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RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 6:07:31 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

Getting 2 player NetPlay to work will be a different thing than getting multi-player NetPlay going. I do feel that latter way to play the game is extremely important.

A lot of people want an AI. Hopefully in that area, first a very good tactical AI can be written just for the Barbarossa scenario, and released right away, rather than wait for one that can take on a full Global War scenario. That alone would lead to a lot of people picking up the game, learning the engine, and wanting to play NetPlay against a human opponent, I think. Even for a Barbarossa only AI it would be best to leave out the naval system and fix in place a few optional rules just to get one AI system off the ground.

But all that is a theoretical discussion for � 2015? 2016?

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 61

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 7:17:06 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

As I understand it, Steve is not an employee of Matrix and is being paid based solely on sales of the game. With that in mind, I can't imagine that the game will still be selling enough copies to justify him doing any work on the game as far out as 2016. In fact, I'm shocked that he hasn't thrown in the towel already. And Matrix has already said they have no other coders that are familiar with the language MWIF is written in, and they have no plans to hire any. That's a large part of why I'm so bitter about the current state of the game and the slow progress at fixing it - I'm afraid it will be abandoned before it's anywhere near ready for release. It seems unlikely that we will never see an AI without a pretty steep price tag attached to it, and I for one will not spend another penny with Matrix after my experiences with this game. If they want to provide a free upgrade to those of us who paid them to work in their QA department, great. Otherwise, I'll pass.

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 62

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 7:42:37 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I guess end of story. SAD!

Bo

Bo,

Of course the forums are for posting anything you want. My advice to speak to Steve (He (and Matrix) will decide what is feasible at this point in the project) was only an attempt to prevent you from getting your hopes up and then shot down.

I do not believe this is anywhere near the end of the MWIF story, as long as Steve breathes there are possibilities.

Be well,

Appreciate your comment on getting my hopes up or down I mean that I understood you from day one on that, I knew you were keeping an eye on me, thank you. Right now I am beyond frustration I am getting angry at the decisions that were made against sound advise from some of the beta testers, believe it or not Flipper I am holding back my real feelings at what happened here.

Care less at my age about my NDS its just what I have to say would be like water rolling off a ducks back with the hierarchy here. They dont get it!

Bo

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 63

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 7:54:09 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Getting 2 player NetPlay to work will be a different thing than getting multi-player NetPlay going. I do feel that latter way to play the game is extremely important.

A lot of people want an AI. Hopefully in that area, first a very good tactical AI can be written just for the Barbarossa scenario, and released right away, rather than wait for one that can take on a full Global War scenario. That alone would lead to a lot of people picking up the game, learning the engine, and wanting to play NetPlay against a human opponent, I think. Even for a Barbarossa only AI it would be best to leave out the naval system and fix in place a few optional rules just to get one AI system off the ground.

But all that is a theoretical discussion for � 2015? 2016?

Hi brian good to hear from you.

It needs to be done as soon as supply and production are finished even though Barbarossa IMHO could be done now, there is no naval to worry about, supply is not an issue in Barbarossa and production is not an issue, it would take tremendous pressure off of Matrix and Steve, then they can have their 1 year 2 years whatever to finish the rest of the game at their leisure.

One of the problems here is people taking sides one group for net play and one group for the AI nothing wrong with either side it is just a persons preference. And being split nothing is going in either direction correctly.

Bo

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 64

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 8:10:59 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

As I understand it, Steve is not an employee of Matrix and is being paid based solely on sales of the game. With that in mind, I can't imagine that the game will still be selling enough copies to justify him doing any work on the game as far out as 2016. In fact, I'm shocked that he hasn't thrown in the towel already. And Matrix has already said they have no other coders that are familiar with the language MWIF is written in, and they have no plans to hire any. That's a large part of why I'm so bitter about the current state of the game and the slow progress at fixing it - I'm afraid it will be abandoned before it's anywhere near ready for release. It seems unlikely that we will never see an AI without a pretty steep price tag attached to it, and I for one will not spend another penny with Matrix after my experiences with this game. If they want to provide a free upgrade to those of us who paid them to work in their QA department, great. Otherwise, I'll pass.

As much as I would like to agree with everything you said here I do believe Steve will stick it out even beyond 2016, I do not believe money is the issue with him I think it is pride in accomplishing the almost impossible, putting WIF on a computer, if, a big if, he can bring this game to fruit bearing with everything intact decent AI a good working netplay a possible PBEM, he could well go down in computer wargaming history as a magican., and a bonafide hero.

With that said,

I liked your comment about you are not a donor you are a customer, and the customer comes first, hmmm, well not exactly

I know one thing if I had to pay 100 plus dollars for this game I would have made crussdaddy sound like an angel. With all my bitter feelings right now I would still like to beta test the AI giving up my free time to help out, not for Matrix anymore but for the general wargamer.

I still believe maybe foolishly that this is the finest most brillant war game ever made and maybe, will ever be made, Steve will finish it.

Bo

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 65

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 10:53:29 PM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I still believe maybe foolishly that this is the finest most brillant war game ever made and maybe, will ever be made, Steve will finish it.

Bo

Not foolishly Bo. This is the finest wargame ever created bar none.

Which is why so many of us care so much.

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 66

RE: Chiming in - 5/30/2014 11:31:12 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I still believe maybe foolishly that this is the finest most brillant war game ever made and maybe, will ever be made, Steve will finish it.

Bo

Not foolishly Bo. This is the finest wargame ever created bar none.

Which is why so many of us care so much.

I agree alex, if I had said it was the finest wargame ever made there would be those that would start throwing other games my way like Carriers at War, War in the east, Civil war 2 etc

not my usual forte playing it safe but what the hell.

Bo

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 67

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 12:32:51 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline

Bo,

All you have to do is stay alive and stay on the beta test team to
Get your shot at testing the AI when it is programmed.

Be well,

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 68

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 1:43:32 AM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

All you have to do is stay alive and stay on the beta test team to
Get your shot at testing the AI when it is programmed.

Be well,

Thanks Flipper but with my mouth running lately about the screw ups and the AI, I doubt I will be retained, who knows.

Bo

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 69

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 2:11:15 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

All you have to do is stay alive and stay on the beta test team to
Get your shot at testing the AI when it is programmed.

Be well,

Thanks Flipper but with my mouth running lately about the screw ups and the AI, I doubt I will be retained, who knows.

Bo

warspite1

bo, sounds like you could do with a break from the game for the sake of your own peace of mind....

That's what I've done. Although staying away from the greatest war game ever, is proving....difficult, it was definitely the right choice for me.

All the best whatever you decide.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 70

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 2:13:14 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

You have to stop looking at the past. Mistakes were made, obviously. However, the important thing is Steve is still actively working on the game and has no signs of stopping. There are plenty of other games that only have one person working on them and you do not see this kind of response to just having one person doing the coding.

Of course the advantage they have, and it is a HUGE one, is that they can develop the game however they want. They do not have to follow an existing rule set designed for physical play. Plus I am sure their code is not something someone else can pick up and take over from either.

Will NetPlay work at some point Yes. Will their be an AI, Yes. Will it be this year? Who knows. But again the important thing is that the game IS being improved, progress will continue to be made, and life will go on.

It took 8 years to get here and people should be thrilled we actually got to this point. I know I am. I still say without a release, the game STILL would have been released with major issues simply because the number of options and different ways to play are impossible for such a small team to discover. So we are definitely much better off than if we had even waited another year or even two for a release. Just imagine the issues if the game HAD released with an AI with all the issues we currently have. From a programing point of view, it is MUCH better to fix all these issues without an AI than with one. Because if something messes up with the AI, you know it is the AI code itself and not the underlying game engine.

I'm sorry you feel so bad about the game Bo, but just take a deep breath and chill. Just know that I do not share your viewpoint and I too paid full price for the game (and have zero regrets about doing so. Plus I had been unemployed for over 6 months so it was not like I had money to spare either.)

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 71

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 2:32:26 AM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

All you have to do is stay alive and stay on the beta test team to
Get your shot at testing the AI when it is programmed.

Be well,

Thanks Flipper but with my mouth running lately about the screw ups and the AI, I doubt I will be retained, who knows.

Bo

warspite1

bo, sounds like you could do with a break from the game for the sake of your own peace of mind....

That's what I've done. Although staying away from the greatest war game ever, is proving....difficult, it was definitely the right choice for me.

All the best whatever you decide.

Thank you warspite, I have been playing WOT with my grandson, trying to learn from a 13 year old

I feel the supply and the troubled production problems are over my head, so I am staying away, might get into netplay but Cad and I put a lot of time into over a year ago to no avail, and as of right now I think it is totally unplayable. I believe with my heart and soul that a Barbrossa AI even a simple one would take the pressure off of Steve and Matrix possibly for a year but who know how posters will respond.

Something has to be done, we cannot go on another year with just solo, okay attempt the net play and use some common sense if it is trouble, can it for awhile and give most of the people what they want, the AI for Barbarossa, then as far as I am concerned Steve can take ten years to do net play, I could care less.

Actually I do not like Barbarossa scenario I would prefer Fascist Tide but I believe that Barbarossa would be the easiest scenario to deal with the AI. Of course after supply is solved by Steve.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/31/2014 5:54:09 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 72

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 2:49:31 AM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

You have to stop looking at the past. Mistakes were made, obviously. However, the important thing is Steve is still actively working on the game and has no signs of stopping. There are plenty of other games that only have one person working on them and you do not see this kind of response to just having one person doing the coding.

Of course the advantage they have, and it is a HUGE one, is that they can develop the game however they want. They do not have to follow an existing rule set designed for physical play. Plus I am sure their code is not something someone else can pick up and take over from either.

Will NetPlay work at some point Yes. Will their be an AI, Yes. Will it be this year? Who knows. But again the important thing is that the game IS being improved, progress will continue to be made, and life will go on.

It took 8 years to get here and people should be thrilled we actually got to this point. I know I am. I still say without a release, the game STILL would have been released with major issues simply because the number of options and different ways to play are impossible for such a small team to discover. So we are definitely much better off than if we had even waited another year or even two for a release. Just imagine the issues if the game HAD released with an AI with all the issues we currently have. From a programing point of view, it is MUCH better to fix all these issues without an AI than with one. Because if something messes up with the AI, you know it is the AI code itself and not the underlying game engine.

I'm sorry you feel so bad about the game Bo, but just take a deep breath and chill. Just know that I do not share your viewpoint and I too paid full price for the game (and have zero regrets about doing so. Plus I had been unemployed for over 6 months so it was not like I had money to spare either.)

Appreciate your response Numy, I respect your feelings but I have a strange feeling a lot of people who paid for this game might disagree with you, I hope not.

I do not feel bad about the game, it is what it is, what I feel bad about is the date Nov 7th 2013. Also I thought we learn things from the past, guess not huh!

PS. I have since your post did some rethinking about the $100 spent, I do not know about other countries but in the good old USA $100 does not buy much. You take your wife to dinner once in a awhile and you easily spend $100 not counting the baby sitter

If I went to see the Phillies play or the Eagles play and took another person, counting food ,drinking Budweiser etc. your way over a $100 and what do you have for your money, sadness if your team lost, can't find your car in the gigantic parking lots, hung over from the deep aroma of Budweiser, fighting the traffic trying to get home.

Valentines day $100 for roses for your girl friend, hmm on the other hand that might be worth it

So maybe just maybe I have to concede that MWIF is a bargin for a $100 because you will have it for life, I know my life is in danger over that statement

but at my age the only thing I have to fear is fear itself [heard that phrase somewheres]

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 5/31/2014 4:08:29 PM >

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 73

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 7:05:01 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline

Bo,

I've read your last few posts and even though I hope the project stays on course and doesn't go
the way you want it. I am just going to wish you well and good luck.

Be well,

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 74

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 12:34:35 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

You have to stop looking at the past. Mistakes were made, obviously. However, the important thing is Steve is still actively working on the game and has no signs of stopping. There are plenty of other games that only have one person working on them and you do not see this kind of response to just having one person doing the coding.

Of course the advantage they have, and it is a HUGE one, is that they can develop the game however they want. They do not have to follow an existing rule set designed for physical play. Plus I am sure their code is not something someone else can pick up and take over from either.

Will NetPlay work at some point Yes. Will their be an AI, Yes. Will it be this year? Who knows. But again the important thing is that the game IS being improved, progress will continue to be made, and life will go on.

It took 8 years to get here and people should be thrilled we actually got to this point. I know I am. I still say without a release, the game STILL would have been released with major issues simply because the number of options and different ways to play are impossible for such a small team to discover. So we are definitely much better off than if we had even waited another year or even two for a release. Just imagine the issues if the game HAD released with an AI with all the issues we currently have. From a programing point of view, it is MUCH better to fix all these issues without an AI than with one. Because if something messes up with the AI, you know it is the AI code itself and not the underlying game engine.

I'm sorry you feel so bad about the game Bo, but just take a deep breath and chill. Just know that I do not share your viewpoint and I too paid full price for the game (and have zero regrets about doing so. Plus I had been unemployed for over 6 months so it was not like I had money to spare either.)

+1

Sure, things are not good at all. I just hope that in a couple of years we are all laughing when we see these posts...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 75

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 2:54:11 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

You have to stop looking at the past. Mistakes were made, obviously. However, the important thing is Steve is still actively working on the game and has no signs of stopping. There are plenty of other games that only have one person working on them and you do not see this kind of response to just having one person doing the coding.

Of course the advantage they have, and it is a HUGE one, is that they can develop the game however they want. They do not have to follow an existing rule set designed for physical play. Plus I am sure their code is not something someone else can pick up and take over from either.

Will NetPlay work at some point Yes. Will their be an AI, Yes. Will it be this year? Who knows. But again the important thing is that the game IS being improved, progress will continue to be made, and life will go on.

It took 8 years to get here and people should be thrilled we actually got to this point. I know I am. I still say without a release, the game STILL would have been released with major issues simply because the number of options and different ways to play are impossible for such a small team to discover. So we are definitely much better off than if we had even waited another year or even two for a release. Just imagine the issues if the game HAD released with an AI with all the issues we currently have. From a programing point of view, it is MUCH better to fix all these issues without an AI than with one. Because if something messes up with the AI, you know it is the AI code itself and not the underlying game engine.

I'm sorry you feel so bad about the game Bo, but just take a deep breath and chill. Just know that I do not share your viewpoint and I too paid full price for the game (and have zero regrets about doing so. Plus I had been unemployed for over 6 months so it was not like I had money to spare either.)

+1

Sure, things are not good at all. I just hope that in a couple of years we are all laughing when we see these posts...

+ 2

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 76

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 3:52:44 PM

JDM

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

Stevens Agreement has just been extended for the next 10 years

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 77

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 3:53:41 PM

JDM

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

Stevens Agreement has just been extended for the next 10 years

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 78

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 4:51:49 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM

Stevens Agreement has just been extended for the next 10 years

Thats wonderful JDM could you verify that please

whoever you are?

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2014 12:12:07 AM >

(in reply to JDM)

Post #: 79

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 7:15:14 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM

Stevens Agreement has just been extended for the next 10 years

That is a piece of very good news from the CEO of Slitherine, which owns Matrix.

Steve - congratulations for the trust and shown support from the management.
JDM - thanks for the continuity, and letting us know personnally.

Good news indeed.

(in reply to JDM)

Post #: 80

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 10:26:22 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

Are you saying the CEO has a plain forum account with less than 100 posts, doesn't know how to delete a post when he double posts, doesn't know the difference between possessives and plurals, doesn't know which words to capitalize and which to leave lowercase, and doesn't use punctuation at the end of sentences? If that's the public face of the company, it explains a hell of a lot about how we got into this mess to begin with.

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 81

RE: Chiming in - 5/31/2014 11:10:05 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Are you saying the CEO has a plain forum account with less than 100 posts, doesn't know how to delete a post when he double posts, doesn't know the difference between possessives and plurals, doesn't know which words to capitalize and which to leave lowercase, and doesn't use punctuation at the end of sentences? If that's the public face of the company, it explains a hell of a lot about how we got into this mess to begin with.

You break me up Zar.

Bo

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 82

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 1:29:52 AM

Astyreal

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Are you saying the CEO has a plain forum account with less than 100 posts, doesn't know how to delete a post when he double posts, doesn't know the difference between possessives and plurals, doesn't know which words to capitalize and which to leave lowercase, and doesn't use punctuation at the end of sentences? If that's the public face of the company, it explains a hell of a lot about how we got into this mess to begin with.

Come on.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 83

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 1:32:51 AM

Astyreal

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/2/2010
Status: offline

Redirecting things in a more positive manner; which of the scenarios are least burdened by some of the structural bugs (i.e. convoy) that are out there?

It's a bit difficult to see where the problems lay. You get some reports that folks are able to successfully run through Global war hotseat.

Elsewhere you hear that any such attempt is folly

(in reply to Astyreal)

Post #: 84

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 2:10:43 AM

Courtenay

Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline

I am able to proceed with the global war. There are certainly bugs, but except for one bug dealing with peacekeepers, nothing that couldn't be worked around.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Astyreal)

Post #: 85

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 2:32:01 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

I've played one complete Global War game hotseat through M/A 1945.

I'm currently in M/A 1944 of my next Global War game.

Played Hotseat though. I haven't tried netplay at all.

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 86

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 5:15:45 AM

hjc

Posts: 66
Joined: 2/12/2009
From: Australia
Status: offline

In the spirit of the thread title "chiming in" - I haven't bought this game, but I would if it had AI.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 87

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 7:53:30 AM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BofH

In the spirit of the thread title "chiming in" - I haven't bought this game, but I would if it had AI.

Well, it will be build eventually, since that is the reason Steve started to program this monster. It probably will take a long time to build...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to hjc)

Post #: 88

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 3:19:43 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM

Stevens Agreement has just been extended for the next 10 years

That is a piece of very good news from the CEO of Slitherine, which owns Matrix.

Steve - congratulations for the trust and shown support from the management.
JDM - thanks for the continuity, and letting us know personnally.

Good news indeed.

You seem to be the only one who knew who he was, I thought it was a jokester personally. He should have indetified himself IMO. And what does ten years mean. Ten years to finish MWIF? I do not want to insult the man but he could have presented a clearer picture to all of us. But then again nothing is very clear here anymore

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/1/2014 4:29:26 PM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 89

RE: Chiming in - 6/1/2014 5:00:20 PM