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RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 11:17:14 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		Night attack are lottery. There is chance but i will not count on it.
Also it looks that single engine planes perform better in night raids.

My luckiest strike was 20 B6N2 attack at 0% moon enemy slow battleships. They damage two BB with single TT hit each

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Post #: 4531
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 11:26:47 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		If you can predict a few landing sites you might be able to 'short range' his forces, as it looks like he'll have CVs on the front end of things and not on the Kuriles side.

Set a few at 1 hex range from near landing sites so they won't go to the CVs and only on the landing. Expendables like FP and some kamis especially. However you do it your goal is to spread his CV air over many hexes so it has to react to all kinds of different strikes on different TFs at different heights. They will wear down, especially if he just lost 130 planes in an ill-advised airfield strike.

Try of course to use bases that have no chance of being bombarded be surface forces. You have so many options here, and it should be really hard to make this invasion work, especially after day 1 when you sink more than half of his CVEs and further whittle down his airframes. Even damaged planes are great, as they're out for day two.

Do you have small quick TFs to send on the Kuriles side too? He's gonna run out of ammo fast and there is no place to get more until and invasion succeeds.

How many fighters did he lose? Even 20-30 fewer Hellcats tomorrow will mean a big difference in performance and duration of effective CAP. Tomorrow looks like the day!






< Message edited by obvert -- 5/20/2015 12:31:34 PM >

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Post #: 4532
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 11:36:09 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		No kamikazes yet.

I was thinking the same thing about hitting the invasion fleet. He is going for Kushiro or the two bases to the east. I have manged to double the AV to 210 on Shikotan, but it won't be enough. Will switch to building up Hokkaido now, I think.

I am just now picking and selecting strike forces. I really want to get the Myojo in on the invasion fleets/baby carriers but if I hold them in reserve because really anything can damage a CVE. If he invades more than one spot, his cap will be even weaker, so I think max attacks on the invasion fleet set to very short ranges. Then as you say attacks on the deathstar which I bet stays west to shield his fleets.

I am not sure about setting a squadron to LRCAP or not over the likely bases.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 4533
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 11:36:34 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Go get him!



< Message edited by JocMeister -- 5/20/2015 12:37:28 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4534
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 12:25:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I am going thru the turn, thinking about restricting the air attacks to hit his invasion fleet, like Obvert said.

But, several times this game, I have tried to get cute restricting ranges and it has always come back to bite me. So my thinking is now to max naval search, and hit him with the max I can set to full normal ranges, and simply have faith in my local commanders. With one exception, I will use a Myojo squadron set to four hexes since it is being escorted by Jacks and they will be looking to hit Kushiro or Kunashiri.

I have so many planes still traveling in, I shouldn't try and get clever here. It is simply attack!

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Post #: 4535
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 12:43:23 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Aside - he has consolidated forces, which makes it harder. IMHO, the best option now is to pulse directly into his CV hex with everything. the harder part is finding that hex.

Perhaps you should wait until he commits to an invasion to give yourself time to aggregate as much as you can and a better chance to make the counter pulse work.

IME, these are always scrums. You throw absolutely everything at the enemy and hope to break up the force enough that future KAMI and LBA will win the day. Sequence has some value, but it is mostly about overwhelming the combined force.

Can you be specific what you have to commit to the battle?

No pressure! This combat sequence will determine the timing of the outcome of the game.

good luck.

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Post #: 4536
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 12:43:57 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		I would limit the attack range on all planes too.

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Andy M

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Post #: 4537
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 12:53:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Good thought Topeverest. If I wait a day I can pulse in everything to the invasion hex or hexes or pick a hex.

Now you have thrown me into turmoil...perhaps I should limit my attacks to the potential invasion cites of Kushiro, Shikotan, and Kunashiri, while building else everything up for the next day. Shikotan could be tough to hit, without wandering into his deathstar I think, however.

He will keep planes on naval attack in case I send out my surface fleet? Perhaps one more day of grinding air battles and then hit him with everything on the next day. Assuming the invasion starts, I think some of his surface ships will have expended ammo bombarding.

Decisions, decisions, but I think maybe I like waiting a day for an even bigger strike.

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Post #: 4538
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 1:08:29 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No kamikazes yet.

I was thinking the same thing about hitting the invasion fleet. He is going for Kushiro or the two bases to the east. I have manged to double the AV to 210 on Shikotan, but it won't be enough. Will switch to building up Hokkaido now, I think.

I am just now picking and selecting strike forces. I really want to get the Myojo in on the invasion fleets/baby carriers but if I hold them in reserve because really anything can damage a CVE. If he invades more than one spot, his cap will be even weaker, so I think max attacks on the invasion fleet set to very short ranges. Then as you say attacks on the deathstar which I bet stays west to shield his fleets.

I am not sure about setting a squadron to LRCAP or not over the likely bases.




How do you know it won't be enough? And not enough for what?

Firstly, if he's going for Hokkaido that's silly right now as you can back load more troops on it from the Sapporo side to send in, plus that activates kamis. I think the two islands closest to Hokkaido do as well.

Also, the invasion turn is not the battle. That's just a landing, and he might have enough to take the base but it's not a shock attack so it'll have to be the next day, during which you fly more strikes. He could take the base and end up with not enough air cover to keep it.

If your forts get to level 4 at Kushiro the territory is good enough to hold with half as much AV as he brings for at least a few turns. He has to bank on getting bases quickly and then building and reinforcing them. One won't be enough, and small islands are way better than a bigger landmass like Hokkaido.


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Post #: 4539
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 1:26:54 PM   
Mike McCreery


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Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		I agree with Obvert. He would be foolish to attack Hokkaido without any backup islands taken. It would be sensible for it to be an island invasion.



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RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 1:34:47 PM   
Encircled


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From: Northern England
Status: offline 		I'm not even sure that would do as well to be honest.

He's certainly pushing the boundaries of what is possible for the allies at this stage I think.

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Post #: 4541
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 2:26:50 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Kushiro does activate kamikazes, just barely, 15 hexes from sea from Tokyo. The islands won't.

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Post #: 4542
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 2:40:47 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kushiro does activate kamikazes, just barely, 15 hexes from sea from Tokyo. The islands won't.


It's 20 hexes!

(20 hexes by sea, right?)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/20/2015 3:51:57 PM >

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Post #: 4543
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 3:00:12 PM   
Drakanel

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 4/6/2015
Status: offline 		Just finally finished reading this monster thread. I admit I was a bit hasty in some parts, I wanted to get to the good (recent) part...

I'm afraid I can't give any suggestions since I'm a noob, but I will be watching and enjoying the show!



Good luck on the next turns, I hope for a massive carnage. Carnage of your enemy's ships, obviously

< Message edited by Drakanel -- 5/20/2015 4:05:02 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 4544
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 3:08:16 PM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kushiro does activate kamikazes, just barely, 15 hexes from sea from Tokyo. The islands won't.


It's 20 hexes!

(20 hexes by sea, right?)

+1
20 hexes from Tokyo by sea or closer
So enything West of Etorofu will activate kamikaze
Etorofu is 21 hexes by sea from Tokyo

< Message edited by koniu -- 5/20/2015 4:11:43 PM >

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Post #: 4545
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 3:54:11 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kushiro does activate kamikazes, just barely, 15 hexes from sea from Tokyo. The islands won't.


It's 20 hexes!

(20 hexes by sea, right?)

+1
20 hexes from Tokyo by sea or closer
So enything West of Etorofu will activate kamikaze
Etorofu is 21 hexes by sea from Tokyo


Which is odd. I'd think anything in the Kuriles should activate kamis. I'd also think that anything on the HI anywhere would activate kamis, but ...

Here is a map of the region with the distance by sea that I think is correct. Is it true that by the rules if the Allies land in Bihoro or Kanazawa that kamis are not activated?

7.4.2.3 KAMIKAZES
Kamikazes are activated if the Allies own a base within 15 hexes (traced by sea only) of either Tokyo, Takao, or Saigon. However, these will never activate before January 1, 1944.

[edit: now 20 hexes - From the patch notes:

78. Gameplay Change: The kamikaze activation range has been changed from 15 to 20 hexes. The range was not changed when the game scale was changed ]

Once Kamikazes are activated, the Air Unit Information Screen for Japanese players will show
a Kamikaze option if no squadron has been converted to kamikaze yet this day and if the
aircraft squadron is of the appropriate type (essentially anything other than a Transport aircraft
squadron can become a Kamikaze squadron). The player is limited to one conversion per day,
but may not re-convert a Kamikaze unit to regular status. The computer will prompt the player
to confirm their choice before proceeding, giving you a chance to reconsider.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/20/2015 5:45:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 4546
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 4:05:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I bet Tiemanj doesn't know the patch change. I didn't, or maybe I did, but then I rechecked it in the manual recently. Oopsies.

This turn is another horrendously long one.

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Post #: 4547
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 4:41:37 PM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		Also remember that to be able to convert squadron to kamikaze unit it must be filled with green but happy pilots.

Average experience <50
Morale >90


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"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

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Post #: 4548
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 4:46:59 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Also remember that to be able to convert squadron to kamikaze unit it must be filled with green but happy pilots.

Average experience <50
Morale >90



Only one per turn is the drawback when you're in this situation. The pilots can be changed out immediately after turning it into a kami group. Make sure the first is a big one!!

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/20/2015 6:09:33 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 4549
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:14:12 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		And don´t panic in case your strike fail tomorrow. You have every opportunity to make this a decisive Japanese victory. Good luck.

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Post #: 4550
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:37:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Okay, I did my turn, and didn't throw everything at him. Tomorrow, I will as that lets me build up even more, and hopefully know the targeted spots. Maybe if I hadn't done my ill-advised night attack with the Betties yesterday, but this way they have a day to repair and recover plus with everything else that is coming in it will be a bigger punch.

I decided on a limited, very limited naval strike really only to hit Kushiro, Shikotan, and Kunashiri. I feel Kunashiri is the main target. Just a feeling and observation of his detection levels. One squadron of each Lilly IIb, Myojo and Betties, all at different altitudes, flying from different bases and well escorted. I put one squadron, a splinter really, of Oscars on low naval attack to try and engage the Deathstar's CAP. These guys are happy go lucky pilots and I expect them all to die.

To try and screw up his reactions, the MTBs in task forces based on speed, are moving to Shikotan and then back to Hokkaido. Midget subs will do the same, all in single ship TF (midget subs only). Iboats and Rboats not damaged are continuing in.

I am continuing reinforcing both Shikotan and Kunashiri by air.

Additionally several 2 ship TF of DD, and one CL are making a run up the coast and back to Hirosaki, to sit under a very nice CAP. Just to see what happens, I put two destroyers on a full speed run to about where the deathstar is now, with orders to retire to Hirosaki.

I am hoping on whittling down his bomber force even more at Hirosaki, because It seems likely I will start the major unlimited strikes against the Allies here on the morrow.

Well, that is what I did. I really wanted to simply uncork everything at him, but maybe this is a little better plan. Probably, not but it is nice to think that it is. Just need to make some luck here.








Attachment (1)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 4551
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:54:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Here is a look at on of the MTB task forces. Only got two of these fast puppies, but I am hoping they can be somewhat of a pain, and at least cause the Allies to expend ammo. Maybe one of the 4 or 5 task forces will get lucky and have a good run.

If not, and they survive, they go back in again tomorrow with all the bigger ships.

I plan on blitzing in multiple relatively small task forces 3-5 ship range from Hirosaki and Sendai and Iwaki tomorrow. All CL and Destroyers, while the KB will do who knows what. It will be exciting...






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4552
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:57:17 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Also remember that to be able to convert squadron to kamikaze unit it must be filled with green but happy pilots.

Average experience <50
Morale >90



Thanks, Koniu, I did forget that!

I am glad I started training LowN pilots...and was thinking of converting a Helen squadron first. Or I have enough planes to do one Frances squadron. Or both, over 2 days. Plus, the Myojo is screaming to be a Kamikaze too.


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Post #: 4553
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:58:18 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Also remember that to be able to convert squadron to kamikaze unit it must be filled with green but happy pilots.

Average experience <50
Morale >90



Only one per turn is the drawback when you're in this situation. The pilots can be changed out immediately after turning it into a kami group. Make sure the first is a big one!!


Well, once they do activate, I can get one off kamikazes and pilots might start to ram Allied bombers. All good.

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Post #: 4554
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:59:11 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

Just finally finished reading this monster thread. I admit I was a bit hasty in some parts, I wanted to get to the good (recent) part...

I'm afraid I can't give any suggestions since I'm a noob, but I will be watching and enjoying the show!



Good luck on the next turns, I hope for a massive carnage. Carnage of your enemy's ships, obviously


Welcome aboard, it has been a bumpy ride!

(in reply to Drakanel)
Post #: 4555
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 6:00:41 PM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

And don´t panic in case your strike fail tomorrow. You have every opportunity to make this a decisive Japanese victory. Good luck.


Or defeat

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Post #: 4556
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 6:20:39 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

And don´t panic in case your strike fail tomorrow. You have every opportunity to make this a decisive Japanese victory. Good luck.


Or defeat



Oh, boy. That is grim.

Well, lets see the timeline. Start invading tomorrow. Some bombardments. There are 28cm Howitzers at Etorofu, but nothing big on Shikotan or Kunashiri.

Then, after one day of landing, he will land again, and then deliberate or shock attack.

Tiemanj likes to stick around landing sites for days and days, so perhaps I can use that against him.


(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 4557
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 7:09:28 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
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Status: offline 		Just remember that the actual landings comprise only a small part of this campaign. Personally, I think you've just been handed a nice bunch of VP's.

The Allies might get a foothold, but there's no way they're going to keep a hold of it. Force as many naval surface engagements as you can - the Allies have a long way to sail to rearm, and even with the underway replenishment ships, they'll be hard pressed to keep ships in combat.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4558
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 7:19:58 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Well, tomorrow, I will probably throw everything I can at him.

Multiple airbases. Multiple strikes. About 3000 planes in all, probably a little less.

Army:
Nicks will fly and attack low. They are actually even trained in that.
5 Squadrons of Lilly IIb and IIc divebombers.
1 squadron of Helens trained in naval attacks. Probably around 8-10K.
Other Helen squadrons are awaiting conversion to Kamikazes.
Many Helen squadrons resting and repairing to hit the invasion beaches.

Lots and lots of Army Fighters.

Navy:
All the Betty squadrons.
All the Emilies squadrons.
All the divebombers I can lay my hands on.
All the torpedo bombers I can lay my hands on.
All the fighters I can lay my hands on.

I will sortie about 30 destroyers and CLs in small task forces.

The KB most likely will make a run to get behind the invasion on the opposite side of the KB. The mini KB will strike from above Hokkaido.

Whatever survives from the MTBS and Midgets today will go back in. Plus all the Iboats and Rboats will have caught up to the invasion force.

Then, I guesss, I will keep on doing it until I am out of Planes and Pilots and Warships and whatnot.

I hope to really put a dent into the Allied bomber forces with this next turn....he lost 100 yesterday. Tomorrow, he will be at his weakest, before a base falls, having to protect a landing or possibly even multiple landings.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4559
RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 7:38:02 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		If he thinks about what he is doing, he will withdraw.

He's got time on his side, there is no need to rush.

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Post #: 4560
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