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RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:09:46 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		From the above fight, you can see the dire shortage in American escorts.






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RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:13:48 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Night goodness, thank goodness.




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RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:21:23 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Lilly divebombers strike...bad weather really reduces the size of the strike, but we will take any damage.

An xak carrying vehicles and this oiler, left burning with fuel.




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Post #: 4713
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:27:38 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Nail some Allied bombers and good.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/24/2015 11:27:56 AM >

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Post #: 4714
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:32:34 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Lillies fly again in the afternoon, normally I don't get two naval strikes from land based air at such range, perhaps it is due to the squadrons being set to 10% naval search.

This transport is left with heavy fires, and heavy damage while the non-combat squads going swimming.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/24/2015 12:31:40 PM >

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Post #: 4715
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 10:35:14 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Another group of Lillies hit...darn what a great plane.




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Post #: 4716
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 11:15:12 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Despite 99 morale, 64 aggression, in the largest of the George Sentai's none of them sweep. The base was covered in ugly clouds and lightning bolts - so I have to assume it was the weather. Disappointing, but it is advanced weather.

The 4th Marines and company kick us out of Bihoro, it will be tough to hold on here in the short term in Hokkaido. My airlift got in 70 fresh AV - not a lot. Not a lot. Enemy PT boats are trying to isolate the ports.

Still, we inflicted 3-1 air losses on the Allies but lost 14 Dinahs doing recon here and in Indochina. Have to refine their settings.

We will keep fighting.






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Post #: 4717
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 11:48:43 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Lets talk kamikaze strategy, because they activated (thanks Koniu). I was disappointed I didn't get them last turn, but today is a new day.

I can convert one squadron each day. If I elect to not convert a squadron, it doesn't accumulate. Once converted they can't go back. Low experience and high morale are important factors in being able to convert a squadron. You can convert the main squadron even if all the planes aren't present.

All kamikazes use LowN to hit, however they can make attack runs at any starting altitude. Somewhere, I read that the initial attack altitude might play a role on where the kamikazes hit. Side -- belt armor, for very low attacks, and the higher the attacks more likely you might get superstructure hits or hits on tower or deck armor. Not sure if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Once converted the squadron can train, attack, or stand down.

Since I don't wan't to lose the squadron, a 10% rest order for an attacking Kamikaze seems important. All attacking planes are lost.

This is a Grigsby game at heart, and it rewards mass. Therefore, larger squadrons are more important to convert than say a Chutai.

So, what is the best strategy in using them that I have overlooked?










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Post #: 4718
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 11:52:34 AM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I can convert one squadron each day. If I elect to not convert a squadron, it doesn't accumulate.

It does accumulate up to seven squadrons. So if You don`t convert today tomorrow You will be able to covert two squadrons, next day 3. But max kamikaze conversion bank is 7



quote:

Once converted the squadron can train, attack, or stand down.

They can train but only lownaval attack skill (on all training settings)

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< Message edited by koniu -- 5/24/2015 12:57:09 PM >

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Post #: 4719
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 12:22:50 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Wow, Koniu, that is great to know! Once again plaudits!

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Post #: 4720
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 12:30:19 PM   
MrBlizzard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I can convert one squadron each day. If I elect to not convert a squadron, it doesn't accumulate.

It does accumulate up to seven squadrons. So if You don`t convert today tomorrow You will be able to covert two squadrons, next day 3. But max kamikaze conversion bank is 7



quote:

Once converted the squadron can train, attack, or stand down.

They can train but only lownaval attack skill (on all training settings)

This is an obscure subject for many of us that haven't yet arrived to kamikaze activation. Nice info, thanks
Is also naval search useful as skill for kamikaze?

_____________________________

Blizzard

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Post #: 4721
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 12:33:34 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		What is the thinking on converting Fighter squadrons to Kamikazes?

Cons: Lower bomb delivery, somewhat shorter range (arguable). Fighters are needed to escort.

Pros: Fast, armored, more get thru to strike. Large sized sentai and numbers matter.

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Post #: 4722
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:00:27 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Ok, I have to tell you I am really getting trashed here, but it is really great fun trying to figure out how to hurt the Allies.

I have a crafty use for my first Kamikaze I think. With I think a very good chance a lot penetrate if the planes fly. I am debating right now who to change over, 90% sure it will a Helen II squadron, although I would like heavier bombs in this instance so it might be a Judy squadron. Range will be short, 3 hexes.

A second target is obvious to me too, flying from Paramushiro to hit his convoy bringing more troops and supplies in, but there is a slim chance they do a fast speed run to the south and get out of range. Can Allied xaks make more than 4 hexes in a turn? Here there would be a winter penalty, but I don't see how he gets any fighters up and a Helen kami sentai would probably really deal the damage.

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Post #: 4723
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:03:08 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

Is also naval search useful as skill for kamikaze?


I don't think Kamikaze can search. I will let you know as soon as I bite the bullet and convert my first Kamikaze.

I have a bunch of fighter trained kamikaze pilots with 70 Air/70LowN/70 Defense/70 strafe. I bet they would be awesome, but maybe I need them more for Franks?

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Post #: 4724
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:31:39 PM   
koniu


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Status: offline 		Is also naval search useful as skill for kamikaze?
Kamikaze unit have possibility to set search % but i dont know if they actually search

I have a bunch of fighter trained kamikaze pilots with 70 Air/70LowN/70 Defense/70 strafe. I bet they would be awesome, but maybe I need them more for Franks?
I think waste of good fighter pilots there. If You use them as kamikaze in fighter plane they will not have chance to use air skill against CAP because i believe game engine will see them as bombers. They will only use defense skill to avoid being shot down and if survive they will continue kamikaze attack. They will never brake main mission and start dogfight with cap (at lest it is what i am experiencing)

Instead i will suggest to escort kamikaze with designed fighter unit



< Message edited by koniu -- 5/24/2015 2:34:46 PM >

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Post #: 4725
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:35:14 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Koniu, more great information.

Have you used the %search function on a Kamaikaze attack? It may help in getting them to fly, or don't they need any encouragement?

My thinking would be to use 10% search instead of stand down to insure the squadron doesn't get eliminated.

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Post #: 4726
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:48:36 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, Kushiro was the key to everything. Eventually you will find out how close were the Allies to failure had everything been singularly focussed.

Alfred


With near enough a 4:1 advantage in raw AV (to say nothing of firepower, troop quality and armor), Lowpe could have bombed and bombarded with all his might and thrown planes and ships wholesale into the meat grinder and the Allies would have still taken the base. Yes, they'd probably have some pretty damaged and disrupted units, but the base would fly the Stars and Bars.

In going for the ships, Lowpe has gained the VP's. Those are VP's that need to be made back by the Allies before they can declare victory.

For every in-game situation there's a perfect counter, in theory. Sadly the realities of PBEM play mean that putting theory into practice is far from easy.


+1


I disagree. Bombing the beaches made sense to me. Great that there's VPs now from the ships, but... just bombing out Sapporo will make those points back for him several times over. You really need to pay attention to land combats to see the effects of disruption, but it's there. Even if your bombs cause no casualties.

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Post #: 4727
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:49:52 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Despite 99 morale, 64 aggression, in the largest of the George Sentai's none of them sweep. The base was covered in ugly clouds and lightning bolts - so I have to assume it was the weather. Disappointing, but it is advanced weather.

The 4th Marines and company kick us out of Bihoro, it will be tough to hold on here in the short term in Hokkaido. My airlift got in 70 fresh AV - not a lot. Not a lot. Enemy PT boats are trying to isolate the ports.

Still, we inflicted 3-1 air losses on the Allies but lost 14 Dinahs doing recon here and in Indochina. Have to refine their settings.

We will keep fighting.







That's awfully, awfully close to your shores. Just a few hexes! Where are you big SCTF boys? Can you full speed them down his throat? Although I think it might be a few turns too late.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4728
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 1:51:38 PM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Koniu, more great information.

Have you used the %search function on a Kamaikaze attack? It may help in getting them to fly, or don't they need any encouragement?

My thinking would be to use 10% search instead of stand down to insure the squadron doesn't get eliminated.


Never. I always have designed search squadrons or "standard" bomber units have some search %.
Remember squadron to fly don`t need detect enemy directly. Other squadrons can do that to them.
DL is global number. If enemy TF is detected by one squadron, instantly all squadrons see that TF like they detect it be them self.

< Message edited by koniu -- 5/24/2015 2:52:24 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 4729
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 2:05:56 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Ok, converted my first Kamikaze unit.

Even more reason to set 10% to rest, thanks again Koniu for the invaluable help.

You can see the conversion costs 10VP. I might have known that at one point, but definitely forgot it.






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RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 2:25:40 PM   
MrKane


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Status: offline 		Well I do not have a lot of experience with Kami. However some time ago I read post made someone, Nemo or Memo I do not remember his nick, who made same tests. He was convinced that the best results with Kami you can achieve using two deployment methods. First, high altitude strike with heavy escort, second very low altitude attack without escort. He suggest that in second case escort fighters 2k above bombers are pick up by radar to early and it allows CAP to intercept. This theory does fit to my experience with B-25 low navy attacks I have been using against Spidery. Additionally, he suggest to use both methods together with hope that allied CAP will climb to intercept higher strike package.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4731
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 2:40:04 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Well I do not have a lot of experience with Kami. However some time ago I read post made someone, Nemo or Memo I do not remember his nick, who made same tests. He was convinced that the best results with Kami you can achieve using two deployment methods. First, high altitude strike with heavy escort, second very low altitude attack without escort. He suggest that in second case escort fighters 2k above bombers are pick up by radar to early and it allows CAP to intercept. This theory does fit to my experience with B-25 low navy attacks I have been using against Spidery. Additionally, he suggest to use both methods together with hope that allied CAP will climb to intercept higher strike package.



Will sweeps suffice to draw the CAP up, or only bombers work? I will give it a try, and see what happens. I suspect if you set the altitude to 100' they carry half the bombload.

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Post #: 4732
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 2:49:39 PM   
MrKane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Well I do not have a lot of experience with Kami. However some time ago I read post made someone, Nemo or Memo I do not remember his nick, who made same tests. He was convinced that the best results with Kami you can achieve using two deployment methods. First, high altitude strike with heavy escort, second very low altitude attack without escort. He suggest that in second case escort fighters 2k above bombers are pick up by radar to early and it allows CAP to intercept. This theory does fit to my experience with B-25 low navy attacks I have been using against Spidery. Additionally, he suggest to use both methods together with hope that allied CAP will climb to intercept higher strike package.



Will sweeps suffice to draw the CAP up, or only bombers work? I will give it a try, and see what happens. I suspect if you set the altitude to 100' they carry half the bombload.


Only in case they are level bombers as I know.
Sweep, sweep before bombers arrival, very rare situation and I have no clue how to achieve it :D

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Post #: 4733
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 4:24:36 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Turn is finished.

Allies can flip their turns faster, it is Japan that is caught out of sorts. So perhaps another turn later today.

First Kami attack going in.

Hopefully lots of sweeps, CAP traps, and perhaps luring ships past the coastal forts. Dropping some air mines for kicks.

We shall see the high/low kami attack but up high will other bombers and not kamis. Also a big bombing strike to shut down building, with lots of escorts target at the same hex. We shall see how well I can coordinate from a level 9 field with a ton of HQa around.

Perhaps the Musashi can catch the Deathstar at night!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/24/2015 5:24:59 PM >

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Post #: 4734
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 4:32:09 PM   
topeverest


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From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		IMHO - Think carefully before expending pilots with good low attack naval skill in piecemeal kami attack. Kamis are far more effective in mass with escorts

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Post #: 4735
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 5:13:43 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

IMHO - Think carefully before expending pilots with good low attack naval skill in piecemeal kami attack. Kamis are far more effective in mass with escorts


I did try the high low thing, but with escorted Kamikazes down low. Couldn't bring myself to send the first squadron in unescorted. But Oscars make for great low cover.


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Post #: 4736
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 5:27:38 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I disagree. Bombing the beaches made sense to me. Great that there's VPs now from the ships, but... just bombing out Sapporo will make those points back for him several times over. You really need to pay attention to land combats to see the effects of disruption, but it's there. Even if your bombs cause no casualties.


I understand the bombing the invasion hex. The only supply there is in the units themselves, bombing would raise disruption and increase supply consumption hopefully diminishing his attacks.

So maybe you are right. Heck, I dunno.

However, the only way I think I could have held was flying in troops to Kushiro on the first day the invasion moved south. I didn't. Nor did anyone recommend that I do so. Instead I reinforced the island, and simply moved 2/3rd of a division there.

Such is the fortunes of war.

Now it is to dealing with the current situation, making the Allies pay as high a cost as possible, and to hold on to what I can in Hokkaido.

I kind of feel sorry for you Lok, since you are already facing Kamis against MM, and he supersized his squadrons. My goodness, how that would have changed the battle here.




< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/24/2015 6:29:10 PM >

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Post #: 4737
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 6:13:20 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, Kushiro was the key to everything. Eventually you will find out how close were the Allies to failure had everything been singularly focussed.

Alfred


With near enough a 4:1 advantage in raw AV (to say nothing of firepower, troop quality and armor), Lowpe could have bombed and bombarded with all his might and thrown planes and ships wholesale into the meat grinder and the Allies would have still taken the base. Yes, they'd probably have some pretty damaged and disrupted units, but the base would fly the Stars and Bars.

In going for the ships, Lowpe has gained the VP's. Those are VP's that need to be made back by the Allies before they can declare victory.

For every in-game situation there's a perfect counter, in theory. Sadly the realities of PBEM play mean that putting theory into practice is far from easy.


+1


I disagree. Bombing the beaches made sense to me. Great that there's VPs now from the ships, but... just bombing out Sapporo will make those points back for him several times over. You really need to pay attention to land combats to see the effects of disruption, but it's there. Even if your bombs cause no casualties.



With three US Divisions, plus tanks, it would take a hell of a lot of bombers to drive disruption up to the point that it could overcome a 4:1 advantage in raw AV. Perhaps you could do it if there was no opposition in the air.

Otherwise, between Allied bombing and bombardment efforts and the disparity in troops, there was little chance Japan could have held on to the base.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4738
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 6:57:35 PM   
Mike McCreery


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Status: offline 		Once the allies get their teeth in it is very hard to dislodge them. He will have to risk quite a lot for an amphibious assault on the west side of the island.

Right now your best defense is the rough/jungle hexes between the eastern beaches of Hokkaido and Sapporo but at this point the game is over.

He can have a level 9 base within fighter distance of Japan within a month.

_____________________________


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Post #: 4739
RE: Unorthodox - 5/24/2015 11:07:19 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		While prospects are poor, I would not throw in the towel yet. How many men can you get on the island how fast?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Once the allies get their teeth in it is very hard to dislodge them. He will have to risk quite a lot for an amphibious assault on the west side of the island.

Right now your best defense is the rough/jungle hexes between the eastern beaches of Hokkaido and Sapporo but at this point the game is over.

He can have a level 9 base within fighter distance of Japan within a month.



_____________________________

Andy M

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Post #: 4740
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