Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Allied 4e bombers need about a week of rest following two days of action. Especially, if the range starts to get up there.

Add in, he is probably moving BFs and other support units closer to the front to give him max coverage of Honshu.

If he plans to invade Honshu, those four most northern bases will be subject to massive 2e bomber attacks in the days ahead. How many troops are you planning to leave up there??

If I was your opponent, I would be working on capture of a few more bases in Kurile to secure my LOC with USA while troops prep for those two bases in northern Honshu that are in clear terrain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Here's the problem. The Kuriles, if started early, can be a very strong defensive area. Requires completely built up airfields and forts, but it is still vulnerable and very close to Alaska and other bases. Relatively short supply lines. This doesn't include Marcus from being a staging point. Wake and Marcus are both very difficult to stop. Even with level 9 forts on both, they are too far from interlocking air bases. I wonder if Marcus alone can be enough to start a Hokkaido campaign.

Are you playing with stacking limits? That would have made a difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have been experimenting with my air strikes a lot. A lot of my experiments fail, but so what?

Normally I set the escorts to the same altitude of the bombers, but I have been playing with how much can I fly higher, and what does this do to time to engagement time, etc.

In the latest attack, a squadron of Frances flew at 30K, Franks at 33K and two sentai of Georges at 41K. Unfortunately for me, the Franks, which were close to the Frances in altitude didn't fly (weather was poor over target, and their morale wasn't 99).

The local CAP engaged the Georges for mere moments, and then was past them and into the Frances. Even though my poor Frances pilots took it on the chin, I thought this was a great outcome. I found it fascinating that the Georges, flying 10K over the Frances, were able to coordinate for the raid, and also pretty neat that the CAP was able to swoop in and nail the Frances with only minimal interference from the Georges.

So now I am wondering what the effect of a layered escort would be like. Bombers set for 15K, for example, and four Sentai of fighters set for 15, 16, 17, 18? Here the thought is the swooping CAP will have to go thru layers of escorts before reaching the bombers.

In addition, I have tested having the escorts at 2k and 3k over the bombers, and they seem to perform very well with nothing out of the ordinary with flight coordination happening. This might in fact be the optimal strike package setting, but I am looking forward to layering the escorts.

Of course I am not being hideously scientific doing these experiments, but I find them fun and rewarding.

I find the entire plane/combat model to be very fascinating game within a game. There are so many gray areas where you need to think about what happened and watch the combat replay to infer what is happening. Tactics that worked yesterday, might not work tomorrow as there are so many variables.

Simply fascinating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

... It doesn't take many B24Js to be devastating when bombing at 5K in this case I think it was 9 (and I managed to bring one down prior to release)...

• the unit failed the experience/leadership/morale test
  
• insufficient aviation support at the launching airfield
  
• an over stacked airfield
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have been experimenting with my air strikes a lot. A lot of my experiments fail, but so what?

Normally I set the escorts to the same altitude of the bombers, but I have been playing with how much can I fly higher, and what does this do to time to engagement time, etc.

In the latest attack, a squadron of Frances flew at 30K, Franks at 33K and two sentai of Georges at 41K. Unfortunately for me, the Franks, which were close to the Frances in altitude didn't fly (weather was poor over target, and their morale wasn't 99).

The local CAP engaged the Georges for mere moments, and then was past them and into the Frances. Even though my poor Frances pilots took it on the chin, I thought this was a great outcome. I found it fascinating that the Georges, flying 10K over the Frances, were able to coordinate for the raid, and also pretty neat that the CAP was able to swoop in and nail the Frances with only minimal interference from the Georges.

So now I am wondering what the effect of a layered escort would be like. Bombers set for 15K, for example, and four Sentai of fighters set for 15, 16, 17, 18? Here the thought is the swooping CAP will have to go thru layers of escorts before reaching the bombers.

In addition, I have tested having the escorts at 2k and 3k over the bombers, and they seem to perform very well with nothing out of the ordinary with flight coordination happening. This might in fact be the optimal strike package setting, but I am looking forward to layering the escorts.

Of course I am not being hideously scientific doing these experiments, but I find them fun and rewarding.

I find the entire plane/combat model to be very fascinating game within a game. There are so many gray areas where you need to think about what happened and watch the combat replay to infer what is happening. Tactics that worked yesterday, might not work tomorrow as there are so many variables.

Simply fascinating.

Don't know if you have previously seen this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3308618&mpage=1&key=cooperation�

but I think you might derive value from my post where I differentiate between coordination and cooperation. Definitely read the linked thread I provided. That link has a lengthy discussion from LoBaron (and don't overlook his post #42 in the link) on coordination. When it comes to aircraft issues you can't do better than pay close attention to his posts. Unless of course one of the air team devs themselves chip in.

Technically there is no layering of escorts for coordination. Unless the escort is assigned the exact same altitude as that assigned for the bomber, there is no trigger in the code for the coordination checks and outcome to occur. At best you can then only look forward to cooperation. What is taken into account for the latter is raised in the two threads.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

... It doesn't take many B24Js to be devastating when bombing at 5K in this case I think it was 9 (and I managed to bring one down prior to release)...

If you are getting many of the "beasties" flying in packets of only 9 airframes, that could mean one of the following circumstances exist

• the unit failed the experience/leadership/morale test
  
• insufficient aviation support at the launching airfield
  
• an over stacked airfield
  

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

I'm not convinced it is optimal play to continue stalking the DeathStar.  But if you must do so, you need to slow it down on its majestic circumnavigation cruise.  There is only one way of possibly achieving that.  You need a bait to make it react towards the bait.  It is a high risk ploy, but then so is burning through so many kamikazes and their cooperating conventional escorts/conventional units.

The bait must be positioned so that the DeathStar, when it reacts, retraces its steps back towards where it was the previous turn.  Only a carrier can serve as a bait otherwise the reaction code will not come into play.  The bait has to appear to be an easy kill to have any chance of overcoming the zero reaction orders which the Allied carriers are probably under.

Behind the bait must lie the KB (with maximum reaction range) and LBA.

This is the bait plan you need to consider.

1.  Use an expendable carrier as bait.
2.  If you have carrier trained kamikaze air units (especially if you have kamikaze fighters which can operate from the bait), this is the time to use them on the bait.
3.  Sail the bait into the wake of the DeathStar Task Force.
4.  Hope the bait auto identifies itself to the DeathStar.  Best achieved by launching an auto strike at the DeathStar (this is where the kamikazes come into play) from within 2-4 hexes in its wake (see page 129 of the manual).
5.  DeathStar takes the bait and both moves back towards the bait and launches an alpha strike against the bait.
6.  The KB has been trailing the bait by 4-5 hexes and it in turns reacts to the reacting DeathStar (again read page 129 of the manual).  This becomes a bit like the naval version of the land pursuit mechanic employed by LCUs on reserve mode after enemy LCU have been successfully evicted from their hex.
7.  Net result is that either that same day the KB is within range to launch against a depleted sortied DeathStar or is close enough that you can issue orders to close in the next day at flank to launch against the depleted DeathStar.
8.  With luck the DeathStar ends its reaction also within range of Japanese LBA.
9.  If you are really lucky the DeathStar also stops the next day to refuel from its accompanying Oilers and they in turn become targets for the KB/LBA kamikazes.

As I said very high risk.  Almost guaranteed to lose the bait but in 1944, when underway fleet replenishment is not yet available to the Allies, and when the majestic circumnavigation cruise which has terrorised your Chinese ports has already burned through sorties and fuel, it is a gamble worth considering.  See if you can pull it off better than Ozawa did in real life.

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Pleased that you keep on pointing out how well your layered CAP/low level Cap does against his stratospheric Jug sweeps.

For years posters keep on saying one must only sweep at the highest possible altitude level and that the only appropriate response is to follow suit in an ever escalating upward spiral.  Whereas LoBaron and myself have equally but invariably not been listened to, stated that layered CAP is the answer.  Defenders see the sweepers getting the initial dive and want one for themselves too hence why they agitate for getting above the sweepers ab initio, always forgetting that sweepers when they dive are then in turn vulnerable to a dive from the defenders.

...

Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Lessons I probably learned from you guys. It works better when two Sentai are very low, but unfortunately he picked a base to sweep that had just one Sentai and no CAP wandered over, probably due to the 2 minute warning. I still need lots more radar on Honshu

WITPQS -- on your 4E raid over Tokyo, Japanese CAP was at 15k, you swept way up high and the fight was probably over very quickly. Try sweeping closer to the altitude your bombers are going in at, I think you will have better results (the lightnings will fight more enemy fighters, making it easier for your bombers). Just a hunch...I would have posted it in your AAR, but I don't want my opponent seeing it. I like it when he sweeps super high before bombers come in...

PS: I have noticed that the Allies pretty much sweep trying to catch bleeders, or weak CAP bases, and avoid anything with more than 100 fighters unless it is a big raid where they throw everything at one base.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I didn't sweep over Tokyo, though, because my fighters can't reach there! I've tried some sweeps at lower altitudes and the results have not been encouraging (for the sweepers, not commenting on the bombers). The P-38 is not so good against the best Japanese fighters and - I think - need all the help they can get. The sweep was to try and keep fighters from aiding Tokyo and to draw some from Tokyo.

I have not done any study of sweeper altitudes, so this is fairly much in ignorance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav


Not that anything game changing was discussed (or really anything at all), in the interest of full disclosure, I do read this AAR daily. It is one of my simple joys. While I am pretty sure witpqs knows this and would not go into any details of our game, I just wanted to make sure everyone is aware and did not go into too many details.

I agree layered CAP is the answer to high level sweeps. I also think keeping your planes within their best maneuver bands helps to mitigate the dive. It is one advantage you have in many cases. As the Japanese, I know I will lose planes. I have to plan accordingly.

I am not a fan of any 4E raid. They should all be set to ASW patrol protecting the West Coast and the Panama Canal. Seriously, while I hate to encourage witpqs, I think the 4Es have been very effective against my ground troops. The raids raise fatigue and disruption as well as flip their move mode. 2Es can do this as well but the 4Es add extra punch.

Wa