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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 7:50:23 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

NP. I now have more spare time to think of these things...until my next game starts!


How long do you think before the itch gets too strong? I mean. What do you do at night when you suddenly don´t have to do turns? Or update the AAR?

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 7:53:18 AM   
Speedysteve

 

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Well it's not that bad as I've been playing a second game for the past 6 months or so. So I'm still playing AE and I expect my other game to start (against my Dad with me playing Japanese - a first for me in AE) in the next few weeks or so. I'm unsure if I'll do an AAR for either of these games as it takes a lot of time

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 8:01:57 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Yeah, It sure does. I also have a second game running. Lot slower then this one though. I hope once this game is over we can pick the pace up to 1 turn per day at least. I´m actually looking forward to getting this game wrapped up. Even though the 2nd baby will take a lot of time I hope to start playing some other games. Been itching to try the following Matrix games.
- Pandora First contact.
- Flashpoints: Red storm
- Command Modern air/naval combat.

Probably going to try Pandora first of them as I can use a break from conventional wargaming.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 8:04:17 AM   
Speedysteve

 

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I'll be getting a PS4 soon so that will take up some time too!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 8:13:18 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I'll be getting a PS4 soon so that will take up some time too!


I would love to. But the missus think there are more important things to buy. Like a trolley that can take both babies. Strange priorities if you ask me...

Interestingly enough you can by 2-3 PS4 for the price of ONE dual carriage trolley. Insane!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 8:42:27 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Well, turn is up and it will be a bit of anxious waiting.

I´ve decided to let Erik have the silly 8 hex strike. But he will only get it against the LSTs and AKs. There are troops aboard the AKs but they unload pretty fast in those and with the added Naval support at Naha all troops should be off by the morning.

With a bit of luck Erik will have his strike planes gutted for the price of a bunch of LSTs and AKs and some supply. I can live with that... I have a reserve supply convoy two days out if that happens.

1200 Fighters on the CV Fleet are set with 80% CAP and 1 hex range. Fleet takes position 9 hexes from the guessed Japanese strike position. 36 Fletchers in 3 TFs are tasked with protecting the landing from surface threats. 8 Subs are still lingering in the area. Moonlight is only 3%. Ideal Fletcher habitat!

Fingers crossed. I hope Erik can get me the CR pretty soon. But worst case I won´t have it until tonight.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 9:48:08 AM   
Encircled


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Joc, there are really good deals on double baby carriers on e-bay.

We got ours on it, and sold it on again once both boys could walk for the same price, and in pretty much the same condition.



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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 12:59:05 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Joc, there are really good deals on double baby carriers on e-bay.

We got ours on it, and sold it on again once both boys could walk for the same price, and in pretty much the same condition.


We have been very active on Swedens biggest secondhand site. But you have to call/email the second a new one goes up or its already gone. Havn´t checked e-bay though!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 3:42:27 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Joc, there are really good deals on double baby carriers on e-bay.

We got ours on it, and sold it on again once both boys could walk for the same price, and in pretty much the same condition.


We have been very active on Swedens biggest secondhand site. But you have to call/email the second a new one goes up or its already gone. Havn´t checked e-bay though!


You could go troll the nearest playground. By that time moms have stuff to sell from the baby phase. Or go the barter route. Just make up a sandwich board and walk around . . .

"Will wire in trade."

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 4:06:43 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Haha, that might work!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 4:27:22 PM   
Encircled


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When I first started reading the Moose's post, I dreaded that he was suggesting nicking one!

Phew!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/2/2013 4:32:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

When I first started reading the Moose's post, I dreaded that he was suggesting nicking one!

Phew!


Now there's a thought...

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 4:18:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Got the turn from Erik too late yesterday for me to send it back to him. Looks like some staff monkey messed up the settings because nothing unloaded at Naha. Head will roll!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 5:58:26 AM   
witpqs


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Have you hired one of Cap Mandrake's staff away from him?

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 6:46:01 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Have you hired one of Cap Mandrake's staff away from him?


I´m starting to suspect he is sending his most incompetent officers over to my staff! I clearly remember giving the order for the unloading at Naha. Yet they are still set to follow the fleet. Utter incompetence!


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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 8:25:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

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To my great amazement I just watched as a bomber penetrated the Allied CAP and got shot down by Flak. Further investigation showed that Erik all of the sudden have abandoned our prior agreement not to go down this low.

I talked to him about it and he said the following:

quote:

If you look back a ways, all of the strikes lately that have come from those errant Frances were at 1k. Most of them have been completely dispatched by the uber-CAP over the Allied fleet. I'm not sure this is really a thing I can change at this point in game. Detection time is probably showing the difficulty radars of that time had in picking up low flying planes. I've read Cruft's AAR from the beginning and his entire strategy is based on massed strikes of LBA. Lets just go forward and see how it goes. I don't think the Allies are having too much trouble lately, right?


So much for "communicating" things in advance eh? . This is quite worrying as there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to defend against this. He will avoid most of the CAP and get to the ships. There are no settings in the world that can change this as the engine can´t cope with the low detection times and often send the CAP up to maximum altitude.

EDIT: Removed the strike since its a Kami one and doesn´t abide by the same rules as a normal naval strike.

All I can do is put more planes down on the deck. Cross my fingers and hope flak can deal with it.

I will swapped all the pilots on the 120 attack bombers from NavBomb to LowNav. Looks like I finally got a use for all those B29 LowNav bombers...

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 12/3/2013 12:04:48 PM >

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 9:25:59 AM   
JocMeister

 

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17th March 1945
______________________________________________________________________________

I´m struggling with that disinterest for the game that always hits me after a major OP. Not sure why that always happens. Usually I get back into it after a couple of days. Perhaps its not just me?

------------------------
Destination Okinawa
------------------------

As mentioned earlier for some reason the orders to unload at Naha was never executed. So the transports sat with the fleet one hex outside Naha. They will go in tomorrow. All CAP is set at a range of 1. My 3 best fighter squadrons will provide dedicated LRCAP. Hopefully Erik will try for that 8 hex strike. I´m pretty certain the troops will have time to unload during the night. At worst there will be some motorized support left.

Sadly my planes decides to take off after some empty transports costing my almost 100 planes. This is the first strike of three.

quote:

]Morning Air attack on TF, near Tokara Retto at 100,62

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 32
Ki-84r Frank x 27


Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 27
F6F-5 Hellcat x 41
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 26


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 8 destroyed
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged


Japanese Ships
xAP Ural Maru, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Nanman Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Saipan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Tsingtao Maru, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
xAP Baikal Maru, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Tango Maru


------------------------
China
------------------------

Ah, sadly Eriks troops got away to Nanning after taking another tremendous pounding from the air. I´ve decided to risk the crossing. It quite a big risk but the superstack must be hurting badly after the areal strikes suffering something like 7000 losses in two days. The bombers will continue tomorrow. I don´t want to go around along the coast. It will take forever. I need to keep pressure up.

I´ll be shocking into 150.000 troops. Possible with pretty high forts...not feeling very confident I´ll admit.



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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 9:38:49 AM   
koniu


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quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Naha at 95,67

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 3

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 95
Corsair IV x 51
Hellcat I x 7
Seafire IIC x 10
Seafire L.III x 3
F4U-1A Corsair x 55
F4U-1D Corsair x 453
F6F-3 Hellcat x 137
F6F-5 Hellcat x 198

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DE Marsh

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Ki-67-Ib Peggy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb


Note that this is kamikaze attack.
Whatever altitude Obvert will set them they will always attack at 100Ft.(similar to torpedo attack)
Also i read somewhere that approach altitude is always 11k and setting kami unit on different altitude will not change that. it is hardcoded
Probably Your radar detect them when they where already going down to attack altitude or this is just FOW


< Message edited by koniu -- 12/3/2013 10:40:14 AM >


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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 9:43:12 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Note that this is kamikaze attack.
Whatever altitude Obvert will set them they will always attack at 100Ft.(similar to torpedo attack)
Also i read somewhere that approach altitude is always 11k and setting kami unit on different altitude will not change that. it is hardcoded
Probably Your radar detect them when they where already going down to attack altitude or this is just FOW


Didn´t consider that. Good point!

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 1:06:05 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

I´ll be shocking into 150.000 troops. Possible with pretty high forts...not feeling very confident I´ll admit


It might be very important to keep bombing Nanning [as you will I know] but especially the day of the actual crossing / shock attack.
Not so much for casualties but disruption and supply. It seems that % of disruption is a direct modifier of both
AV [getting the IJ to retreat from those forts] and Firepower, and this result has got to be assumed as you
because as know it is not reported in the CR. [Just a reminder .. ]

But all those 2E's and 4E's have to produce a lot of disruption Now we pray to Odin that your planes bomb on the
turn of the crossing ...

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 1:50:06 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Note that this is kamikaze attack.
Whatever altitude Obvert will set them they will always attack at 100Ft.(similar to torpedo attack)
Also i read somewhere that approach altitude is always 11k and setting kami unit on different altitude will not change that. it is hardcoded
Probably Your radar detect them when they where already going down to attack altitude or this is just FOW


Didn´t consider that. Good point!


I wonder when this was hardcoded ... after Nemo demonstrating the effectiveness of Kami's in a layered approach of ~40K feet to 100 feet -- splitting CAP?
If so .. you know what altitude Kami's will start their run ...

In my opinion, Kami's point out a problem in detection at the target hex .. you can roll over a bunch of DD screens with no detection to suddenly surprise the target TF

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 1:55:34 PM   
paullus99


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Of course, that was the whole point of those lone or small groups of DEs that the US Navy put out there...to give advanced warning of air raids and kamikazes.....too bad that isn't modeled in the game.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 2:10:41 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Of course, that was the whole point of those lone or small groups of DEs that the US Navy put out there...to give advanced warning of air raids and kamikazes.....too bad that isn't modeled in the game.


I have already gotten into religious arguments deteriorating into personal attacks with members of this forum ...
simply the current model is not going to change ... so one has to forget history or common sense and figure out an optimal strategy
I am not sure yet if the game solution is one huge stack when facing Kami's .. that is multiple TF's in one hex with bleeding CAP or multiple CVE TF's Splitting attacks up that when combined with uncoordinated attacks produce an attack profile that cannot overwhelm flak.
Jury is still out for me ...

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 4:52:02 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I´ll be shocking into 150.000 troops. Possible with pretty high forts...not feeling very confident I´ll admit


It might be very important to keep bombing Nanning [as you will I know] but especially the day of the actual crossing / shock attack.
Not so much for casualties but disruption and supply. It seems that % of disruption is a direct modifier of both
AV [getting the IJ to retreat from those forts] and Firepower, and this result has got to be assumed as you
because as know it is not reported in the CR. [Just a reminder .. ]

But all those 2E's and 4E's have to produce a lot of disruption Now we pray to Odin that your planes bomb on the
turn of the crossing ...


Yeah, My plan is to pound them from the air up until the crossing. But results this turn was pretty disappointing. Only 350-450 casualties from 800 planes...it was thunderstorms raging though. But it could potentially mean VERY high forts. The terrain is "only" x2. I´m going to give it another day and hope for better weather...If things doesn´t improve I might cancel the crossing...


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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 4:56:02 PM   
Crackaces


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There is always crossing at another point while keeping the forces pinned at Nanning ... In fact, securing the hexsides might be prudent if a siege develops ..

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 4:58:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Yeah, Thing is time. I can always go south along the coast and veer north later. But its slow going on those roads...I was hoping to gain some here. But I don´t want to wreck myself to buy two weeks. Because if I do I´ll be stuck at Nanning instead.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/3/2013 6:10:40 PM   
JocMeister

 

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To tired to do the update tonight. Not much interference with the Naha unloading. Must troops are off but some guns and motorized support are still on the ships. I decided to hang around another day.


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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/4/2013 5:13:25 AM   
JocMeister

 

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18th-19th March 1945
______________________________________________________________________________

New day, new energy!

------------------------
Destination Okinawa
------------------------

On the 18th we sink an entire Japanese convoy just North of Okinawa. At first I thought it might have been a failed CAP trap but its too far out from CAP to be that. So most likely this was a mistake of some sort.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 95,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 116
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 37
TBM-3 Avenger x 31


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AMC Bankok Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Asaka Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
AV Sanyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

AK Goyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
AK Kirishima Maru, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Kimikawa Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
AK Amagisan Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

AK Awazisan Maru, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Kyushu Maru, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AK Yamasimo Maru, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
E W-24, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 95,61

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 28

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AMC Bankok Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AK Kirishima Maru, and is sunk
AK Awazisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AV Hokuroku Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Hiburi, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Etoforu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Kunashiri, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage




Good haul of ships. Those AKs are no doubt still very useful for him. On the 19th everything is unloaded and we now have 150k supply and a 350 plane CAP up. I have mines and some big CD guns in place but as we all know by now that no protection from bombardments. So I´m going to keep the fleet a couple of hexes south of Okinawa. If Erik decide to try a naval bombardment it will be very risky for him. I have 2 Fletcher TFs covering Naha + 6 subs and some PTs. This will probably be enough to slow him down enough so he will be within range of the CVs in the morning.

Using the Allied capabilities to stay at sea indefinitely is a blessing. Sorties and planes are replenished whenever needed.

The KB (or parts of it) is on station between China and Formosa. Not sure what the intention is with this. There are still 1500 Fighters on station on Formosa.

I´m going to move more stuff in to Okinawa in the coming weeks. The method I used with cheap ships covered by the fleet will be used this time too. So LSTs and AKs will be used. I´ll also stationing more PTs and an AGP in place. Once Nago is in control and built up too its time to start thinking about the next set of invasions in the chain.

The first attack on Nago did well but failed to take the base. We are resting FAT and DIS and will have another go in a couple of days.

quote:

Ground combat at Nago (95,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 90420 troops, 1754 guns, 1498 vehicles, Assault Value = 4038

Defending force 18755 troops, 443 guns, 128 vehicles, Assault Value = 290

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 1668

Japanese adjusted defense: 610

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3957 casualties reported
Squads: 62 destroyed, 197 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 101 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 37 disabled
Guns lost 113 (33 destroyed, 80 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (2 destroyed, 14 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1388 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 215 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 30 (2 destroyed, 28 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)







Attachment (1)

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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/4/2013 5:18:57 AM   
JocMeister

 

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China
______________________________________________________________________________

I´m starting to get doubts about the crossing. Looks like Erik reinforced with 30.000 men. On top of that the strikes rained in today...

I´m going to give it one more day before cancelling the crossing. Its really important I don´t wreck my troops for nothing.




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RE: Battle for Okinawa! - 12/4/2013 5:45:17 AM   
JocMeister

 

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P47N
______________________________________________________________________________

First two squadrons are upgraded! With a 460 MPH max speed these are killers. I only get 100 per months but they will boost the CAP defense significantly.

We have had no air combat since Eriks last failed attempts with the Ki-83. The air war have turned in to a snooze fest. I can´t sustain any losses and Erik is unwilling to sustain them so we both do nothing.

Not how it should be IMO...its just boring. For both sides. Another point to consider when arguing in favor of PDU ON and the completely unhistorical Japanese air industry. Whats the point of having it when the allied side is so completely outnumbered the only thing that makes sense is to avoid combat? So the Japanese player sit there with thousands of planes and pilots and nothing for them to do. There has to be a balance in this or its pointless and becomes boring for both players. I havn´t asked Erik but I bet he finds this situation pretty boring too.

I´ve shun air battle like the plague for 3-4 months now. With the exception of clearing the skies over Manila I have done NOTHING offensively besides hitting thin air in advance for the bombers. Despite that my pools are still only good enough for two, perhaps 3 days of fighting.

Pool numbers (Fighters):
P51: 120
P38: 340 (this plane is only good for escort)
P47D25: 90
P47N: 10

Corsair 1D: 105
Corsair 1A: 320 (This is the only fighter most of the USMC can use without paying PPs so I´m very careful with this model)
Hellcat-5: 600 (Mostly used for escort. So this can be drained in one CV battle)

Pool numbers (Bombers):
B24: 12
B29-1: 12
B29-25: 4
B29B: 0
"2Es": 200 in various models




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 12/4/2013 6:48:50 AM >

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