RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/20/2014 6:26:49 PM

crsutton

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Yes, I am at 4/42 in my second campaign and I am just crying for recon assets. I forgot how pitiful they are for the Allies until well into 1943. Not having good recon just blows. Still camera equipped planes certainly give the Allies the edge later on.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/20/2014 9:53:57 PM

obvert

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Here is a shot of the BBs steaming away toward the West Coast. They made seven hexes the first two days, then 3 more the day after this. At this rate it'll only be 15-17 days back. Not bad. As can be seen all of the subs seem to have left the area. Several big convoys are leaving the West Coast to try to take advantage of this window also.

Attachment (1)

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 12:14:42 AM

Lowpe

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Were you able to save the Langley? I can't remember. But if I manage to save her, she always ends up in the Pearl to West Coast run flying ASW or night search for me. Only 4 planes, but I think it is a good use for her, and I generally get her to Pearl to help escort the BBs back to the big shipyards.

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Post #: 423

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 1:07:55 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Interesting. I've always felt more escorts allow more chances for them to be in the way and harder for a sub to penetrate. With slow tankers I've always used equal escorts to tankers. Lost more PBs in sub strikes than TK by a good margin. I'm also a stickler to get good naval and aggression for escorts to find subs and prosecute attacks. I've got 6 with these two BBs. Two DD, two PC and two AM.

Oh, I agree. I just think that with an 8-knot BB vs. a 21-knot sub...the sub can chase you down anyway. If you run into one your BB is either going to die or it isn't. Even if the escorts soak up the first 5 attacks due to there being a lot of escorts, that sub has a reasonable chance of eventually snagging your BB anyway.

I prefer massed and "random" doglegs and all that for ASW anyway. Mitigates the need for escorts.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 5:59:26 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Were you able to save the Langley? I can't remember. But if I manage to save her, she always ends up in the Pearl to West Coast run flying ASW or night search for me. Only 4 planes, but I think it is a good use for her, and I generally get her to Pearl to help escort the BBs back to the big shipyards.

No Langley. She ran into IJN cruisers near Babeldaob.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 6:32:08 AM

JocMeister

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In my experience no number of allied escorts can stop Japanese subs. Even late war ones. Only way is to be where the subs arn�t! Got a couple of CVs hit in our game despite over 100 ASW rating in the TF and over 1000 ASW rating in the hex. Its somewhere in my AAR. I�m pretty upset at the time to say the least...

I think its somewhere around when I invaded Baker/Canton and again when I hit the Marianas.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 8:14:56 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience no number of allied escorts can stop Japanese subs. Even late war ones. Only way is to be where the subs arn�t! Got a couple of CVs hit in our game despite over 100 ASW rating in the TF and over 1000 ASW rating in the hex. Its somewhere in my AAR. I�m pretty upset at the time to say the least...

I think its somewhere around when I invaded Baker/Canton and again when I hit the Marianas.

Something changed in your air ASW around mid-44 though. not sure what it was? Did you set planes lower or use a higher percentage on dedicated ASW? It was harder to penetrate after a certain point, at least.

From my experience on the Japanese side all of that ASW only works to it's rating if subs are actually located. Now, the number of escorts should increase the chances of subs being located, but of course I was sending 20+ at you from all bearings into a 5 hex area!

The air search, night search and ASW air combined make it much tougher to get inside the 5-6 hexes where a sub can move in one phase and get into a TF. Also, some of your TFs (at least the amphibs, but no idea about the CV TFs of course) were over the 15 ship threshold for most effective protection against air and sub strikes.

Your subs did their job too!! I think they hit Akagi on three different occasions, in spite of all of my precautions! Of course I had nothing like your fleets to protect her, though.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 10:17:46 AM

JocMeister

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I did increase my dedicated Air ASW from 4 to 8 dedicated CVEs (!). But other then that I didn�t changed much. The only difference I noted is that you didn�t seem to "wolfpack" as much. Thought I was down to losing all those subs at Naha?

I also maneuvered much more violently. Might have helped!

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 10:19:42 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I did increase my dedicated Air ASW from 4 to 8 dedicated CVEs (!). But other then that I didn�t changed much. The only difference I noted is that you didn�t seem to "wolfpack" as much. Thought I was down to losing all those subs at Naha?

I also maneuvered much more violently. Might have helped!

After the 'Naha incident' there was nothing left to hit you, basically. So yes, that was the most effective ASW of the war!!

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 10:21:51 AM

JocMeister

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 3:02:36 PM

obvert

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March 1, 1942

SUBS: Still no subs around Pearl. Mine are mostly gathered around the Ceylon area of the IO and working the approaches to Japan. Now sending new subs into the areas around Truk and Rabaul. Have a few around Cent Pac. A few in SW OZ. Waiting to see where the KB goes next.

INDIA: Decided to send the 7th Aussie ID (I think it's that one, one of the ones that comes early to Aden in brigades, anyway) to Bombay in case he's aiming to go that far. I'll still have 1000AV at Karachi once the next Brit ID arrives in 22 days. The quality of the aussies, the forts and the terrain should make it a pretty tough place to hit. I'd guess he would need 3-4k AV to take on the 1600AV that will be there behind level 5-6 forts in +4 terrain, and it would be a long slog without regular bombardments from sea and air.

As new and purchased base forces arrive they're filling in the area around Karachi first, aiming to build the Western parts past the LOD and make sure there are bases for the many air groups arriving to be located and spread out. The rail is so good in India if he comes all of the way I want it to be a bit like whack-a-mole.

The Ceylon garrison is really wearing down the two divisions attacking there. From 900+ the IJA AV is down to 584. Our tanks are now mostly disabled and forts are only at 1, so the next attack might hurt more, but you never know, especially if forts can be built back up.

Pacific: The BBs get another 3 hexes, only 43 to go. The Oklahoma took another flood and one more system point.

CHINA: Looks like some movement toward the area south of Pingsiang. I see some shifting and now have to figure out with my limited 4 plane (max 5 hex) Lysander 'recon' group what's going on.

DEI: Batavia should fall in the next days, but Tillityap and a few smaller bases are still in Allied hands, as is Balikpapan. I was hoping to get some fuel to move to other bases, thus wasting it in movement, but no luck yet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 1, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Colombo (29,48)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1053 troops, 86 guns, 19 vehicles, Assault Value = 584

Defending force 29655 troops, 243 guns, 362 vehicles, Assault Value = 322

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
5th Division
18th Division
3rd Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
25th Army
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
Colombo Fortress
100th Indian Brigade
99th Indian Brigade
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
98th Indian Brigade
21st Light AA Regiment
1/1 Ceylon Base Force
222 RAF Base Force
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
222 Group RAF
1/3 Ceylon Base Force
Eastern Fleet
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
22nd Light AA Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a look at Bombay now. Getting there. Need a few more and better trained fighter units, but it's close enough to trade out from nearby bases and even Karachi as well.

Attachment (2)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/21/2014 8:24:39 PM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 3:14:19 PM

HansBolter

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IIRC the 6th is the first to arrive by brigades with the 7th following on by brigades as well while the I Australian Corps assets trickle in overlapping the arrival of both divisions.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 8:21:59 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience no number of allied escorts can stop Japanese subs. Even late war ones. Only way is to be where the subs arn�t! Got a couple of CVs hit in our game despite over 100 ASW rating in the TF and over 1000 ASW rating in the hex. Its somewhere in my AAR. I�m pretty upset at the time to say the least...

I think its somewhere around when I invaded Baker/Canton and again when I hit the Marianas.

Hi Joe,

My experience in my last full campaign was entirely different from yours. Ark and I both hit a lot of capital ships in 42 and 43 but as fate would have it neither of us were unlucky enough to lose one. I probably took at least half a dozen hits on my carriers and maybe 10 BBs got plugged. It was annoying but my subs did the same to him. The difference is that by the end of 1943 my escorts had sunk all of his sub fleet and they were no longer a threat. Convoy escorts did pretty well for me in the mix along with dedicated ASW TFs and good air searching.

Then one day in late 44, after a major battle with both sides suffering only moderate damage, my massed Allied subs went into full rage mode and massacred his retreating carriers and surface ships. It was so bloody that I posted it in the forum for all to see.

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Post #: 433

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/21/2014 8:24:12 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I did increase my dedicated Air ASW from 4 to 8 dedicated CVEs (!). But other then that I didn�t changed much. The only difference I noted is that you didn�t seem to "wolfpack" as much. Thought I was down to losing all those subs at Naha?

I also maneuvered much more violently. Might have helped!

Well Allied DDs come on boards in floods after 1944 and all of them come with very high crew skills. Even DEs come with decent crew skills after 44. I expect that is a factor as well.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/22/2014 5:34:59 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hi Joe,

My experience in my last full campaign was entirely different from yours. Ark and I both hit a lot of capital ships in 42 and 43 but as fate would have it neither of us were unlucky enough to lose one. I probably took at least half a dozen hits on my carriers and maybe 10 BBs got plugged. It was annoying but my subs did the same to him. The difference is that by the end of 1943 my escorts had sunk all of his sub fleet and they were no longer a threat. Convoy escorts did pretty well for me in the mix along with dedicated ASW TFs and good air searching.

Then one day in late 44, after a major battle with both sides suffering only moderate damage, my massed Allied subs went into full rage mode and massacred his retreating carriers and surface ships. It was so bloody that I posted it in the forum for all to see.

I had very little luck with my subs. Erik played it very smart and operating allied subs under Japanese LBA meant it was either sunk or forced to RTB within 1-3 turns. Considering most of 44-45 took place under Japanese LBA I don�t think my subs achieved much besides damaging a few ships like the Akagi and sinking 2 already stricken CAs.

Japanese subs was a constant danger though almost sinking two Essexes and sending a couple more to the yards in 44 alone. Threat only subsided when the sub fleet was sunk at anchor at Naha.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/23/2014 10:06:28 PM

obvert

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March 2 - 4, 1942

INDIA: More engineers arrive in Karachi and Bombay and the last of the Aussie brigades to complete the 7th arrives in Aden and begins to move to Karachi, then Bombay.

Pacific: The Northern isands continue to solidify. Lots of engineers and supply move this way while Adak gets a Marine Defense Battalion. Also sending a bunch to the South Pacific via Tahiti and will build up Penrhyn and Tahiti. Now a lot of stuff will go to OZ since India has begun to build defenses.

More CVs will arive i nthe next two weeks to begin offensive ops if the KB does show itself.

DEI: The Japanese get Batavia and will roll over the rest of Java soon. I'm sure West and possibly SW OZ will be next on the menu, although no sign of the KB lately.

Burma: The IJA matched with a Thai division try for Myitkyina and don't quite get a positive result. The 1:2 leaves them with more disablements while our relatively poor Brits and Chinese do okay.

SIGINT: Still more SIGINT for OZ, but are they true or false?

19th/A Division is planning for an attack on Newcastle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 2, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Myitkyina (64,42)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9588 troops, 90 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 311

Defending force 6340 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 229

Japanese adjusted assault: 156

Allied adjusted defense: 190

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: morale(-)

Japanese ground losses:
473 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 92 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Allied ground losses:
184 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd RTA Division
17th Indpt Guards Regiment

Defending units:
36th Chinese Division
4th Burma Rifles Battalion
BFF Brigade
88th Chinese Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting. Love this kind of detail without even sending recon!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/23/2014 11:07:11 PM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/24/2014 8:16:55 PM

obvert

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OT - Well, the game has been going slow the last few days as we played the end of year baseball tournament here, just finished today. Good but frustrating. Got the silver medal, not the gold. After a great season, seeing the boys fight their way into the final with tough defense and timely hitting, we couldn't get the last one. Lost 3-2 with a man on first and our stud senior at the plate flying out to deep center. Hard to let this one go.

AE will be a good way to get my mind on something else for the next few days.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/25/2014 3:30:03 PM

obvert

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March 5 - 6, 1942

SUBS: A few IJN subs appeared to the West of the Hawaiian Islands on the 5th and on the 6th moved in close and past to the East. Our BBs are now 28 hexes from Alameda moving at 3 hexes a day. The closest sub is 24 hexes distant. It could catch up in about 4 days if it's heading that far and on a similar bearing. Within 5-6 days the BBs will be under at least Catalina air cover. I'll send out another ASW TF from San Fran to meet them.

INDIA: The IJA takes Bangalore, and another division moves into Colombo which should fall next turn if he attacks. Another small base near Hyderabad is taken by para-assault. Good thing the Japanese control parts of China. They've been going through a lot of silk lately.

Pacific: The KB is hidden, which makes the likelihood of Operation Boomerang happening dwindle considerably. Troops are nearing prep status for invasion and the CVs are approaching Cristobal from Cape Town. The Hornet just arrived at Balbao and will await the other TF before moving on to San Diego or PH.

In the meantime defensive preparations continue at Pago Pago with the NZ brigade from Suva heading over and forts topping 4. A combat engineer units is heading to Christmas Island and the troops arriving at Bora Bora are heading to Penrhyn. In the North a Marine Defense unit arrives at Adak and a Pioneer battalion will provide token resistance at Attu. Adak has about 200AV and forts 3.

What is the next move? The IJA has a good sized army in India still. What can they go for in the Pacific? Definitely Noumea, Fiji, NE OZ. Definitely NW OZ and down to Exmouth. Carnarvon, Geraldton and Perth are building defenses, and now some units are moving to Albany and Exmouth as well. He could go to the extended Cent Pac like the line islands and Canton, maybe to Penrhyn, but is that worth it? He has a few more weeks to make it happen, but I'd wager there will be another blow to absorb before the end of the invasion bonus.

Just for security and peace of mind I moved several divisions and armored units to the area of Los Angles and along down toward San Diego.

CHINA: Still no major shifts here. Chungking is building supply and filling out troops there. I just had two new Corps arrive from some small ones that were destroyed. Both are 260AV, a full third of their TOE, and one even arrived with (or just added) 105mm arty. Another that starts at Chungking is getting toward 600AV. Should make a nice reserve up here in case I need to quickly race to plug some holes in the line. Also a good sized reserve at Changsha of 1500AV and filling out.

SIGINT: These kinds of SIGINT at least tell me that he's planning to stay in India for a while, and there have been several with different kinds of supporting engineers units.

26th JAAF AF Bn is loaded on xAK Seisyo Maru moving to Calcutta.

Ships Sunk:

DD Asakaze is reported to have been sunk near Jolo on Jan 30, 1942

Interesting. I had no idea the Japanese get +10 PP a turn. Is this unique to this scenario, or is it the same in stock Scen 2?

That should enable GJ to buy out almost two more divisions than the Allies can per year.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/25/2014 4:30:20 PM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/25/2014 3:50:52 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Stock 002 has the Japanese at 60/day and 500 start. Stock 001 has 50/day and also 500 to start. Allies get 100 to start and 50/day in both cases.

Re Chungking, have you built forts to 7? I think that's an excellent investment. In my experience in two sieges now that extra level buys you at least one more attack at 30,000-40,000 Japanese casualties, mostly disablements. Also buys you a month or more between attack #1 and #2.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/25/2014 4:56:01 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Stock 002 has the Japanese at 60/day and 500 start. Stock 001 has 50/day and also 500 to start. Allies get 100 to start and 50/day in both cases.

Re Chungking, have you built forts to 7? I think that's an excellent investment. In my experience in two sieges now that extra level buys you at least one more attack at 30,000-40,000 Japanese casualties, mostly disablements. Also buys you a month or more between attack #1 and #2.

Shush, you!

No, really. Get the 25k supplies there if you can. This is probably easier with fewer units at other bases so less supply is flowing out from the hub...

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/25/2014 7:57:46 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Stock 002 has the Japanese at 60/day and 500 start. Stock 001 has 50/day and also 500 to start. Allies get 100 to start and 50/day in both cases.

Re Chungking, have you built forts to 7? I think that's an excellent investment. In my experience in two sieges now that extra level buys you at least one more attack at 30,000-40,000 Japanese casualties, mostly disablements. Also buys you a month or more between attack #1 and #2.

Shush, you!

No, really. Get the 25k supplies there if you can. This is probably easier with fewer units at other bases so less supply is flowing out from the hub...

GJ is giving him a gift in China. I'd even go for Forts 8 if there's time. They're a huge multiplier with the typical Chungking stack, embellished by the reincarnation rule.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/26/2014 12:30:12 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Stock 002 has the Japanese at 60/day and 500 start. Stock 001 has 50/day and also 500 to start. Allies get 100 to start and 50/day in both cases.

Re Chungking, have you built forts to 7? I think that's an excellent investment. In my experience in two sieges now that extra level buys you at least one more attack at 30,000-40,000 Japanese casualties, mostly disablements. Also buys you a month or more between attack #1 and #2.

Hmmm. I don't know. For what it costs I can probably fill out several big Corps and not let him get to Chungking because I was able to still fight in the good terrain on the way. But maybe not, and the air forces haven't done squat for Japan in China yet.

I don't think I'll be able to get 25k there though without compromising other areas of China. If it gets to 25k then I'll think about it.

Somewhere I had a diagram or list with the supply cost of forts and I remember that up to forts 3 it's not much at all, then a bit more at level 4, then a lot more at level 5 and again at level 6. I have in my mind that level 7 is like 20k supply. Is that right? (I do have a folder with all of this stuff but as you can see I need to do some organizing!)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/26/2014 1:30:42 AM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/26/2014 1:39:03 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Somewhere I had a diagram or list with the supply cost of forts and I remember that up to forts 3 it's not much at all, then a bit more at level 4, then a lot more at level 5 and again at level 6. I have in my mind that level 7 is like 20k supply. Is that right? (I do have a folder with all of this stuff but as you can see I need to do some organizing!)

The problem with filling out corps is AT. You don't get any. If he's smart he'll bring tanks and there's little you can do. Terrain isn't the answer for tanks supported by 2E every day. But he's fragmented his offense so much he may never get to China in the way most Allied players face. Lokasenna is an excellent Japan player and doubly so on land. I'm barely average on land. That said, he flayed me in China in the first two months. Over and over he used his tanks to gain hexside control and I fell back. I fell back to Chungking.

But I started building forts there on December 8 and got to Level 7 in about a month. With the reincarnation rule I have about 11,500 AV there. He strat bombed the base out of the supply business; all it gets is the 400 organic and whatever gets in by air. He attacked once and took (memory here) 28,000 casualties, did not drop forts from 7. He's been bombing and bombarding daily since. It's late August 1942 and here we are. I can't move; he has about 70 LCUs invested.

In my other game Mike has taken more traditional battering approaches. I also got to Level 7, but over half of the Chinese army got out to Burma and India. He's taken forts down to Level 3 in, I think, six major attacks. He's taken something north of 200,000 casualties, and has about 65 LCUs tied up.

The forts REALLY help. I know you think you'll hold someplace like Sian, and you will, just so long as he's busy somewhere else.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/26/2014 1:56:54 PM

obvert

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My strategy there so far is about conservation while I can. If he's not going to bomb, then I'll save supply and fill out units. I'm only filling out though, and replacements are turned off for nearly everything outside of Chungking. So units will hopefully fill to their current plus their disabled, and then if I can conserve some supply i may try a build on Chungking forts. At Sian the AV is going up 8-10 a day as units repair disabled, and the base has 2k AV even after I've been moving some out, which is about the same that caused the big losses there when he shocked across before. Doubt he'll do that again without a lot of air support though.

This mod does have AT guns! I have two independent AT gun units with 36 37mm guns each, all filled out and rested, now moving up toward Kienko and on to the mountains beyond Sian. Each Corps also has 6-8 37mm AT guns integrated. Really has helped. I've noticed the tanks don't overwhelm as they did in my stock games, and if behind forts they take a lot of disablements. Of course I haven't seen the tank divisions yet, and they are among the IJA's best. Once I see where they will be used the independent AT gun units will move that way.

My feeling is that the key right now is the Nanning/Liuchow/Kweillin area and I'm sending a few reserves that way now. Once Java is done he could bring a free army in around here if he doesn't have other plans. I've got around 2k AV dug in there now, but could use another 1k just to back it up. Because Liuchow is such bad territory the hexes in front of it have to be strongly guarded and that is what I'l focus on now as the final piece of the MLR. He could bring enough to overwhelm anything I have though if he really wants China.

Or maybe there are other plans?

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/26/2014 3:06:03 PM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 1:35:31 AM

crsutton

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The real benefit to China is the supply he will have to use. Major operations with the Japanese fleet and grinding and bombing in China eat supply and fuel. I think many Japanese players do not take this into account and pay for it later in the war. The reap great early war success but there is only so much to work with even with the best managed economy. It played out in my last full campaign. Slogging those BBs all over the map in 1942 comes at a big price in 1945. Likewise, I think most Japanese players waste too many bombing sorties-especially against troops in good terrain. That eats supply every turn for generally low results. The faucet does not flow forever.

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 5:39:26 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

The real benefit to China is the supply he will have to use. Major operations with the Japanese fleet and grinding and bombing in China eat supply and fuel. I think many Japanese players do not take this into account and pay for it later in the war. The reap great early war success but there is only so much to work with even with the best managed economy. It played out in my last full campaign. Slogging those BBs all over the map in 1942 comes at a big price in 1945. Likewise, I think most Japanese players waste too many bombing sorties-especially against troops in good terrain. That eats supply every turn for generally low results. The faucet does not flow forever.

I found this out all too well.

I keep it in mind, but in still early 42 it does seem like the IJN can be anywhere and there are more IJA divisions than I can count!

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 9:37:05 AM

obvert

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March 7 - 8, 1942

SUBS: The I-123 gets in the way of a 3 BB and 5 DD TF as it comes onto the map near Dante. It is sighted by the escorts before getting a shot off luckily.

INDIA: Colombo hangs on, but not for much longer. The good news is that the 2nd Royal Tank regiment is really putting the hurt on the IJA. At least one division, the 5th I think, is nearing bottom with only 100 AV during the attack. The others are getting worn as well. So while this will again cost a lot of troops lost, it seems to be slowing any other plans in India and will certainly take a while for the units involved to recover. I will buy back the tanks and even the brigades, as I've just found that they will recover their support and engineers much faster than their combat squads, and engineers and support are in need right now in India.

I've decided to abandon Myitkyina and leave Ledo to it's fate. It has 350AV and 3.2 forts and building. There is currently 11k supply in the base. The Chinese defending Myitkyina will move to clog the road to Paoshan along with the Burma division holding Lashio.

Pacific: No indication of anything happening here yet. The QE is delivering troops to Christmas Island. The BBs are still chugging across to Alameda. CVs are now moving to SD. Some large convoys are now also moving to NZ via Tahiti with base forces, engineers and its of supply and fuel. Next will be some troops.

CHINA: The MLR South of Pingsiang is being challenged by another unit, but the hex is stacked and no movement will happen there in the near future. We've also gotten troops through to close the hex sides of the hex just below this area where the IJA and Chinese arrived simultaneously. Until the air strikes come or another army lands China is about as solid as I can make it.

SIGINT: Good SIGINT today. I see nothing from search or subs but based on this and another report recently from the same area I think an invasion of Diego Garcia is moving in. Or maybe a raid to hit anything moving on the map edge. Nothing is out there though.

Radio call sign of CVL Zuiho detected at 18,63.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 7, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Colombo (29,48)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42409 troops, 433 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 1180

Defending force 31368 troops, 243 guns, 357 vehicles, Assault Value = 329

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1208

Allied adjusted defense: 406

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2973 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 279 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 47 disabled
Guns lost 22 (1 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1286 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 35 (6 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (2 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Assaulting units:
5th Division
18th Division
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
27th Ind Engineer Regiment
6th Guards Division
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Mortar Battalion
25th Army
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
99th Indian Brigade
Colombo Fortress
100th Indian Brigade
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
98th Indian Brigade
222 Group RAF
222 RAF Base Force
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
1/3 Ceylon Base Force
Eastern Fleet
Ceylon Command
1/1 Ceylon Base Force
21st Light AA Regiment
1/2 Ceylon Base Force
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
22nd Light AA Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a shot of one of the two big AT gun units in China. Not bad.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/27/2014 10:39:16 AM >

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 1:16:27 PM

JocMeister

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What troops are at Ledo? You can ill afford to lose more British squads at this stage. Indian squads are not much better. While they arrive in better numbers you will need a lot to fill out all the half strength IDs that arrive!

PS. I think GJ is making a huge mistake by doing India before China. Just keep doing what you have been. Let the Chinese recover and try to save up some supply and build forts.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 448

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 4:05:25 PM

crsutton

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Well Joe, the British troops are some of your best and you just have to use them and the Australians at this stage of the fight because the Indian units are just so weak and the experience level is poor. Save for a total Sir Robin in India I see no way to avoid it. But in the end I do not think it matters much. You are talking two British divisions and yes they are valuable, but the Indian army gets so powerful in the end-especially the tank units that the British divisions won't matter so much later in the war. Quite frankly, it is the devices more so than the squads that become an issue. Commonwealth units don't ever get enough replacement devices. The real questions is what price can you exact from the Japanese by using up your Brits. Time and resources are the Allies best bargain at this stage. GJ got nothing out of Calcutta but wreckage. No oil or industry. Yes, I would trade a division for that.

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Post #: 449

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 5/27/2014 9:27:17 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

What troops are at Ledo? You can ill afford to lose more British squads at this stage. Indian squads are not much better. While they arrive in better numbers you will need a lot to fill out all the half strength IDs that arrive!

PS. I think GJ is making a huge mistake by doing India before China. Just keep doing what you have been. Let the Chinese recover and try to save up some supply and build forts.

Ledo has one free Chinese 'division' and a bunch of small rabble. Not even a brigade from the brits, and mostly burmese units or small battalions.

So the point is he has to shock into it. If he does I want the oil/refineries to be wiped, like at Calcutta. I also have all of the base forces from Burma and some from the mountains that got cut off. A LOT of engineers. Even a full division shocking into +2 with 3 forts and 350AV is going to get hurt. Maybe pretty badly. And there is no real way for him to know what I have unless he sacrifices some smaller units to find out.

In China I'm starting to look at recovery of some units on a daily basis. It's going well. I have a few Corps approaching 500 AV and others in the 400 AV territory. I'm trying to use the same ones near Pingsiang so as to let others recover, just shuttling them in and out. He's just bombarding now though. Makes me think some larger plan has to be going on if he's not using the air forces here.

Here are my guesses with odds. This is all before the invasion bonus, so within the month.

3:1 - SW OZ aiming to take Perth - The would give the Japanese another potential small industrial center and a great foothold in OZ that will set back Allied advances a good while. I've defended heavily here and it will be tough for the Japanese to take this area while still occupying some portion of India and before the PI fall. The longer he waits though the more will meet him.

4:1 - More India - Bombay is the other major industrial center the Japanese could try for. It would be tough, and with 1700 AV there currently, including a 70 exp Aussie division, the 7th, and forts at 4.4 and growing, it would be really tough to take this base.

4:1 - So Pac - Snapping up Nuomea and Fiji, with an aim at Pago and possibly other targets would ensure a good haul of VPs, and would be quick and easy up to Pago. NZ could be on the table, but I think this is too far a reach. Pago has 280 AV anda bunch of arty plus a Marine Defense unit, and it wouldn't be a pushover at forts 4.3 and climbing.

6:1 - No Pac - He could be aiming here with an idea to let me fill in the area lightly, and then come to wreck the progress with a massive invasion led by the KB and most of the IJN. This would be good up to Adak where 250AV sit behind 3.2 and growing, and Dutch with 550AV and a LOT of CD and arty. More is heading up here too.

7:1 - EAST OZ - If he goes all in for Oz he could do del until the southern area, but I'll turtle up like a hedgehog into Sydney and wait for the Spit VIII to bail me out.

8:1 - China - this means an ALL-IN China, using free divisions and a bunch of the air forces. It doesn't seem a priority now so why would it change in the near future? The defeat at Sian showed GJ that China with supply and SL could be a bear, and in this mod with AT guns in every unit, it remains to be seen if even the big tank divisions can push their way around as in stock.

20:1 - Russia - It's the kind of move GJ would love. Unexpected, almost to the point of being insane, and at the same time dramatic and fun. It can be done, as shown by rader, but without Tojos and with half the free divisions in India, I doubt it's really possible.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/27/2014 10:38:45 PM >

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