Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

The only thing allies can hope to achieve is local air superiority. A lot of the decent Japanese aircraft have high service rating so as you know the only thing you can do is sweep, sweep, bomb and keep the local airbase closed. LRCAP is not harmless but it is less effective and vulnerable..

It's the only thing you can do. Allied air strategy? "concentration of force"...

Next time I play a scenario 2 game I'm going consider asking for modified allied production rates or PDU off..

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Can you remind us which scenario this is?

Roger

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ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I agree ops losses for transports are terrible. I can understand if they were all flying the hump but not all of mine are. I kinda agree that the ac numbers are a downer. Maybe we should start a thread and have guys from both sides hash out some ac numbers for the allies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I share you sentiment on PDU OFF. Or somehow limiting the number of Japanese pilots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I agree ops losses for transports are terrible. I can understand if they were all flying the hump but not all of mine are. I kinda agree that the ac numbers are a downer. Maybe we should start a thread and have guys from both sides hash out some ac numbers for the allies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Does the initial experience of Japanese pilots decrease as the war goes on? I mean, towards the end, the Japanese were putting pilots in the air that barely had more than a few hours of flying time....so, say in mid-1944, if the Japanese player has sustained massive losses, the new pilots in the pool start off with experience of like 20 or 30, for example? Perhaps decreasing as low as 10 in some cases, for really massive losses over and over again?

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Does the initial experience of Japanese pilots decrease as the war goes on? I mean, towards the end, the Japanese were putting pilots in the air that barely had more than a few hours of flying time....so, say in mid-1944, if the Japanese player has sustained massive losses, the new pilots in the pool start off with experience of like 20 or 30, for example? Perhaps decreasing as low as 10 in some cases, for really massive losses over and over again?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Or not agreeing to HRs which neuter Allied models that really could do that.

Just sayin'.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Or not agreeing to HRs which neuter Allied models that really could do that.

Just sayin'.

Not sure what you mean by this?

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

P47s are at 42k. This HR has been a big help for me in 43 and 44. So it doesnt explain the result. I would be worse off without it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

P47s are at 42k. This HR has been a big help for me in 43 and 44. So it doesnt explain the result. I would be worse off without it.

Clearly then I don't understand your HR. 42k is the max altitude for the P-47. How is that the second-best MV band? The last modifier is at "greater than 32k feet."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I think there is an opportunity to look at the big picture. maybe an IJFB can chime in but given the level of IJ fighter production and losses about how much HI would the IJ typically have saved? Joc should have the world cut off and the IJ should be using the HI reserves at this point? I would assume that the IJ economy is about to have its day of reckoning ?

quote:

I think there is an opportunity to look at the big picture. maybe an IJFB can chime in but given the level of IJ fighter production and losses about how much HI would the IJ typically have saved? Joc should have the world cut off and the IJ should be using the HI reserves at this point? I would assume that the IJ economy is about to have its day of reckoning ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Also, I agree with Bullwinkle a bit here. You could use other good planes at high altitudes if you weren't restricted to second-best rating. For example, the F4U-1D has a max alt of 39.3, which is still slightly higher than the -84r Frank and it's SR1 vs. the Frank's 3. Likewise, your P-38s are being prevented from doing their historical job as well by that HR - they have max alts near 40k, but their second-best band tops out at 31k. But you're 3 years in, so we can discuss that in a different thread/game ;).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Judging by the air losses... from what I can see in the screenshot a couple of posts up, adding up all of the IJ planes listed in the second screenshot is a total of 23,818 engines. That's 857,448 HI spent. There are 10891 IJ aircraft unaccounted for. Assuming half of those are 2E (Netties?), 40% 1E (Vals, Rufes, etc.), and 10% 4E flying boats (Obvert has used them a lot, unsure if 110 is a reasonable number for their losses)... That still only totals about 1.5M HI. For 3 years of game time (1098 turns?), that's not TOO much. 1366 HI per day. With Scen 1 pilot training costs, I think Obvert can afford this.

Perhaps part of the problem, Joc, is that you're fighting over his bases a lot with sweeps, so his pilot losses are much lower than they otherwise would be? As for operating outside of air cover, are you playing with the database fixes? They make AAA much deadlier, and if he wants to inflict any kind of real losses on your LCUs from the air it's going to require planes, blood, and supplies that he may not be able to afford. Even IJAAF humble 2E bombing campaigns just burn up the supply. In an AI game not so long ago, I was bombing daily with ~500 IJAAF 2Es, all Helens/Sallys. The supply required numbers at their airbases jumped to a total of ~40k between them. If he wants to expend that amount of supply now (not to mention the HI to replace the planes, and the hard-to-replace pilots), it's going to really hurt him later.


RE: pool levels in general -

You're in the "dead zone" for the P-47 right now, aren't you? I just loaded up a game from the Allied side. The P-47D25 stops being replaced in 6/44, and the P-47N doesn't start until 3/45. I think I remember seeing this pop up in other threads.

You just started receiving the P-51D at 120/mo and the F4U-1D at 158. Maybe it's time to let the USMC pilots take over a bit of the burden?

Also, I agree with Bullwinkle a bit here. You could use other good planes at high altitudes if you weren't restricted to second-best rating. For example, the F4U-1D has a max alt of 39.3, which is still slightly higher than the -84r Frank and it's SR1 vs. the Frank's 3. Likewise, your P-38s are being prevented from doing their historical job as well by that HR - they have max alts near 40k, but their second-best band tops out at 31k. But you're 3 years in, so we can discuss that in a different thread/game ;).

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Having a HR for max ceiling based on 2nd best maneuver band puts a further restriction on Allied fighters. The Allied fighters maneuver better at their max than Japanese as far as I can recall.

I would ask for an end to this HR now. Both sides need to see if this is a good or bad thing to have. In my PBEM, we did one based on the date. So, when '44 rolls around, neither side will have any restriction. If I remember right, MichaelM added an increase to fatigue levels when you fly above 31k.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I never really grasped this HR until now. I'll never play with it, so for me it's academic. But, depending on the plane, it forces some really bizarre behaviors, especially in the second-generation Allied fighters. It requires some planes to sweep at max altitude even if the player would rather not for various coordination reasons. This is a huge advantage on bouncing, but after they dive on the bounce they're fighting in a great MV band the rest of the fight. So the HR gives with both hands. As you say, the P-38 is a really odd duck with this HR. For at least one of the P-47s it doesn't matter; there's no MV penalty at any altitude. And so on.

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ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

I think there is an opportunity to look at the big picture. maybe an IJFB can chime in but given the level of IJ fighter production and losses about how much HI would the IJ typically have saved? Joc should have the world cut off and the IJ should be using the HI reserves at this point? I would assume that the IJ economy is about to have its day of reckoning ?

It is impossible to make even an educated guess from the outside looking in. At its peak, Japanese fuel production is about 10 million per year and Japan starts with about 6 million stockpiles (including oil stock).

Depending how much naval movement there has been, and how quickly the Japanese navy shrunk, 8 to 12 million might be spent by the Navy by now. Depending how much the naval programme was curtailed could make a lot of difference as well. So any estimate is going to be +/- a few million and 1 million HI represents 20,000 aircraft. I.e. the total aircraft build falls within the margin of error in estimating HI.

To give a feel for just how variable it is, there are 5 Tonan Whaler TK, if these have all been sunk laden with fuel that is about 1500 aircraft less built then if they were sunk heading back empty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Judging by the air losses... from what I can see in the screenshot a couple of posts up, adding up all of the IJ planes listed in the second screenshot is a total of 23,818 engines. That's 857,448 HI spent. There are 10891 IJ aircraft unaccounted for. Assuming half of those are 2E (Netties?), 40% 1E (Vals, Rufes, etc.), and 10% 4E flying boats (Obvert has used them a lot, unsure if 110 is a reasonable number for their losses)... That still only totals about 1.5M HI. For 3 years of game time (1098 turns?), that's not TOO much. 1366 HI per day. With Scen 1 pilot training costs, I think Obvert can afford this.

Perhaps part of the problem, Joc, is that you're fighting over his bases a lot with sweeps, so his pilot losses are much lower than they otherwise would be? As for operating outside of air cover, are you playing with the database fixes? They make AAA much deadlier, and if he wants to inflict any kind of real losses on your LCUs from the air it's going to require planes, blood, and supplies that he may not be able to afford. Even IJAAF humble 2E bombing campaigns just burn up the supply. In an AI game not so long ago, I was bombing daily with ~500 IJAAF 2Es, all Helens/Sallys. The supply required numbers at their airbases jumped to a total of ~40k between them. If he wants to expend that amount of supply now (not to mention the HI to replace the planes, and the hard-to-replace pilots), it's going to really hurt him later.


RE: pool levels in general -

You're in the "dead zone" for the P-47 right now, aren't you? I just loaded up a game from the Allied side. The P-47D25 stops being replaced in 6/44, and the P-47N doesn't start until 3/45. I think I remember seeing this pop up in other threads.

You just started receiving the P-51D at 120/mo and the F4U-1D at 158. Maybe it's time to let the USMC pilots take over a bit of the burden?

Also, I agree with Bullwinkle a bit here. You could use other good planes at high altitudes if you weren't restricted to second-best rating. For example, the F4U-1D has a max alt of 39.3, which is still slightly higher than the -84r Frank and it's SR1 vs. the Frank's 3. Likewise, your P-38s are being prevented from doing their historical job as well by that HR - they have max alts near 40k, but their second-best band tops out at 31k. But you're 3 years in, so we can discuss that in a different thread/game ;).

Thanks for the input Lokasenna!

I havn´t actually been sweeping his bases since a few months back. He withdrew to Bangkok/Manila 2-3 months ago. After that I have been sweeping his LRCAP. Often over his troops though. Don´t know if that helps with pilots losses or if its own bases only?

I just did a quick and dirty count on HI costs. Assuming Erik has about 3 million HI in the bank now. If he spend 2 million of those on fighters alone thats 36 HI per plane right? So he can make 11.000 fighters just using HI in that is currently "in the bank"? Would this be a fairly accurate assumption?

You are right about the P47. But I have been really restrictive in my use of them and had a good pool of 450 P47s when the -25 version stopped running. The last 4 weeks just drained them including some 250 more that was in squadrons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Plus he has to account for "Are the B-29s going to torch my factories?"