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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

 
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 2:03:05 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

My 2 cents here is if a title released more than 5 years ago,reduce the price,but with Matrix ,never ...


Bairdlander,

Are we not, at the moment, in the Holiday Sale period?

Best wishes,
Steve


At a quick count, 106 SKUs at 30-35%ish discount.

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 151
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 7:11:53 PM   
bean5671


Posts: 90
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline 		fact

I own 15 matrix titles and will be getting 3 or 4 more for xmas if my wife listens to me (yea right)

I will not buy a single game that requires steam

you can release it on steam but do not require me to have a steam account to play it
I will not create a steam account until they allow family accounts ie I play one game under my account on my pc my son plays another game under the same account on his laptop, my youngest plays yet a different game under my account on a third PC
I got banned from the steam forums for just asking if this was possible before I created an account

I will buy the game once install it on all my machines (5) and everyone in my household can play it

that is why i will not buy anygame the requires a steam account





< Message edited by bean5671 -- 12/9/2013 8:13:07 PM >

(in reply to Rocko911)
Post #: 152
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 7:17:09 PM   
bean5671


Posts: 90
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline 		dub deleted

< Message edited by bean5671 -- 12/9/2013 8:19:34 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 153
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 7:18:35 PM   
bean5671


Posts: 90
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline 		this is why i will not use steam I have kids steam needs to allow sub accounts
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

personally I have no issues with Steam. The only pain is because I didn't think ahead I bought games for my daughter under my account which ha snow been hijacked by her. So when she is on I can't play. Thats my only issue. I've got many games that cost buttons, ones I'd never have paid full price for but did when they where heavily reduced. So Steam really doesn't bother me at all. All publishers can be looked at in a negative way as their a middle man between the talent and the customer.


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 154
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 8:37:25 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		Hypothetically speaking, if Matrix games sold like hot-cakes on Steam and they were asked by Steam to make their products exclusive to them, I have no doubt they would do so. Who could blame them? After all they are running a business and not a charity. The bottom line dictates their priorities too.

Steam wouldn't bother me so bad if you were given a working copy of your game in the event of them failing. I have about 10 games from Gamerssgate, and to be honest, Im not sure how long they are going to last considering Steams hold on the market. What will become of those games I purchased? The same could very well happen to Steam in the future. Not likely anytime soon, but things change.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to bean5671)
Post #: 155
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 8:44:03 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Hypothetically speaking, if Matrix games sold like hot-cakes on Steam and they were asked by Steam to make their products exclusive to them, I have no doubt they would do so. Who could blame them? After all they are running a business and not a charity. The bottom line dictates their priorities too.

Steam wouldn't bother me so bad if you were given a working copy of your game in the event of them failing. I have about 10 games from Gamerssgate, and to be honest, Im not sure how long they are going to last considering Steams hold on the market. What will become of those games I purchased? The same could very well happen to Steam in the future. Not likely anytime soon, but things change.



I think at some point Steam the Store will need to be separated from Steam the Distribution channel/DRM/Multiplayer framework. That's a legitimate long-term concern for the future of the industry and it's going to be awkward for Valve as a company.

But the reason that problem exists is because Steam is just a hundred times more convenient than anything else around.

e: I don't think Valve have ever asked for exclusives. Paradox are moving over because it's a terrible business decision to spend 50% of their time working on patches for a version of their games that 5-10% of their users use. Other people (CA, Firaxis) are making the jump because the bundle of goodness that Steamworks offers (plug-in multiplayer frameworks, non-intrusive DRM, Steam Workshop) is just too much to pass up on.

< Message edited by Alchenar -- 12/9/2013 9:49:35 PM >

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 156
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 9:54:21 PM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bean5671
this is why i will not use steam I have kids steam needs to allow sub accounts

"Family sharing" is a thing that's currently in testing for just this reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
Hypothetically speaking, if Matrix games sold like hot-cakes on Steam and they were asked by Steam to make their products exclusive to them, I have no doubt they would do so. Who could blame them? After all they are running a business and not a charity. The bottom line dictates their priorities too.

Steam wouldn't bother me so bad if you were given a working copy of your game in the event of them failing. I have about 10 games from Gamerssgate, and to be honest, Im not sure how long they are going to last considering Steams hold on the market. What will become of those games I purchased? The same could very well happen to Steam in the future. Not likely anytime soon, but things change.

For what it's worth, there are more than a few games that run on absolute-zero DRM even if they're bought/run through Steam - as in you can copy the folder off, put it on a thumbdrive and play it elsewhere without going through the client (which is incidentally more than I can say for Matrix's system).

This is obviously not a foolproof solution, especially since more and more games are pure Steamworks, and doesn't help you retain an installer for the game, but the tech to strip away the dependency on Steam altogether does exist.

(in reply to bean5671)
Post #: 157
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 10:24:24 PM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Gamersgate and Gog for that matter are likely safe for awhile. While steam has a huge hold of the market the digital distribution market as a whole has been growing steadily for several years. gamers and gog could be in trouble but my bet is it will be a few years until that happens. Once the market stops growing and begins consolidating that's when those firms will likely be in trouble.

GamersGate does a couple of things that I really like, they either give you the exec and that lets you keep a backup of the game, or they give you a code which is activated on Steam thus negating the risk of Steam taking out GamersGate.

However right now digital distribution is much like the cellphone market was in the 90s and early 2000s, the market is growing rapidly and everyone big and small seems to be benefiting from that, once saturation hits then Steam will be the Verizon/AT&T to the market while the other guys will be like a US Cellular or other regional carriers which either have been or are being squeezed out of the market. Still a few years away from that probably though.

The platforms in more immediate danger likely are Stormpowered and other very small digital platforms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Hypothetically speaking, if Matrix games sold like hot-cakes on Steam and they were asked by Steam to make their products exclusive to them, I have no doubt they would do so. Who could blame them? After all they are running a business and not a charity. The bottom line dictates their priorities too.

Steam wouldn't bother me so bad if you were given a working copy of your game in the event of them failing. I have about 10 games from Gamerssgate, and to be honest, Im not sure how long they are going to last considering Steams hold on the market. What will become of those games I purchased? The same could very well happen to Steam in the future. Not likely anytime soon, but things change.


< Message edited by flanyboy -- 12/9/2013 11:28:55 PM >

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 158
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 10:25:07 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

(which is incidentally more than I can say for Matrix's system)


You clearly don't know what you are talking about. There are no such restrictions on any Matrix games.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to gradenko2k)
Post #: 159
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 10:31:02 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		As I stated previously, I was late to the party with Steam, but I have bought several in the past year, 2 this past week. I bought 2 huge games with tons of content for $40.

Again, if they gave me the executable I'd be much happier to spend my money there.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 160
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 11:42:36 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

As I stated previously, I was late to the party with Steam, but I have bought several in the past year, 2 this past week. I bought 2 huge games with tons of content for $40.

Again, if they gave me the executable I'd be much happier to spend my money there.


I used to feel this way, but then looking back on it there was a tipping point (probably around a Christmas sale where I got something like 5 games for £20) where suddenly a majority of the games I was actively playing were through Steam and then using anything else just becomes a (minor) hassle.

It's just like moving your music collection from stacks of dozens of CDs/records to a huge portion of your hard-drive to Spotify. Every time you make that leap you get the sense of losing your grip on 'owning' something tangible but actually once you get over it you realise the massive convenience is worth it.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 161
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/9/2013 11:56:45 PM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Yes and no, it's certainly true in the short term. The interesting thing will be how consumers react to the inevitable closing of one of the larger streaming services where customers have built up a library that would vanish in an instant. That's something that's really yet to happen but at some point it will.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

As I stated previously, I was late to the party with Steam, but I have bought several in the past year, 2 this past week. I bought 2 huge games with tons of content for $40.

Again, if they gave me the executable I'd be much happier to spend my money there.


I used to feel this way, but then looking back on it there was a tipping point (probably around a Christmas sale where I got something like 5 games for £20) where suddenly a majority of the games I was actively playing were through Steam and then using anything else just becomes a (minor) hassle.

It's just like moving your music collection from stacks of dozens of CDs/records to a huge portion of your hard-drive to Spotify. Every time you make that leap you get the sense of losing your grip on 'owning' something tangible but actually once you get over it you realise the massive convenience is worth it.


(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 162
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 2:36:11 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

quote:

(which is incidentally more than I can say for Matrix's system)


You clearly don't know what you are talking about. There are no such restrictions on any Matrix games.


He's talking baloney as these games though they exist are ancient games of the past or 3rd party indie games that nobody's heard of or better yet.... wants. Certainly no AAA titles or more recent mainstream games. Plus he's talking about Matrix's games drm which they do have and these no name games or ancient rejects don't have any cd code to put in.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 163
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 2:40:21 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

As I stated previously, I was late to the party with Steam, but I have bought several in the past year, 2 this past week. I bought 2 huge games with tons of content for $40.

Again, if they gave me the executable I'd be much happier to spend my money there.


What you bought was merely a license to play a game, if you had actually bought the game you would have the right an ability to sell it. If you read the EULA of Steam you do not have that right or ownership of the game. Most people don't read the fine print and that is why they praise steam so. You have a library of licenses, but you do not have a library of owned games. Steam can take them away from you at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 164
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 2:58:39 AM   
t001001001

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline 		Steam is convenient. You don't have to run the steam client... - unless ur using it to install a game u bought onto another computer. Or something crazy like that....

Anyway. When I see a game I want, I search first to see if it's on steam. It's so easy to buy from them and every game I ever bought is on file and downloadable to any PC I own.


I will not buy a single game that requires steam

You prolly will eventually And then you'll realize it's nothing but a convenient store of gaming

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 165
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 3:16:33 AM   
bean5671


Posts: 90
Joined: 5/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: t001001001

Steam is convenient. You don't have to run the steam client... - unless ur using it to install a game u bought onto another computer. Or something crazy like that....

Anyway. When I see a game I want, I search first to see if it's on steam. It's so easy to buy from them and every game I ever bought is on file and downloadable to any PC I own.


I will not buy a single game that requires steam

You prolly will eventually And then you'll realize it's nothing but a convenient store of gaming




no i will not, steam = DRM to me!!
i got stung by starforce years ago and will not buy anything that has DRM
this coming from a guy that works for Autodesk is a bit hypocritical i know lol
take CIV 5 and homefront I have both paid for both but run them without steam it takes a little work but it can be done i will not install DRM of anytype on my system i will buy the game and crack it myself or find a cracked version to run

(in reply to t001001001)
Post #: 166
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 5:22:02 AM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

quote:

(which is incidentally more than I can say for Matrix's system)

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. There are no such restrictions on any Matrix games.


I was really hoping I was wrong on this, so I tested it: I copied my Decisive Campaigns Warsaw to Paris and War in the East folders from my desktop to a thumbdrive, plugged the thumbdrive into my laptop, and tried to run the executables directly. The games would refuse to run, citing a "problem with your serial number", ostensibly because the serial doesn't exist yet on the laptop's registry because I didn't install it.

Doing the same to my Steam copy of DEFCON worked.

http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

< Message edited by gradenko_2000 -- 12/10/2013 6:29:09 AM >

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 167
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 6:22:57 AM   
dublish

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

What you bought was merely a license to play a game, if you had actually bought the game you would have the right an ability to sell it. If you read the EULA of Steam you do not have that right or ownership of the game. Most people don't read the fine print and that is why they praise steam so. You have a library of licenses, but you do not have a library of owned games. Steam can take them away from you at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.


First, Steam's EULA (steam_install_agreement.rtf in your Steam folder if you need help finding it) applies only to the Steam program, and not to any software purchased or downloaded through Steam. Those have their own license agreements.

Second:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slitherine End User's Agreement

SINGLE USE SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
SINGLE USE SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE
PROCEEDING TO INSTALL THE SOFTWARE. BY PRESSING "AGREE," YOU AGREE TO
BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS
OF THIS LICENSE, PRESS "DISAGREE". THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT IS A LEGALLY
BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN YOU AND SLITHERINE LTD. AND/OR ITS
SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES OR SUB LICENSEES.
1. General. This software product in its entirety is copyrighted and is
protected by international law. The software and any accompanying
documentation or media including this License whether on disk, in
read only memory, or in any other form is licensed, not sold, to you by
Slitherine Ltd. and is for use only under the terms of this License.
Slitherine reserve all rights not expressly granted to you. The rights
granted herein are limited and do not include any patents or
intellectual property rights. Slitherine expressly retains ownership of
the Software itself.


I've bolded the relevant sentence there. All you're getting from Slitherine (or Paradox, CA, EA, and every other software publisher in the world) is merely a license.

Third, the right to sell used software licenses is still in a legal grey area. The European Court of Justice ruled last year that first acquirers, second acquirers, and any subsequent acquirers of a license retain the right to sell it (unfortunately I'm not allowed to link to the text of the decision, the case was UsedSoft GmbH v Oracle International Corp.). I'm not aware of any similar legal decisions in the US or UK, but it's certainly not definitively settled.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 168
RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games... - 12/10/2013 8:33:16 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		This is getting way off track guys and getting very personal so I am going to lock it up before someone says something they get regret.



_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 169
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