RE: Burma Bungle!

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Burma Bungle!

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Burma Bungle!

Page: << < prev 79 80 [81] 82 83 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 12:00:14 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Economic Notes:

Today Fusan added 800K Resources bringing the total there over 1 million. For the last several months resources have been around 200K plus or minus 100K or so.

All the resources came directly from China.

So what changed?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/24/2014 1:05:33 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2401

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 3:06:46 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Did I ever mention I really hate night bombing before? Base was not over crowded, and will most likely get visited by another massive night bombing run tonight and if I plan on sending ships into Rangoon then I will lose another 20 fighters on the ground. Sigh. Maybe there will be bad weather.

Don't get me started on night bombing. I've had big level airbases at the 50-60% capacity lose fifty or so planes on the ground - I suspect the ground crews are stacking them wingtip to wingtip, or keep putting them next to the ammo dump.

Regarding my thoughts on night fighters

For the IJA:

Dinah - I'll take speed over armour. It's also far better armed than the Peggy or Nick NF's, which have miserable accuracy on their guns.
Randy - Pretty much the only late-war choice for the IJA, but it's getting it into action in time to matter that's the real problem.

For the IJN:

J1N1-S and Sa Irving - Bread and butter of the IJN night fighter corps. You get them early, the Sa gets radar, and you can build up a nice deep stockpile for the late war attrition game.

C6N1-S Myrt - Single engine, with radar. What's not to like? Better than the Judy NF by far, but I've a single factory working on the Judy just to see what it can do.

P1Y2-S Frances - You'll never get the Denko in time to matter, so you may as well go for the Frances as the IJN late-war night fighter with a radar set.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2402

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 7:32:10 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Finished my turn.

I decided to send one Cruiser force into Rangoon and then to Moulmein. Another 6 CA and 12 Destroyers could make it, but history has shown they won't, so why force it? They are going to Tavoy and sitting under CAP.

I moved a Zero squadron to night duty at Moulmein, which means I will lose several Zeroes to night bombing, but at least there will be one plane flying for the initial bombing wave and that will hopefully minimize the ground destruction.

Bombardment and bombing at Kweiyang in China.

That is about it.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2403

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 7:37:24 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Dinah - I'll take speed over armour. It's also far better armed than the Peggy or Nick NF's, which have miserable accuracy on their guns. Obvert had lots of nasty things to say about the Dinah NF, like falling from the skies in droves, impossible to keep squadrons filled, etc. And since neither has radar, I will go with Nick for durability until Peggy comes along. Except for those squadrons that must use Dinah. Dinah also comes 6 months later than NicK.

Randy - Pretty much the only late-war choice for the IJA, but it's getting it into action in time to matter that's the real problem. Without Radar I fear that Randy isn't that great and the Radar activates very late. So I see no point in r&d this plane. If I make it that far I will try to build it, but that is doubtful.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2404

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 7:53:47 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Don't get me started on night bombing. I've had big level airbases at the 50-60% capacity lose fifty or so planes on the ground - I suspect the ground crews are stacking them wingtip to wingtip, or keep putting them next to the ammo dump.

If I remember correctly you are being bombed very low, like 2-3K altitude which really makes for devastating raids. I have enough AA to prevent that, plus worthless balloons.

I suspect that in this game, if the Allies pursued an oil and then industry bombing campaign from the get go (July 42) it would be game over. Instead I got almost full Magwe oil production until June of 43. If I can make June of 44 for Palembang I will be ecstatic, but I don't see how I can manage it.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2405

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 8:50:37 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Obvert had lots of nasty things to say about the Dinah NF, like falling from the skies in droves, impossible to keep squadrons filled, etc. And since neither has radar, I will go with Nick for durability until Peggy comes along. Except for those squadrons that must use Dinah. Dinah also comes 6 months later than NicK.

It doesn't really matter what you send up against 4E's, they'll die in droves regardless.

What matters is getting shots onto the bombers to disrupt and damage them, and you're not likely to do that with the abysmal accuracy on the Nick or Peggy NF's. You're paying the HI for the two engines anyways, so you may as well get the best plane.

quote:

Without Radar I fear that Randy isn't that great and the Radar activates very late. So I see no point in r&d this plane. If I make it that far I will try to build it, but that is doubtful.

I disagree about the merits of the Randy.

Forget about the radar, it's nice to have, but not essential. Just consider the plane itself - it is the only IJA night fighter that can do all three things that you need in a night fighter. It can catch a B-29, it has good heavy and (more importantly) accurate guns to shoot at and it has the durability and armour to stick about day after day.

The only real downside is the late arrival date. I'm starting to wonder if making the effort towards getting the airframe in service before 6/45 might actually be worth it. It would give you a first-rate night fighter (and more importantly, an IJA night fighter) at the time when you need to preserve big urban centers as best you can.

quote:

If I remember correctly you are being bombed very low, like 2-3K altitude which really makes for devastating raids. I have enough AA to prevent that, plus worthless balloons.

I thought the same. I was wrong. You'll damage them, you might knock out a couple of bombers over several raids, but you won't stop the airbase getting trashed and the aircraft being wrecked on the ground.

quote:

I suspect that in this game, if the Allies pursued an oil and then industry bombing campaign from the get go (July 42) it would be game over. Instead I got almost full Magwe oil production until June of 43. If I can make June of 44 for Palembang I will be ecstatic, but I don't see how I can manage it.

Obvert did an excellent post on his AAR exploring the ranges of the B-29 from various bases in Oz and Burma that I can't seem to find for the life of me. If you can dig it up, it might be worth reviewing.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2406

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 9:40:15 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Obvert did an excellent post on his AAR exploring the ranges of the B-29 from various bases in Oz and Burma that I can't seem to find for the life of me. If you can dig it up, it might be worth reviewing.

I have gotten into the habit of re-reading Obvert's AAR two months in advance of my game date. I haven't come across that post, but I do vaguely remember it. It isn't great reading. I will keep my eye peeled for it.

I am around page 42 and have yet to come across it yet. They didn't really start night bombing until 44?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/24/2014 10:47:53 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2407

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 9:42:51 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

If I remember correctly you are being bombed very low, like 2-3K altitude which really makes for devastating raids. I have enough AA to prevent that, plus worthless balloons.

I thought the same. I was wrong. You'll damage them, you might knock out a couple of bombers over several raids, but you won't stop the airbase getting trashed and the aircraft being wrecked on the ground.

Yes,you are quite correct in that the airfield and planes get trashed, but thankfully the price is too high in my game for the Allies to pay...he stopped low level bombing airfields a long time ago. Not so for troops, alas.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2408

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 9:45:08 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
It doesn't really matter what you send up against 4E's, they'll die in droves regardless.

What matters is getting shots onto the bombers to disrupt and damage them, and you're not likely to do that with the abysmal accuracy on the Nick or Peggy NF's. You're paying the HI for the two engines anyways, so you may as well get the best plane.

Well, you are going for speed and guns, I am going for staying power. It will be interesting to see which is better. Complex game yields many correct answers.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/24/2014 10:52:53 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2409

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 10:02:13 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

I have an impending fear of this this next turn.

I did, or didn't do, something that is going to really hurt. I feel it in my bones. I have had this nameless dread on several occasions, normally when I tried to force some naval bombardment or complex air attack, but it feels different this time. Perhaps it is my fever...perhaps everything will work out, but I don't think so.

It is irrational, this strange trepidation.

But then I think it is the normal state of mind for Japan in mid 43 and will stay with me for the rest of the game. And grow. You cannot be too paranoid in this game...surely that can't be healthy?

Why do I like this game?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2410

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 11:37:06 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Obvert did an excellent post on his AAR exploring the ranges of the B-29 from various bases in Oz and Burma that I can't seem to find for the life of me. If you can dig it up, it might be worth reviewing.

I have gotten into the habit of re-reading Obvert's AAR two months in advance of my game date. I haven't come across that post, but I do vaguely remember it. It isn't great reading. I will keep my eye peeled for it.

I am around page 42 and have yet to come across it yet. They didn't really start night bombing until 44?

Yes, IIRC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

If I remember correctly you are being bombed very low, like 2-3K altitude which really makes for devastating raids. I have enough AA to prevent that, plus worthless balloons.

I thought the same. I was wrong. You'll damage them, you might knock out a couple of bombers over several raids, but you won't stop the airbase getting trashed and the aircraft being wrecked on the ground.

Yes,you are quite correct in that the airfield and planes get trashed, but thankfully the price is too high in my game for the Allies to pay...he stopped low level bombing airfields a long time ago. Not so for troops, alas.

I'm forgetting that the tempo of the air war in my game is extremely passive compared to most.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
It doesn't really matter what you send up against 4E's, they'll die in droves regardless.

What matters is getting shots onto the bombers to disrupt and damage them, and you're not likely to do that with the abysmal accuracy on the Nick or Peggy NF's. You're paying the HI for the two engines anyways, so you may as well get the best plane.

Well, you are going for speed and guns, I am going for staying power. It will be interesting to see which is better. Complex game yields many correct answers.

Here's hoping we'll get to figure out whats best.

As a side note, I neglected to follow my own advice regarding the Ki-202. After talking you into producing it, I've went with the Ki-201 in my game with Lokasenna...

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2411

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:28:16 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

June 15th, 1943

The heavy cruisers are on the prowl, and thanks to good night naval search they dodge two small Allied task forces and find a screening force just outside of Rangoon.

The Hawkins takes several penetrating hits and now can the IJN Cruisers find the enemy supply convoy?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2412

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:34:11 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

But first, a trailing destroyer squadron tries to meet up with the IJN Cruisers only to find out to their surprise that they are enemy ships.

Luckily, the destroyer squadron is quick to react and manages to fight off the superior enemy with elan.

The destroyers continue on towards Harbor Rangoon...where they see, and hear, heavy gunfire and the heavy clouds are illuminated in a eerie blood red light from ships burning. But whose ships?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2413

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:40:04 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Deciding not to wait for the missing destroyer squadron, the IJN Heavy Cruisers steam into Rangoon catching Allied ships at dock.

The Java, the only serious warship present, is hit immediately with a 20cm shell, perhaps from the Tone although the Myoko also claims first hit, and is then subsequently hit with a torpedo dooming the ship and the convoy.

Banzai!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2414

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:45:41 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

I've not had the Tone class perform well in surface actions.

Presumably, since yours didn't ram any friendly ships here, you replaced the turd in command of her from game start.

Or maybe it's just that you had no CVs present for her to ram

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2415

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:47:07 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

And while the bloodbath is happening in Rangoon, the destroyer squadron meets up and joins with cruisers escorting them back out of burning Rangoon, while heavy flashes of light, like distant thunder, illuminate their destination: Moulmein was being bombed at night.

With daybreak, the reinforced Japanese force heads for Moulmein, close, but float planes find two Allied ships and a relatively short engagement follows.

The crews however are tired, and the ships starting to run low on ammunition, but a penetrating hit is scored on the Sumatra before both forces disengage.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2416

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:54:37 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Smoke rises lazily from Moulmein, and every bleary eyed sailor strained their eyes looking for enemy planes and hoping for Zeroes and Tojo's.

They would not be disappointed, but the sailors' day was far from over as they manned their anti aircraft guns and watched the whirling fight in the air....

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2417

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 1:58:53 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

The sailors only wanted this day to end, while the pilots were content to dish out payback to the Allied planes...

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2418

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:03:28 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

And then it happens! Enemy bombers get thru, but they are carrying torpedoes!

Oh, the horror!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2419

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:06:42 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Vengence!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2420

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:08:25 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

And they day finally ends....a reasonable day.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2421

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:20:20 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

The battle isn't over...more Allied ships have rounded the horn of Burma.

Unbeknownst to the the Allies, a powerful second heavy cruiser force arrives at Tavoy and is not spotted!

But how can the IJN get the damaged ships at Moulmein away? Surely, Lightnings and Corsairs will sweep Moulmein in great number and then bombers will arrive to pound the port so staying put is not an option.

Steaming down the coast is perilous too though.

Choices? How to inflict a crushing naval defeat on the Allies...and avoid losses to the IJN?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2422

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:25:40 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I've not had the Tone class perform well in surface actions.

Presumably, since yours didn't ram any friendly ships here, you replaced the turd in command of her from game start.

Or maybe it's just that you had no CVs present for her to ram .

The Tone is undamaged from her recent activities and freshly rearmed.

She is having a good war for me so far: two long range solo commerce raids complete with several xaks, escorts, and 2-3 armed merchant cruisers sunk, plus the destruction from last night.

I was hesitant about including her on the mission into Rangoon, she is so speedy I didn't want to slow her down...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/25/2014 3:37:08 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 2423

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 2:36:10 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

All those ships sunk, puts my tally now at 800 Allied ships sunk!

Not all was great, a tank regiment got trashed (I left it on railroad cars in northern Burma) and a Mortar unit also got hit, but only lost one gun. I lost an Iboat off Burma too. Mandalay is now British again.

Well, I am off to sleep, too sick with a cold to do the turn. Any counsel on how to save the Aoba would be greatly appreciated!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2424

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 3:54:50 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

You used him on Tone?!?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2425

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 11:37:20 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You used him on Tone?!?

Sure. The Tone is one of my most active ships. Sure beats putting him in a BB that sits in port. I am quite happy with the Tone's performance...sure beats yours.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 2426

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 11:55:33 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

The Aoba and damaged ships are going into an escort task force at mission speed making a dash for Tavoy. Very risky, even without the Allied fleet close by. They will be escorted by the Tone and 4 undamaged destroyers. I have yet to have any luck with screening task forces actually engaging, so I have dismal hopes here.

Meeting up with them will be a powerful surface fleet of 6 CA and 9 DD. I thought about breaking it down smaller, but because I wanted to have plenty of LRCAP I decided on fewer, larger task forces. 15 is awfully large. Too large? Tanaka is in charge.

Moulmein air field is abandoned. Tojo and Zeroes went to the Raheng triangle bases where they are flying LRCAP over the fleets. I suspect Moulmein is going to see the full fury of the Allied air force...no reason to be there.

At Bangkok 70 Vals, 17 Kates and 250 fighters are set for a 6 and 5 hex naval strike. I probably made a mistake adding the Kates, but well, there you go.

In Burma, 1 sentai of Betties will bomb Akyab's port (full of ships), 1 sentai of Zeroes will sweep (no fighters this turn) and another sentai of Betties are going to perform a low level limited range naval strike. Naval search is heavily ramped up.

My idea of a perfect day would be the Allied task forces head towards Tavoy looking to engage the Aoba, but my two screening surface forces encounter him instead. The naval battles go well for Japan, the Aoba makes Tavoy and disbands (fat chance), the Allied fleets are stuck near Tavoy far from fighter coverage, and the Vals and Kates do them serious harm, and while the Allied planes are all down south the Betties up north nail ships both in port and at sea. And Moulmein port is heavily bombed by the Allies and their sweeps meet empty skies.

In China, the capitol's airfield is being bombed and swept. Bombardment at Kweiyang again.

Anxious to see what goes wrong!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2427

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 12:13:49 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

I am expecting the Allies to be very aggressive with their surface fleet today...hopefully I can deliver a crushing blow.

Their naval strike planes are weakened from yesterdays losses.

My heavy cruiser strike force is not detected and should be a nasty, nasty surprise.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2428

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 3:48:23 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You used him on Tone?!?

Sure. The Tone is one of my most active ships. Sure beats putting him in a BB that sits in port. I am quite happy with the Tone's performance...sure beats yours.

But she only has forward-facing guns! Travesty!

I like Kongos. I'd put him in a Kongo.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2429

RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/25/2014 4:42:10 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You used him on Tone?!?

Sure. The Tone is one of my most active ships. Sure beats putting him in a BB that sits in port. I am quite happy with the Tone's performance...sure beats yours.

But she only has forward-facing guns! Travesty!

I like Kongos. I'd put him in a Kongo.