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RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 1:24:36 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Mind you, I think he had the full KB though.

Which would be a big help!


He did have a few advantages, and some disadvantages too.

He was scen 2, I am 1.

He conquered most of India-- And got the industry from that. However, he also wanted to keep it. He was involved in vicious fighting in Solomons, me in Indochina. He never got Chungking, I did.

I have access to naval pilots for Kamikazes.

I have the A6M5c in numbers, he didn't. He did get the Frank A 2 months before me, but without big production.

I have the Myojo.

We both lost Yamoto to torpedo launching destroyers.

I have 5 million supply, he had 7 million.

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Post #: 4801
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 1:44:52 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I used tracker, devices to sort on DP guns, then the pool history tab to get the units that have those guns, and from this exercise I identified 27 mobile CD gun units.

All but one is away from the HI. Sigh. Almost all of them have to come back. In fact is there any reason not to bring them all back? Priority is to get them on clear terrain bases within Allied fighter coverage.

Do you think he will go after Luzon for example? I don't, but I am always wrong.

Other random thoughts:

Seattle is probably the closest shipyards I think for the Allies to use. Subs off that might accomplish something.

I have goodly supply still at Saipan, Truk, Paramushiro and it might make a good base for long range Kamikaze attacks. Nells? Emily -- very expensive. Patsy would be ideal, but alas not to be. Float planes -- Norm. Might hit from some unexpected spots with them.



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Post #: 4802
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 1:51:32 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Seattle is probably the closest shipyards I think for the Allies to use. Subs off that might accomplish something.


I would send some Glen equipped subs to investigate Adak. Potential size 7 port and with all those ARDs the Americans produce. I team up an AR to each of the large ones. So, he could repair just about anything there (or Dutch with her size 6 port). Only if the ARDs get overloaded, would he send ships/subs back to Seattle or San Fran bay shipyards.

_____________________________


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Post #: 4803
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 1:55:31 PM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		Remember also Radar vs GreyJoy game was played before LBA coordination was "fixed" so behind all those heavy plane loses You should see much more allied ships sunk.

Last turns You only manage to sunk/damage few CVE. If this was played under old patch You will sunk few times more ships.

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

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Post #: 4804
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 1:59:09 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Seattle is probably the closest shipyards I think for the Allies to use. Subs off that might accomplish something.


I would send some Glen equipped subs to investigate Adak. Potential size 7 port and with all those ARDs the Americans produce. I team up an AR to each of the large ones. So, he could repair just about anything there (or Dutch with her size 6 port). Only if the ARDs get overloaded, would he send ships/subs back to Seattle or San Fran bay shipyards.


Very useful info from the dark side! Many thanks.

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Post #: 4805
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 2:00:53 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Remember also Radar vs GreyJoy game was played before LBA coordination was "fixed" so behind all those heavy plane loses You should see much more allied ships sunk.

Last turns You only manage to sunk/damage few CVE. If this was played under old patch You will sunk few times more ships.



Yes, it is quite something to see the huge coordinated raids.

BTW, the game ended after Radar's last strike sinking the Deathstar. Large CAP involving thousands of planes had some kind of bug.

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 4806
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 4:05:10 PM   
Lowpe


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Emilys attack two CVE during the night and miss. Enemy night fighters present, but no losses.

Bad weather, and no planes fly on either side, except for a half dozen bombers. Three months until the big AA reinforcements. Too bad they don't trigger on the first strategic bombing attack much like the depot divisions.

The Allies make clear they are going to target my manpower, as the first manpower strike goes in today. A6M5c and Ki100-I are my primary day time defense and Nicks D and Irving Sa for night time defense. Jacks will protect Ominato for now. I don't have enough Jacks.

Well, I think I will put a huge strike together for tomorrow, I will surely lose 600 planes, but I only have to get thru 400 fighters and I can sweep. With a little luck, I can hurt him as he reinforces Kushiro, unless of course his big convoy is headed towards Bihoro, which it might.

Shikotan falls. 6 different bombardment forces hit it.






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Post #: 4807
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 4:21:19 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		The first night fighter killed by one of my bombers. No Emilys were lost, but damaged, yes.




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Post #: 4808
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 4:55:01 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The first night fighter killed by one of my bombers. No Emilys were lost, but damaged, yes.






must be the first fighter kill of a Japanese aircraft that isn't a fighter itself that I have ever seen. Have you seen the Emily actually doing damage (followed by the nightfighter turning back due to damage) or instantly taking down the enemy fighter during the replay?

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Post #: 4809
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 5:04:31 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		He had a dozen night corsairs flying...

This one spiraled away on fire I believe. It has happened before, but never got the credit kill to the pilot. So it is the second F4U dash whatever I have killed in A2A.

Maybe a Betty squadron got the other, those things bristle with 20mm cannons.

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Post #: 4810
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 5:08:51 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Pondering the turn.

The Weather has been bad...

I will probably never have a better chance at inflicting damage on the Allies at Kushiro...however I shudder when I think of the pilot losses.

I am thinking of putting crappy recruits into all the escorting fighters. They die anyway at a huge clip. Or is this a really bad idea?

I will be able to sweep before so I have a much better chance of penetrating his expect 400 plane fighter CAP.

So far I converted one squadron of Judies to Kamikazes for the raid. Have two more to choose.

It would be a 1000 fighter, 1000 bomber raid. Probably more.

Any advice?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/26/2015 6:10:01 PM >

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Post #: 4811
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 5:35:25 PM   
pws1225

 

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quote:

It would be a 1000 fighter, 1000 bomber raid. Probably more.


I have no advice to offer having never gotten this far into the war, but I am pulling for a dramatic victory for the Empire.

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Post #: 4812
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 6:30:03 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Pondered the turn for a while.

After he took Tinian, and I staged a big attack on a big CAP, my bombers still got decimated. The sweeps (Georges) went in and were up high (41K) and the combat was really short, and several CAP fighters were shot down, but it did little to weaken the CAP that was flying much lower. Consequently those planes got nailed, and good.

It seems if I throw everything at him again, I will lose 600 planes in return for maybe some more CVEs. He will lose 50 or so fighters. Not a good trade in my opinion. Now there is the hope that the moon and stars align and I get a very good coordination and really deal death to the Allies, but what are the odds of that?

Now, with the arrival of Kamikazes, why not try a very high strike well escorted along with the requisite high altitude sweeps?

How good is Allied radar and flight control...would they see waves of high altitude fighters and bombers coming in and scramble everything that high and neglect lower coverage? Or is it simply game mechanics...the Georges might clear the high altitude CAP and then pretty much clear sailing for the high level kamis to swoop down?

It seems to me this is worth trying.

Here is one way to become a double ace....shooting down Allied floatplanes on search.




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Post #: 4813
RE: Unorthodox - 5/26/2015 10:57:32 PM   
MrKane


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Status: offline 		Generally I think that at this stage of war only fast single engine bombers or kamikaze are able to penetrate allied CAP.

Sending bombers against huge CAP it is always very expensive trade, especially playing Japan. Personally I prefer different approach and I have already tested it against GreyJoy. Well method is simple: sweep, sweep and more sweep. He will leave area when he run out of fighters :D However watching yours combat reports I believe my fighters pilots where little better quality than yours or GreyJoys's pilots were less experienced than yours opponent. This is just my 2 cents to the topic.

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Post #: 4814
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 12:33:21 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Generally I think that at this stage of war only fast single engine bombers or kamikaze are able to penetrate allied CAP.

Sending bombers against huge CAP it is always very expensive trade, especially playing Japan. Personally I prefer different approach and I have already tested it against GreyJoy. Well method is simple: sweep, sweep and more sweep. He will leave area when he run out of fighters :D However watching yours combat reports I believe my fighters pilots where little better quality than yours or GreyJoys's pilots were less experienced than yours opponent. This is just my 2 cents to the topic.



As good as your pilots and tactics may have been, I think your R n D and the 2nd best maneuver band HR were the winning factors there.

It's tough to sweep Spit VIII/P-47s with mid-war stuff. It wouldn't have worked without the Ki-84r, K-83, Shinden and Ki-94.

Worth a try, but you need some late 45 era planes to really make that work.




< Message edited by obvert -- 5/27/2015 1:47:29 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 4815
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 2:31:41 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Yep, Mr. Kane, I can remember GreyJoy complaining bitterly about your fighters! Sadly no Shindens for me. Have to make do with what I have!

Instead of sending a huge raid in and losing 600 bombers, I am trying for a huge sweep. In addition two sentai of 72 Oscars with rookie (i.e. green, i.e. fresh) pilots are going to try to get their act together and escort in a Kamikaze strike of one Sentai of Judy at 32K. I don't see how these guys can attack first, just by sheer dint of numbers some sweepers have to go in first...well, it will be interesting.

Have to devote more planes to protecting the HI industry, a job for A6M5cs and Jacks, but pretty much everyone is flying since I suspect the Allies will try for a larger bomb run. As I understand it, ramming bombers doesn't really start until 45.

Then the Deathstar is within striking range of HI industry too.

What more good news can I share...just another day in the life of a seriously shafted Empire. So far none of my barges ferrying troops over to Hokkaido have been intercepted. Heck, he is probably glad to have them, as he can guard me with less troops than I tie up of him, depleting the HI strength even more.

Still trying night naval attacks.

Frantically shipping everything back to the HI. I thought I was doing it before, but now anything that can carry troops is doing it and even those that can't. Good news is a slug of heavy art and tanks is on trains to Changsha (half way there), and then a quick march down the super highway, back on trains to Fusan, then on ships to Shimoneski, then back on trains to all over. Quite a trip.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 3:35:35 AM >

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Post #: 4816
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 2:49:13 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		So, I was pondering the Allies next major move, and obviously invading Honshu. Sure, he will bomb the manpower. Sure, he will raid with fletcher destroyers. Maybe he will use the Deathstar to attack the industry or ports. But his next really big move with a 1,000 ships will be the invasion of Honshu.

He doesn't need to take all of Hokkaido to do that. He has enough.

So, I figure I have got 60 days. Less, if fresh troops have already prepped for it.

Well, I will have 5 fleet carriers then, if none get sunk between now and then.

I should have a bunch of Kamikazes. But the deathstar has shown it can beat off a 1500 plane raid, and in two months he may be stronger. So that leaves it up to the groundpounders, and forts. Japan's last chance.

Continuing the trend in this game, I get two full Divisions in 60 Days. The sad thing is one full division spawns in Hokkaido at a base I have no chance of owning then, unless the Allies don't push for the rest of the island, and it seems like they are pushing. So back in the cue for that division, and will spawn after the war is over.

If I can last 90 days, then I will have a total for 4 fresh divisions, and maybe even get lucky with the Hokkaido division spawning in Tokyo. In addition I will get 10 Brigades, but some of those will are for China...plus I can hopefully get 4-5 divisions back from the their outposts across the world and buy out a division a month including the 3rd Tank Division.

So, I guess the Allies will really push the speed on invading Honshu.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 3:57:02 AM >

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Post #: 4817
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 2:50:06 AM   
MrKane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Yep, Mr. Kane, I can remember GreyJoy complaining bitterly about your fighters! Sadly no Shindens for me. Have to make do with what I have!



Guys, it seems that Mr GreyJoy clearly overreacted in his AAR. I won war with Frank(R) Ki-44-IIc and due HR 2nd band altitude limit. But anyway you are in clearly in better position to judge your abilities.

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Post #: 4818
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 2:59:58 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Yep, Mr. Kane, I can remember GreyJoy complaining bitterly about your fighters! Sadly no Shindens for me. Have to make do with what I have!



Guys, it seems that Mr GreyJoy clearly overreacted in his AAR. I won war with Frank(R) Ki-44-IIc and due HR 2nd band altitude limit. But anyway you are in clearly in better position to judge your abilities.


You are probably right! He did mention that he never could get air superiority the entire game. So that part is true, but I remember him complaining about Shindens too! He was trying to figure out how much you had to devote to get them so early.

You played a masterful game there.

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Post #: 4819
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 3:41:34 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I think I forgot to mention that when Shikotan fell, I had managed to fly out splinters of all the defenders so as to avoid having to buy troops back with precious PP.

So there are 5 or so open ground hexes available for the Allies to land on pretty easily if they don't get Hakodate, I will cover each with 2 divisions, a base force for with DP guns, and artillery, plus lots of engineers building forts. They have forts 3 now. More troops there as they become available.

I need some kind of reserve on rail cars ready to react at a moments notice.

I need to protect every base in the HI from para landing.

I need to protect the industry/plane production everywhere too.

I have to watch out for long range port strikes.

So many things to consider...

However, if the weather clears, perhaps my sweeps can work just because of overwhelming numbers. I really am curious to see if the high Kami strike can go in. I would trade 100 planes right now for 1 or 2 CVEs. I guess that is asking too much out of 27 Judys.

For bomber defense, I set altitude between 10-13K, with settings of 40 percent on, 10 percent rest, and range 2. Pretty much every base has a squadron (all the smaller ones) with several of the important centers have 2 or more. Lots of A6M5c on this duty, as well as Jack (since production hasn't ramped up enough for them to fight his fighters (plus it is five hexes to Kushiro). I also put back any fighter squadron with poor morale (mostly Oscars) but they have a setting of 30 CAP/ 20 Rest. I also have a couple of really small George squadrons (9 planes each) and they are doing industry protection too.

I thought about putting some planes on LRCAP, but that to me seems to simply raise fatigue.

I got to thinking how the Lightnings have been quiet for two weeks or so, so there is probably a full strength squadron somewhere...so long range sweeps past 10 hexes are likely on the HI. So ultimately, that will mean I need to devote some high altitude George squadron to industry defense too.

I really, really need more radar sets. And more AA. Well, more everthing.



Here are some tips for you AFB Fanboys that are thinking about emulating this strategy. Bring paratroops and hit all the bases that have airplane factories in it. You might get lucky and find one without any troops or just 0 AV units. Especially the interior ones. You don't care if they die...right?

Target either plane factories or manpower. I think I would tend to target the plane and engine factories first. And always use your P47s to sweep.

But on the other hand, I don't think you will find an opponent so wholly unprepared for this move like I was. I thought he would either consolidate the Marianas, go for Luzon or go for Bonins.

Thinking back he did telegraph the move: Bombardments and bombing of Saipan tailed off pretty quickly signalling a lack of interest in taking the base. Shipping fell away in the Marianas. The Aluetians were built to the max; while Darwin still isn't even improved. Hokkaido wasn't the weakest area for him to attack, he could have landed on Luzon. From Luzon he could strangle all fuel and oil shipments back and that was what I was expecting. Wouldn't have been able to stop it either.

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Post #: 4820
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 3:54:59 AM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Any chance you can shuttle the Manchuria army to Hakodate/Sapporo/Muroran? Or forces from Honshu to Muroran, and Manchuria forces to Honshu?

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Post #: 4821
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 4:53:10 AM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Generally I think that at this stage of war only fast single engine bombers or kamikaze are able to penetrate allied CAP.



Similar experience. 1E planes have much better results.


_____________________________

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Post #: 4822
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 10:55:03 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Jan 22, 1944

During the night Allied destroyers bombard Honshu at Ustonomyia and an xak is sunk by a Yank sub.

During the morning the fighters start sweeping Kushiro...CAP is built up and now the Lightnings are here too.

And after a few sweeps (most set at 36K), the Judys arrive. Look at those darn rookies in the Oscars, what formation, but can they penetrate the CAP. Plenty of warning for the Allies...




What a fearsome CAP!

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 11:55:44 AM >

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Post #: 4823
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 10:57:56 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Banzai

For the Emperor...we hit two CVEs once. Both get flight penetrating flight deck hits, but don't trigger heavy fires or heavy damage messages.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 12:15:15 PM >

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Post #: 4824
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:00:47 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Nice work! See. Its not all misery!

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Post #: 4825
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:14:49 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		And that really is the turn...no bombing of Honshu. Although that will come.

Normal bombardments in my favor in Indochina, normal heavy bombing of my troops there by the Allies.

Planes losses are 94-46; factor out the 26 Judy losses and 7 Dinah losses doing recon over the base and the fighter ratio isn't that horrendous.

F4F-4 -- that is a plane from April of 43.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 12:16:17 PM >

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Post #: 4826
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:28:45 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I heard sinking sounds during the turn, and naturally assumed it was my cargo ship that had a torpedo after 2nd bell; but she lives.

It must have been an Allied sub...one shows up as sunk. He didn't suffer any losses for me to believe something happened to a CVE.




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Post #: 4827
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:31:17 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Subs sink with a "blubb blubb blubb" sound. Not the same as a surface ship.

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Post #: 4828
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:33:57 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Here is what is left of the Kamikaze unit. They took a morale hit...they should be jumping for joy. What is wrong with them?




Technically it was a mistake converting this squadron, since it removes in July, but will I even see July?

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/27/2015 12:34:33 PM >

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Post #: 4829
RE: Unorthodox - 5/27/2015 11:35:40 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Subs sink with a "blubb blubb blubb" sound. Not the same as a surface ship.


Can you describe a surface ship sinking? "gurgle, gurgle, gurgle". lol.

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Post #: 4830
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