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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/22/2014 4:54:07 PM

Miller

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No luck finding any threads on the sweeping ahead phenomena.

My fighter production is: 278 Tojo IIc.

Factories turned off: Nick KAIc 60; Dinah KAI 30; 318 A6M5c.

I kind of regret having so much Tojo IIc...the plane is nice, but by the time I got her it isn't that great.

I am starting to think that for Army fighters Japan merely needs to r&d Oscar and Tony lines and then the end war uber planers: Ki84, Ki83, Ki94. No need for the Tojo line -- Japan can prosper with just Oscar, Tony and for some heavy lifting Nicks until Ki84 starts to show up. Throw in one factory of 30 Dinah KAI for night fighting protection.

Maybe I am all wet here in my thinking, but I don't think so...

I am following your lead and researching the Oscar IV and Tony 100 for the CL cannon armament. Yes they will suffer at the hands of the modern Allied fighters but those that survive should have a much better chance of bringing down the dreaded 4E. Plus both have the added advantage of being SR1, compared to the Ki-84s SR3. Keep some Tojo production going as they are still potent against all but the best (P47, Spitfire, Corsair).

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/22/2014 5:23:48 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller
Keep some Tojo production going as they are still potent against all but the best (P47, Spitfire, Corsair).

Probably only the very large factory...all the size 30 will go to r&d some end war fighter.

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Post #: 2072

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/22/2014 11:37:55 PM

Lowpe

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I spot 2 BB and several escorts east of Mili heading southwest...

3 CA spotted at Tarawa...

I have sortied the KB, plus a heavy SAG escort to shepherd in some supplies to Nauru. I will approach for the west side which seems weak or not patrolled by the Allies. With a little bit of luck I can catch a surface bombardment group there...

Fighters in Burma stay undetected at Toungoo, will stay another day and see if they can catch some planes bombing at Prome.

Myojo advances another month 8/44...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/23/2014 12:38:31 AM >

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Post #: 2073

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 11:18:40 AM

Lowpe

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May 7, 1943

Night bombing of Moulmein. No lasting damage, flak gets a couple of planes.

Allies bomb in the Marshalls...

None of my surface fleet are spotted...

And that is the turn...

Burma: Allies have lots, and lots of units here. The color on the troops is interesting, and I feel good for now about the defense. Still worried about an attack to the south; but feel that Allies really need naval superiority to do it so I should have several more months to build defenses I think.

I have raised the supply markers at the bases in Burma in the hopes they will accumulate some for the upcoming monsoon.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 1:38:52 PM

ny59giants

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IMO, the Allies have probably committed too many American troops to this theater (Burma). The Americans will soon have superior power at sea and thus able to take bases almost at will in the Pacific. However, he needs enough troops to keep them prepping for their next objective to move forward in a steady manner.

Can you list what major American troops he has here??

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/23/2014 2:39:31 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 2:38:08 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

IMO, the Allies have probably committed too many American troops to this theater (Burma). The Americans will soon have superior power at sea and thus able to take bases almost at will in the Pacific. However, he needs enough troops to keep them prepping for their next objective to move forward in a steady manner.

Can you list what major American troops he has here??

I tend to agree with you...

I will get you a list later today...off the top of my head 2 infantry divisions, 1 marine regiment, lots of AA and ENG, TD unit, Airborne...some of those units on the road I have no clue, but they are probably regiment sized.

Don't forget I destroyed an American division or two in Java too, the remnants fled to Perth and I may or may not have sunk them at sea...I sank a big chunk at sea just don't know if they where Aussie or US.

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Post #: 2076

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 2:43:13 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

IMO, the Allies have probably committed too many American troops to this theater (Burma). The Americans will soon have superior power at sea and thus able to take bases almost at will in the Pacific. However, he needs enough troops to keep them prepping for their next objective to move forward in a steady manner.

Can you list what major American troops he has here??

I tend to agree with you...

I will get you a list later today...off the top of my head 2 infantry divisions, 1 marine regiment, lots of AA and ENG, TD unit, Airborne...some of those units on the road I have no clue, but they are probably regiment sized.

Don't forget I destroyed an American division or two in Java too, the remnants fled to Perth and I may or may not have sunk them at sea...I sank a big chunk at sea just don't know if they where Aussie or US.

If he realizes this error in force allocation at some point, look for a strong push towards the Indochina coast so that he can load up and head NE (there was some discussion of this in Jocke's AAR against Obvert, some time back).

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 6:41:14 PM

PaxMondo

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Agree with your assessment (too many US troops), which is a good thing for the IJ ...

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Post #: 2078

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 6:54:59 PM

Lowpe

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41st Division -- chewed it up in the Jungle some and is not at Prome anymore. I think I knocked it down to 100 AV last I saw it.
37th ID -- Prome
23 Marine Rgt -- blocking the Magwe push
131st Combat Eng Rgt -- Prome
637 tank destroyer btln -- Prome; not much AV but an interesting unit nonetheless.

32nd ID chewed up on Java, bits evacuated to Perth and then to where?

I am missing several, especially some of the ones I chewed up on Java.

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Post #: 2079

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 7:02:04 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

41st Division -- chewed it up in the Jungle some and is not at Prome anymore. I think I knocked it down to 100 AV last I saw it.
37th ID -- Prome
23 Marine Rgt -- blocking the Magwe push
131st Combat Eng Rgt -- Prome
637 tank destroyer btln -- Prome; not much AV but an interesting unit nonetheless.

32nd ID chewed up on Java, bits evacuated to Perth and then to where?
632nd Tank Destroyer -- chewed up on Java
641 Towed AT - chewed up on Java

58 Inf Rgt and 108th Inf Rgt destroyed in Kuriles.

I am missing several, especially some of the ones I chewed up on Java.

Added a few destroyed American units...

Finished my turn; capitol ships not spotted near Nauru and also in the Bay of Bengal. Would be nice to get a juicy bombardment in at Chittagong....but we are days away from that.

Move the Burma Fighters back to Bangkok, and near bye bases.

Shocked to see an Irving NF factory repair, only 1 point away from being fully repaired now...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/23/2014 8:05:10 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/23/2014 11:41:27 PM

Lowpe

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As I ponder the map and the strategic situation I think a few things have been accomplished or proven.

1. A temporary stalemate in Burma. The Allied forces moved out of Prome (25% less units), the building up in Bassein (and base building there) and the lack of bombing of Prome point to either a renewed thrust at Rangoon, or across the river north of Rangoon but south of Prome. Or, and most likely given the low number of vehicles at Bassein, simply base building.

That the Allies are resorting to night bombing again, points to Allied concern at the growing fighter strength (both in number and quality) of the Japanese fighter forces.

Will the Allies pursue a new strategy in Burma or simply be content to tie up Japanese forces for:

2. Given a stalemate in Burma....we can look for the Allies to push elsewhere, and they are really well placed to push in the Marshalls. And in the Marshalls, the Allies have been bold using their carriers twice to run sweep missions. There exists here the potential to engage the American carriers one last time very favorably. It just takes fuel...it might even happen this next day.

3. The Allies will continue with an aggressive anti-merchant ship submarine program. I need to counter this more strongly.

4. The concept of a Guerilla Air Force, hiding most of the time, only to swoop in and hit him hard works well but easy targets are disappearing as the Allies adjust. But what are the long term consequences of this strategy? It certainly conserves supplies for Japan...which is a major goal.

5. Against all odds, the Japanese Empire is doing pretty well since August of 42! It will only go downhill...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 2:05:39 AM

Lowpe

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May 8th, 1943

Night bombing of Moulmein. AA is pretty stiff there, several 10cm guns, no lasting damage done and at least one bomber shot down.

Allied troops in Bassein move towards Rangoon. Hm.,

An xak gets torpedoed but makes port ok near Manila.

The KB gets spotted, DL 1/1, near Nauru, by a bomber. Nothing else spotted...shucks. I was hoping for a light spotting on the xakls.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/24/2014 3:07:25 AM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 3:39:55 AM

PaxMondo

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You are mid-43 now. He will have Hellcats on all his CV's by now. Keep that in mind ... your A6M's have now really become shotguns; you need to expect to pretty much replace your air groups each time you use the KB from now on. The point being, it is more expensive for you to use the KB, but that doesn't preclude its use at all.

I would be picking my spots to defend and getting those set up. Get a few ENG's and get the AF's and forts built up that you will need along with a few garrison troops.

In 6 months or so the B29 will start to show. That means the DEI oil fields become vulnerable. The withdrawal from the DEI is a REALLY hard part of the game for the IJ. Very difficult to achieve coherently. After Burma, I hate the DEI the most. Most of the recent AAR's are a litany of units trapped without supply and no hope of rescue. Just so easy to get overrun and bypassed.

For me this game is all about looking 6 - 12 months ahead. I love it.

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Post #: 2083

RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 11:36:02 AM

Lowpe

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The latest sitrep in Burma....you can see some reinforcements heading towards Rangoon. I am guessing a Division? I am not sure what his goal is here, my troops in Rangoon are fully prepared, dug in (some up to level 5) and looking to fight in that nasty terrain.

I guess he is intent on really trying to capture my troops in Burma, an admirable goal, but why he doesn't push on Magwe and its 286 oil per day production is beyond me. Really, he could have destroyed that oil in July of 1942 or so and I am very pleased to have it still pumping here in May 43. He has destroyed the refineries though, curious.

I have managed to raise supply levels in Burma substantially by playing with supply demand arrows, but I really need to monitor them daily....I have a fresh infantry division very close to Pegu...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 11:40:54 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You are mid-43 now. He will have Hellcats on all his CV's by now. Keep that in mind ... your A6M's have now really become shotguns; you need to expect to pretty much replace your air groups each time you use the KB from now on. The point being, it is more expensive for you to use the KB, but that doesn't preclude its use at all.

I would be picking my spots to defend and getting those set up. Get a few ENG's and get the AF's and forts built up that you will need along with a few garrison troops.

In 6 months or so the B29 will start to show. That means the DEI oil fields become vulnerable. The withdrawal from the DEI is a REALLY hard part of the game for the IJ. Very difficult to achieve coherently. After Burma, I hate the DEI the most. Most of the recent AAR's are a litany of units trapped without supply and no hope of rescue. Just so easy to get overrun and bypassed.

For me this game is all about looking 6 - 12 months ahead. I love it.

Thanks...trying to be very careful here with the KB -- it is withdrawing, but the supply ships will run into Nauru while a strong surface group will steam in and then out offering some protection during the night I hope.

I feel that the KB presents a credible deterrent in the Centpac, and she can do that as easily in port hidden as she can out in the blue...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 12:27:31 PM

Lowpe

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Operation Brisbane:

The Emilies are gathered; I need to get some recon on Brisbane as to pick targets, and get a couple of subs into position.

My thought was to hit the industry here, but if there are other tempting targets I may go for them instead.

I wonder if the manpower there is sufficient to trash some industry with fires?

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/24/2014 3:41:32 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 1:20:30 PM

MrBlizzard

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Magwe refineries enigma.
I try to guess, as you say it's very strange your opponent bombed refineries, Japan has refining capacity in excess, it's not a critical target... maybe he made a mistake selecting refineries instead than oilfields, and afterwards he didn't check again and now he is convinced they're destroyed. Basically he is unaware they're still working

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/24/2014 2:51:34 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

Magwe refineries enigma.
I try to guess, as you say it's very strange your opponent bombed refineries, Japan has refining capacity in excess, it's not a critical target... maybe he made a mistake selecting refineries instead than oilfields, and afterwards he didn't check again and now he is convinced they're destroyed. Basically he is unaware they're still working

That is a big oversight, but you may be right. I just dunno.

Here is a snapshot of Oz, been like this for a while. I lost a splinter of a tank unit running around down south...it was eventually bombed out of existence. I am merely waiting for the Aussies to show up before evacuating out...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 1:42:16 PM

Lowpe

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I have a few factories for planes that I can bounce bad into r&d or production. Not sure what to do...

I have no r&d on the Ki 94; Shinden; the Ki83 good end war fighters. I could go after them.

I could enhance my research into the Sam J...

I could go after some interesting planes to me like Patsy or a kamikaze the Tsurugi or the Randy 102c NF. the Randy 102a might be decent high altitude fighter...comes fairly early but is slow compared to what it would be tangling with high up (plus two engines).

I could do nothing and save the supplies...which is what I actually am leaning towards. Just letting the factories go idle.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 1:59:16 PM

Lowpe

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May 9th, 1943

In the dark of night, 17%, two American destroyers are a little surprised to encounter such a strong force at Nauru, but they are well led and manage to execute a fighting withdraw suffering almost no damage.

But the IJN does protect the convoy bringing much needed supplies into Nauru.

I had been hoping the catch three CAs -- oh well.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 2:10:05 PM

Lowpe

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During the rest of the day the Allied air force rests...but two Chinese Corp are beaten up in China: 1 surrenders and the other retreats with heavy losses.

Too bad the KB was spotted yesterday, as anticipated Allied carriers sortied out exactly where I thought they would this time protected by a host of 2 ship screens.

Nauru gets 4000 supplies...

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/25/2014 3:11:31 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 6:03:55 PM

Spidery

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quote:

I have no r&d on the Ki 94; Shinden; the Ki83 good end war fighters. I could go after them.

I could enhance my research into the Sam J...

I could go after some interesting planes to me like Patsy or a kamikaze the Tsurugi or the Randy 102c NF. the Randy 102a might be decent high altitude fighter...comes fairly early but is slow compared to what it would be tangling with high up (plus two engines).

Are you building any of the engines for the Ki-94-II? Since the rocket loses so much at altitude you might want to go for that if you have the engines. Otherwise, suggest the Ki-102c to get a good late war night fighter.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 6:43:20 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery
Are you building any of the engines for the Ki-94-II? Since the rocket loses so much at altitude you might want to go for that if you have the engines. Otherwise, suggest the Ki-102c to get a good late war night fighter.

I think I am done with r&d night fighters...in that I have spent enough supply on them, and playing downfall has opened my eyes up to how tough it is to defend against the b29. Max nf squadrons, tracom pilots, and Frances, Peggy and Dinah, good to go here I think.

Ki-94-II comes in 2/46...hm. I am building the engine...how many factories to get her in a reasonable time assuming engine bonus?

OTOH, I had been thinking about flying low CAP, Oscar IVs, Frank, and 202s all low stacked between 8K and 15K maybe up to 20K. Throw Sam J in there too. One squadron would eat the dive bonus, but then the 202 should be able to pop up and counter dive.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 8:34:32 PM

Lowpe

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Well, we will see what the allied carriers do this turn...he has plenty of screens, and I think an invasion force at Tarawa or maybe it is just a bombardment force there. Hard to tell, my naval search pilots are pretty poor during the day.

KB, SAG, are loitering within range of Nauru, and land base air is massing. Nauru is within normal range of the Lilly DB, and I have 5 squadrons of those beauties...I also moved in a squadron of trained Jakes for night bombing - I doubt they will do anything else than get shot down, but you never know. Lots of Betties in the area and Emilies.

Having seen my strong surface fleet will he attempt a rapid fast strike to nail them, or will he pull back?

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 11:11:49 PM

Lowpe

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Burma

Looks like a push on Rangoon...which I just reinforced a little more, and will send some more troops there.

Perhaps a big Fighter presence out of Moulmein?

Very close to the Monsoon.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 11:16:39 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have a few factories for planes that I can bounce bad into r&d or production. Not sure what to do...

I have no r&d on the Ki 94; Shinden; the Ki83 good end war fighters. I could go after them.

I could enhance my research into the Sam J...

I could go after some interesting planes to me like Patsy or a kamikaze the Tsurugi or the Randy 102c NF. the Randy 102a might be decent high altitude fighter...comes fairly early but is slow compared to what it would be tangling with high up (plus two engines).

I could do nothing and save the supplies...which is what I actually am leaning towards. Just letting the factories go idle.

I always need NF's, and just because of numbers, most of the groups tend to be IJA fighter groups. That means I really have to have a good IJA NF. IF you haven't already, I would get those factories on your choice of the IJA NF that you are going to commit to.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 11:21:22 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think I am done with r&d night fighters...in that I have spent enough supply on them, and playing downfall has opened my eyes up to how tough it is to defend against the b29. Max nf squadrons, tracom pilots, and Frances, Peggy and Dinah, good to go here I think.

I agree, Downfall and Armegeddon both teach a lot of bitter lessons, and countering night bombing by b-29's is one of them.

I beleive, but I don't have the game open now, that only the Dinah of that list can actually catch a B-29. That means only those very few planes that are actually in the air at altitude will ever be able to engage ... all the rest will launch to no effect. Just a thought.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/25/2014 11:34:29 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
I agree, Downfall and Armegeddon both teach a lot of bitter lessons, and countering night bombing by b-29's is one of them.

I beleive, but I don't have the game open now, that only the Dinah of that list can actually catch a B-29. That means only those very few planes that are actually in the air at altitude will ever be able to engage ... all the rest will launch to no effect. Just a thought.

I don't think that is always true but I do know it plays a part. Frances was a great killer for Obvert and in my testing in Downfall has done very, very well. Peggy is unknown and not that much slower than the B29...Myrt has done well in Downfall which surprised me.

Myrt is IJNAF though...but in future games I will go after it more aggressively.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/26/2014 1:29:40 AM

topeverest

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If the allied player is dynamic and can perform leapfrog amphibious operations, I would worry quite a bit. On the other hand,
if he is more linear, you could be better off IMHO.

It's still concerning in Burma, despite the real estate you can afford to lose. PB is pretty close.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Agree with your assessment (too many US troops), which is a good thing for the IJ ...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 9/26/2014 11:30:46 AM

Lowpe

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May 10, 1943

5 days to Monsoon.

Night bombing: small raids at Tavoy and Toungoo.

Daytime:

Moulmein feels the full fury of a rested Allied bomber force and is shut down.

Bassein goes to size 4 AF; troops still moving into Rangoon.

China: force the surrender of another Chinese Corp.

Nauru: American carriers move south, screens move east, no engagements of any kind.