct. Somewhere along the line playing with PDU ON has become the norm. Even the devs themselves stated somewhere that the air war is not built for this. Couple PDU ON with unlimited pilots and you get what we are seeing now. The IJ dominates the air war through sheer numbers right up to the end. The "paper 4Es" doesn´t help either.

My next game will be a DBB-C with PDU OFF. Hopefully I can find a Japanese player that would like to try the real deal. Some allied concessions are of course required.

That turned into quite a rant. Sorry folks!


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1978
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/7/2013 10:26:56 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		The only thing allies can hope to achieve is local air superiority. A lot of the decent Japanese aircraft have high service rating so as you know the only thing you can do is sweep, sweep, bomb and keep the local airbase closed. LRCAP is not harmless but it is less effective and vulnerable..

It's the only thing you can do. Allied air strategy? "concentration of force"...

Next time I play a scenario 2 game I'm going consider asking for modified allied production rates or PDU off..

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 10/7/2013 10:29:21 AM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1979
RE: Allies land on Luzon!! - 10/7/2013 10:29:49 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		8th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________

A combination of USAAF, RAF and USN strikes back!

------------------------
Thailand
------------------------
Erik has been a little lax in recon and providing fighter coverage for his bombers. Today we struck back. I have been flying in supply and AS to Pisanuloke for a few days. Yesterday supply was enough to support some LRCAP over our armor.

This is just an example of about 8 strikes intercepted.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Provisionl Tank Brigade, at 61,60 , near Udon Thani

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 59
D4Y1 Judy x 36
D4Y4 Judy x 40

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 19
P-38L Lightning x 24
F4U-1A Corsair x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 8 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 11 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 9 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Provisionl Tank Brigade, at 61,60 , near Udon Thani

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 50
D4Y4 Judy x 43

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 18
P-38L Lightning x 24
F4U-1A Corsair x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 15 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 26 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 12 (10 destroyed, 2 disabled)



Due to the lack of radar and short intercept times a lot of the bombers managed to escape. Nonetheless a very good day as almost 250 Japanese bombers are shot down. I REALLY hope Erik was lazy and didn´t switch out the NAV trained pilots. This was almost a text book example of a classic 42 ambush. I jumped back out to Rangoon with the fighters this turn.

In turn Erik strikes back at the 4Es. He probably has realised my Fighter force is beaten and doesn´t fear a retaliation at Rangoon anymore. Luckily he made 2 mistakes saving me a lot of downed 4Es!

quote:

Morning Air attack on NCAC , at 55,59 , near Tavoy

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 39,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 5
J2M3 Jack x 9
J2M5 Jack x 12
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-84r Frank x 39
Ki-102b Randy x 5

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
39 x Ki-84r Frank sweeping at 38270 feet


This sweep drew in his LRCAP from the 4Es causing fatigue and diminishing his ability to get planes on target.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on 2nd Division, at 55,59 , near Tavoy

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 8
J2M3 Jack x 27
J2M5 Jack x 20
N1K1-J George x 25
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 18
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 16
Ki-84a Frank x 30
Ki-100-I Tony x 31
Ki-102b Randy x 10

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 18
Liberator GR.VI x 10
B-17E Fortress x 5
B-24D1 Liberator x 5
B-24J Liberator x 25
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6
B-25H Mitchell x 8
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 7 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 3 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 1 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x Liberator GR.VI bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 250 lb GP Bomb
8 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-25H Mitchell bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
S-901 Hikotai with A7M2 Sam (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 31000
Raid is overhead
S-316 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
S-309 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
S-402 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (14 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
14 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
S-315 Hikotai with J2M5 Jack (20 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(13 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
20 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
S-317 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (16 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
16 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
21st Sentai with Ki-102b Randy (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
30th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (18 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(11 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
18 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 31000
Raid is overhead
53rd Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (16 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
16 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
64th Sentai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (18 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(9 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
18 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
200th Sentai with Ki-100-I Tony (31 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(15 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
31 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
87th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (12 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
12 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 31000
Raid is overhead


Mistake number 2. His planes are up too high probable fearing the sweeps that never came. This is the first of perhaps 20 strikes. His planes only managed to intercept the 4Es on a few occasion. And when he did he got only a few passes before the 4Es got away. The damage listed are actually from his AA. How he can stay in supply is beyond me. Its crazy. No transports intercepted despite several days of LRCAP.

I was very lucky today and only 15 4Es are lost and about 40 2Es. Very few pilots lost and the 2E pool can sustain the losses.

------------------------
Luzon
------------------------
Erik did go after the reinforcement convoy. I don´t know if this was intentional though. This is the first of 4 strikes. None penetrated.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Boac at 80,80

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 21
N1K2-J George x 27

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 53
P-38L Lightning x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 36
F6F-5 Hellcat x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 11 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 11 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


I hope this will persuade Erik to stop trying. It was a very small TF. Only 7 LSTs and 3 SCs with 3/4ths of a Tank BTL. I will continue to reinforce in this manner until Erik simply gives up. If he continue to do this I´ll be quite happy with that too!

------------------------
Aces
------------------------
Gained:
1 triple ace
2 double ace
14 aces
1 "ace in a day"

Lost
1 ace WIA






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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1980
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