warspite1
Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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Interesting observation SenToku, and there is some truth in what you say, although I don’t know to what extent we are that peculiar.
Turning first to the documentary; this is not a military history documentary as such, but is from a series entitled Clydebuilt: The ships that made the Commonwealth. It features four ships, built along the great River Clyde in Scotland that helped forge links with countries throughout the Commonwealth, and features: Cutty Sark, HMS Hood, CS Mackay-Bennett and Robert E Lee. Hood was no doubt chosen because she was the largest warship in the world when built, she spent a part of her life on what was basically a hugely successful public-relations, “show the flag” world tour, and was to meet a tragic end. In other words – a great story to be told.
Regarding remembering failures and defeats, I think generally speaking the British character is one of understatement and reserve. We don’t tend to shout about successes from the roof tops, although interestingly, and in complete contrast to your assertion, there is a feeling that seems to be gathering momentum, that we “bang-on” about World War II too much!
Do we celebrate our successes? Yes I think we do. And by “our”, that includes the contribution of our Commonwealth partners (and other allies) where applicable too.
So in World War II we celebrate the Battle of Britain, El-Alamein (together, surely the most celebrated battles), the Battle of the Atlantic, the Dambusters Raid, D-Day, the sinking of the Bismarck. Other notable victories from history – Waterloo and Trafalgar perhaps chief amongst them – are remembered too.
I do not think we “celebrate” defeats, but we remember the gallant – and not so gallant – failures and we do not sweep these under the carpet - Dunkirk, Arnhem, Singapore, the retreat to the Indian Frontier. Similarly from earlier times we have Gallipoli, the American Revolution and the Boer War.
I find it curious – and I have no explanation - as to why we fail to remember the Civil War. I get the impression that the US version is still a very big discussion point in the US, but our internal dispute seems to be forgotten. I suspect the vast majority of people in the UK could not even tell you what century it took place in, which English King lost his head and who won…..
As for Hastings. We are talking about 1,000 years ago. Even so, it is rightly given importance because of the way the Norman victory changed the course of England (as it was then) and ultimately the United Kingdom. How would England have developed without French influence? Probably for the worse but who knows? It was certainly a very key moment in our history and so should be studied - but neither celebrated particularly as a defeat or a victory imo.
Is Hastings more important than the creation of the Empire? Well that’s another very interesting topic. I think that there is a reason for battles that led to the Empire not being celebrated – simply because in the 21st century world most people would prefer to forget we had an Empire.
Perhaps moreover, because of the lack of sophistication/advancement with many of the peoples of the colonies and territories we came to rule over, the way conquest was secured does not lend itself to such celebration. In some cases, expanding the Empire was more about kicking the French out (Canada, West Indies) than about defeating the indigenous people in some heroic epic battle. Perhaps the notable exception is India (although even here there were contretemps with the French) – but for the reason I mentioned above, the name Robert Clive seems to have been forgotten – certainly in schools.
I would be interested to hear from others as to how they view their own country’s take on military successes and failures.
Edit: Apologies I forgot to add the Battle of the Atlantic 
< Message edited by warspite1 -- 6/27/2014 9:29:03 AM >
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