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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Burma Bungle!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/8/2014 10:18:32 PM

Lowpe

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Turn is away...

Fighters hiding in Burma, back off the front lines...

Out of Prome, we will see if the Allies continue to cross the river south of Prome...Rangoon has a corp HQ, an army HQ and a command HQ. Moulmein has a corp HQ and a command HQ. I may start pummeling Rangoon and north with artillery again, I have so much of it in the area...making the artillery stack of doom he might find hard to counter -- especially if he moves across the river and I can use the roads to move the ART up and back and really pound him. Allies lacking a road would never be able to react in time, and I should really cause a lot of attrition. That is given that he crosses the river line and it holds.

My ships were active for a couple of days but now they are all going dark again...Tone has a long way to go to return home empty handed from Karachi, but there is one more destroyer division out and about looking to catch the Allies in their supply line. Don't have fuel to stay long, but they are supported by three glen equipped subs searching...

Converted a factory from production to r&d of the Randy 102b FB.

Should cross 3 million supply in the HI shortly...

A large cleanup attack in the Changsha pocket should net another town and I think it has 20 or so light industry.

Curious to see what the Allies do with their fleet off Ocean Island...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/8/2014 10:29:11 PM

Lowpe

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Ok, below is the projected main road movement for the IJA ART stack of Death! It is almost all the big, big guns that did such terrible damage on Java. The Heavy stuff, and the not so heavy stuff. I think I can concentrated 25 units of ART.

If, and it is a big if, the Allies cross the river I hope to hold the jungle line, then use my infantry and eng to hold the line concentrate the ART and bombard until the Allies run away.

It will be brutal I think for the Allies.

Each hex will have plenty of AA btw.

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Post #: 2312

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/8/2014 10:43:25 PM

PaxMondo

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Just remember that big for the IJ isn't that big. The allies get AA units that the IJ would have to use 5 - 6 of their best units to match up. Ditto for arty. Not saying this isn't the right approach, just pointing out that what the allies can bring in terms of guns is far larger than anything the IJ has. Allied ID's have a lot more integral arty as well.

Still your biggest concern is a landing in force south of you. +4 ID's south of you with armor would be bad.

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Post #: 2313

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/8/2014 10:54:53 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Just remember that big for the IJ isn't that big. The allies get AA units that the IJ would have to use 5 - 6 of their best units to match up. Ditto for arty. Not saying this isn't the right approach, just pointing out that what the allies can bring in terms of guns is far larger than anything the IJ has. Allied ID's have a lot more integral arty as well.

Still your biggest concern is a landing in force south of you. +4 ID's south of you with armor would be bad.

Thanks for the dose of reality, but the stack was doing well at Prome, except for the one terrible register mistake, but now the Allies should be spread out or at the very least they are light in Rangoon currently. I should be able to get in a solid week of bombardments before the Allies can get more artillery themselves.

I think.

I think of the landing every day...and prepare for it every day. I am so gone at the first sign of it....

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Post #: 2314

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/8/2014 11:14:06 PM

PaxMondo

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I hope you will win the race. Landing at Tavoy, you will have to delay 5 - 7 days or he will beat you to Udon Thani. That's a lotta days.

Happened again in another AAR ... Herb's forces are trapped in SE Asia and he can't hold the China lines any more ... the worst nightmare for the IJ ... I don't recall exactly how Cantona did it, but the result is just terrible now ...

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Post #: 2315

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 12:48:57 AM

Lowpe

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I don't recall how Cantona did it either but I am still going by my strategy -- I have started to pull back and within two weeks will have the Magwe Push divisions out and back...I think I will be okay. That will give me 4 infantry divisions plus support units in reserve...we will see!

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Post #: 2316

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 12:50:44 AM

topeverest

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Understand and respect your point of view. I haven't yet reached the same conclusion that this is an unwise allied overconcentration. I must confess that I dont read opponent AAR's for fairness reasons.

If we are using the yardstick of speed to allied victory, then I would suggest we can view allied concentrations in Burma as misguided. That said, I don't believe that speed
to allied victory is the only fair measure, just the one we tend to use the most.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

But the allies have ground units to burn at this point in the war. How do we know the enemy has overcommitted in Burma versus just doing a better job of keeping combat units at the front?

They may have ground units to burn, but they're burning them in the most inefficent manner possible.

There's no need for a commitment to Burma as large as we're seeing here. Tiemanj is trying to kick the front door in with all the strength he can gather, when he really should have someone knocking on the door while everyone else climbs in a window.

< Message edited by topeverest -- 10/9/2014 1:55:29 AM >

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Post #: 2317

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 10:30:54 AM

Lowpe

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May 27, 1943

Night bombing of Moulmein. No losses for Japan.

Daytime heavy sweeps and and bombing of Moulemin's air field. Allies lose 4 bombers to flak including several 4es.

In China, as expected another good attack...one more town to take to free up the rail line and then on to other projects.

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Post #: 2318

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 10:32:45 AM

Lowpe

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Burma:

As expected the Allies stop their advance across the River...now I will move almost all the artillery to Rangoon and start pounding the British 2nd Division there.

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Post #: 2319

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 11:29:46 AM

Lowpe

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With the Allied concentration on Moulmein, I missed an opportunity to strike at Chittagong and Akyab which was left unprotected...I could have hit the big fleet from Rangoon one more time. Shucks, but just not worth the risk of flying into super heavy CAP.

My raiding units are spotted off Perth, and will head for home...

All quiet elsewhere, moving on to another Month and I fear looking at what new Allied toys they will be getting in June of 43.

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Post #: 2320

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 9:49:21 PM

Lowpe

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The turn is away and I have attempted to hide most of the Air Force in Burma, no bombing missions anywhere, as I work on repairing the pilots and planes from the recent successful air interceptions in Burma.

All raiding IJN ships are being recalled, spotted, and didn't get to hit anything. Better than getting sunk.

This day marks the first heavy Allied recon over Lunga and surrounding bases. Maybe he will move on there as I am leaving it.

Turning off Tojo IIc production...moved one factory to the Frank 84a. Don't want to overproduce.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/9/2014 10:07:57 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

If we are using the yardstick of speed to allied victory, then I would suggest we can view allied concentrations in Burma as misguided. That said, I don't believe that speed
to allied victory is the only fair measure, just the one we tend to use the most.

Japan is toast.

It is only a matter of when. Anything that delays that day is what I am playing for...

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Post #: 2322

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/10/2014 12:42:57 AM

Lowpe

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Burma:

A look at my Burma reinforcements. I get several INA units within a month plus or minus.

They have some stolen British weapons; and probably will go into rear area security. Two of them at a base should make it fairly resistant to paratrooper attack depending upon the terrain. Can't really think of another use for them right now.

They at least spawn in theater and won't need shipping to Burma.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/10/2014 10:21:50 AM

Lowpe

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May 28, 1943

Allies bomb bases in Burma at night. No real damage. Bomb Moulmein during day, and a heavily damaged destroyer that had been burning up is sunk.

The Salmon attempts to penetrate the screen on a tanker convoy near Saigon, the escorts depth charge here until she is forced to surface and promptly sunk. Well done!

0 Japanese planes lost today. Troop movements in Burma and China. Yanking troops out of Solomons and Marshalls.

Watching. Waiting. Training. Saving. Pretty typical for Japan in mid 43.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 12:36:01 PM

Lowpe

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Still avoiding battle in the air this turn...the Artillery is making a mass movement for Rangoon and new firing locations.

More evacuation from the Solomons. Little worried that I left it till too late, as now the Americans have consistent high levels of detection. I have a hideous amount of long legged search going, and a cruiser task force shepherding the troops, an Infantry division, and so far the only threat is one lone submarine. Plus I have 100 plus fighters covering and he can only hit me with 4e or his carriers. Which last spotted were east of Ocean...

I had hoped to use the Solomons as an air base to strike ships to the south, but the Allies have just totally bypassed this area all together. Maybe I will get an attack in at some point...

KB dark. My light carriers are almost done their upgrades.

I am sending a portion of an amphibious brigade to Victoria Point. I think the Allies have missed the boat on getting flank attack through Tavoy or south and cutting off the Burmese Army for now at least. It will remain the greatest threat...

This next turn I need to spend some serious time organizing the Marshalls. They are untenable...Nauru needs supplies, Kusaie and Ponape are strongly held and supplied, but 4es can wipe out supply startlingly quick. Wake is at the maximum...but really that means little without the IJN. Jaluit has a fair amount of troops but no airbase and the Allies will simply bypass it. I also need a tactic to take out his wandering two ship task forces, my air power is proving reluctant to engage. I am thinking of darting in and out with a CL led destroyer division.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 1:08:29 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

..., but 4es can wipe out supply startlingly quick.

Yeah, they can.

quote]ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Wake is at the maximum...but really that means little without the IJN.

As are most any island, no matter the defensive forces ...

quote]ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I also need a tactic to take out his wandering two ship task forces, my air power is proving reluctant to engage. I am thinking of darting in and out with a CL led destroyer division.

OK, let's think this through a bit. If LBA isn't engaging, then its either because it thinks it is too powerful OR not worth the effort. We'll go with the latter here, as they aren't CV's. Most of the time for "not worth the effort" it comes down to DL ... too low.

These are likely Fletchers, a pair of them. Sending a CL led DD div will likely get the Fletchers, but you will likely trade 1:1 ... you can't afford that and he would love it. The issue is that the CL's don't out range the Fletchers enough and their armor will allow them to get in range and get hits. As you know, IJNl DD's are pretty fragile ... 3 - 4 hits are usually enough to lose them.

So, at this point in the game, I will gladly trade 10 2E's to get a Fletcher. Gladly. If I can, I would move all of my considerable Nettie assets into that area. Get those Fletchers painted from at least 3 sides .. that should get the DL up to +8 and then they should attack. I'd set thrm for 9000 ft and let them bomb (if I have Air HQ's great for torps, but I don't think I would move any for this). Just me ...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 2:06:35 PM

Lowpe

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Thanks...I will try boosting the dl...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 6:11:41 PM

Lowpe

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May 29, 1943

No night bombing.

I was negligent in moving some fighters from Chiang Myi last turn, this turn they were swept and bombed heavily. 2 sweeps hit first and my fighters never made it to bombers, but did do pretty well against the escorts.

Whack-a-mole continues in China as the little cockroaches are all over the place cutting roads and rails. No biggie...I wonder if the China attempts to send supplies to these units and they spoil enroute?

Last town in the Changsha triangle will get deliberate attacked today --- 4000 AV vs 400 if they don't run away first.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 6:36:21 PM

Lowpe

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I have trained a squadron of Jakes up on naval bombing, fly them to Ocean Island which has no runway, and will attempt to deliver a surprise to a small 2 ship task force. I don't think these are Fletchers, but you never know. Lots of search up...

Moved almost 400 fighters into the Raheng triangle of bases where the Allies spotted some fighters yesterday. Hopefully, he will try a repeat of Chiang Myi and I can get a little more favorable results thru quantity.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/11/2014 7:41:36 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 6:43:16 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have trained a squadron of Jakes up on naval bombing, fly them to Ocean Island which has no runway, and will attempt to deliver a surprise to a small 2 ship task force. I don't think these are Fletchers, but you never know. Lots of search up...

I've had some decent results from Jake's flying against ships from 1000-2000ft. The 60 kg hand grenades they carry don't do a great deal of damage, but they can and do damage destroyers.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 7:15:01 PM

JocMeister

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Erik also had some good success with them flying from bypassed areas. Very effective when hitting fully loaded tankers...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 7:42:43 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Erik also had some good success with them flying from bypassed areas. Very effective when hitting fully loaded tankers...

That was part of my thinking

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Post #: 2332

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 7:49:30 PM

JocMeister

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*whooosh*!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 8:24:55 PM

Lowpe

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May 30, 1943

Night bombing in Raheng air field complexes, 3 planes lost on the ground...Dinah KAI intercept. Not too outrageous.

Allies bomb Moulmein, ships spotted at Calcutta -- perhaps he is trying another convoy to Rangoon? Plane losses are equal for the day including 3 P38 to op losses.

In the Marshalls, the Jakes fly and there is a 3 destroyer task force but they unfortunately miss...

An xak is torpedoed several times off Tokyo -- I forgot to put them on coastal approach. My bad...it was empty returning from Guam.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 8:29:52 PM

Lowpe

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China: Hengyang: Banzai!

May was a tough month in China for the Chinese! What is even better, from my frugal perspective, is that my deliberate approach to China I have not shipped any supplies here, but rather kept them on the HI.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/11/2014 9:36:05 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 8:54:57 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have trained a squadron of Jakes up on naval bombing, fly them to Ocean Island which has no runway, and will attempt to deliver a surprise to a small 2 ship task force. I don't think these are Fletchers, but you never know. Lots of search up...

Moved almost 400 fighters into the Raheng triangle of bases where the Allies spotted some fighters yesterday. Hopefully, he will try a repeat of Chiang Myi and I can get a little more favorable results thru quantity.

Jakes for me were the everything plane in the game against Jocke. I've not used them quite as much yet in my second game, but I haven't had as much opportunity yet either.

They are an ASW plane, a search plane on land and sea, night and day, and they performed recon by attacking naval units at distance even if they weren't successful.

As I had bases behind lines eventually, their LR transfer ability and decent payload allowed them to be used really well, as Jocke mentioned, against transports and tankers. They're not too successful hitting combat ships, but can let you know what's there.

The Norm is good too, and I had hopes for the Seiran, but it wasn't as successful in spite of having a much better payload of a torp or two x 250kg bombs.

Finally, all work well as kamis against transports.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 9:44:06 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Norm is good too, and I had hopes for the Seiran, but it wasn't as successful in spite of having a much better payload of a torp or two x 250kg bombs.

I was interested in using this plane...bad news.

Did you use Paul at all?

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Post #: 2337

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 9:51:04 PM

Lowpe

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Now with the Changsha triangle captured, and with 1943 almost half over, the next big attack will be at Kweiyang. The troops are racing there now, with 1200 AV already there, another 4000 coming from the east on good roads; 250 from the south (with some tanks) that need to clear straggling Chinese corps that have cut threatened the road/rail line. This 250 AV will increase to add another 400 or so as they work their way north.

From Kweiyang they will join 2500 AV already in the central plains.

In Burma, the Artillery Stack of Doom arrives in Rangoon today. One day to normalize supply, rest, plot fires, and then the bombardment will begin...three engineers and one construction unit are there to help them dig in.

KB dark.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/11/2014 10:23:52 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Norm is good too, and I had hopes for the Seiran, but it wasn't as successful in spite of having a much better payload of a torp or two x 250kg bombs.

I was interested in using this plane...bad news.

Did you use Paul at all?

I tried them all, but the Paul and Seiran have shorter legs, and so by the time they're available they can't get to the places they need to be in many cases, and they also are a bit slow, unmaneuverable and too fragile for the Allied AA in the late game.

Most of the time you'd have at least a level 2 field in the areas where you might want to get behind the lines that would still have supply, and if you do then you'd want to use the Grace. That is your best plane for late war for just about anything. It has extremely long transfer and strike ranges, and it's wicked fast and maneuverable, which seems to get it through both fighters and flak a bit better. Even though the Judy D4Y3-4 did a lot of damage with their big bombs, you're often better off using the Grace as it's got two chances to hit and hits slow ships down so the later DB/TB have better chances. (This is also why the Jake is so good against merchants. Lots of chances to hit and start fires).

It could still be a nice surprise if you have a few of the BIG I-400 class boats with 3 Seiran together and go merchant hunting to be annoying in the late war, but they won't be sinking CVs or even CVEs.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/12/2014 11:21:32 AM

Lowpe

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May 31, 1943

Out goes another month and Magwe oil is still pumping. Amazing.

No night bombing.

During the day, the Allies try Raheng, westernmost of the triangle airfields that protect Tavoy and they run into Japanese fighters.

Corsairs sweep in first...followed by bombers, heavily escorted, and then by a final Lightning sweep. Although a fair number of Tojo IIcs go down fighting I call today a win for Japanese Air Forces. Especially if you count the number of damaged bombers limping their way home...