Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

I may be missing something here but how much supply is used when re-arming? Is it the same as the ‘rearm cost’?  If so, than an AE or other tender would get drained of its supply fairly quick.  I assume that both rearming a ship and drawing supply from the local port both cost OpPoints so I suppose a balance has to be met when rearming the big boys. I guess another question is how many OpPoints does it cost to rearm? How quickly can you load supply at the various base levels?
 
Thanks, this is good stuff
 
Bart

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

There’s a table in the manual. Looks like this. Top row is the native Port Rearm value, by port size. 1st column is the weapon, 2nd column is the rearm cost. Please note ONLY SOME weapons will be included. For the rest, please think a bit and interpolate.

Next columns are whether a port of given size can do the deed (y) or, if not, how many Naval Support squads you have to have to rearm that weapon. Last column is what kinds of tenders are appropriate to rearm that weapon (presuming, of course, that the tender has “capacity” equal to or greater than the weapon rearm cost.

Port-7 can do just about anything. Port-6 begins to have hefty NavSup requirements for BB guns. Smaller ports can handle smaller guns. Naval Support squads are very important. Tenders are very important. Your Base Forces are now highly useful (and fragile) and making up an efficient fleet train becomes mandatory

This is just a sample – it just shows SOME guns, SOME torps and sorties. DCs, mines, etc.. work the same way. No warranty, things might have to be adjusted, but this is pretty close.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

There’s a table in the manual. Looks like this. Top row is the native Port Rearm value, by port size. 1st column is the weapon, 2nd column is the rearm cost. Please note ONLY SOME weapons will be included. For the rest, please think a bit and interpolate.

Next columns are whether a port of given size can do the deed (y) or, if not, how many Naval Support squads you have to have to rearm that weapon. Last column is what kinds of tenders are appropriate to rearm that weapon (presuming, of course, that the tender has “capacity” equal to or greater than the weapon rearm cost.
Port-7 can do just about anything. Port-6 begins to have hefty NavSup requirements for BB guns. Smaller ports can handle smaller guns. Naval Support squads are very important. Tenders are very important. Your Base Forces are now highly useful (and fragile) and making up an efficient fleet train becomes mandatory

This is just a sample – it just shows SOME guns, SOME torps and sorties. DCs, mines, etc.. work the same way. No warranty, things might have to be adjusted, but this is pretty close.

This whole port size vs reloads cost doesn't make much sense!

Torpedoes should be limited at the production/supply level not by cost vs. port size. If you can load/unload 15-30 ton tanks (M5, M3, M4 Allied), 7-8 ton (Type 95, Type 98 Japanese). I just don’t see the issue with torpedoes, 12 inch shells (850 lbs), or 16 inch shells (2050 lbs) based on the size of ports.

If you get unlimited 500, 1000, 2000 lbs bombs for bombers without restrictions, why put limits just on ships? Wouldn't it be better to model ammo & fuel bunkers, where the size of bunkers limits the number/type of reloads, then the cost is in building & resupplying the bunkers. Fuel bunker empty ships can't refuel, planes don't fly, Ammo bunker empty, planes can't reload, ships can't rearm. This would put limits on both ship and aircraft ops, you could even limit bomb reload types (250,500,1000,2000 lbs) & shell reload sizes (AAA, 3in, 4in, 6in, 8in, etc.) based on bunker size & supply level, something to consider for what ever comes next.

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Ok; then 15/42 Mk1, with a reload cost of 3876 – so it would cost 2 supply per unit of re-load – have I got that right? 

quote:


Number or units needed depends entirely on the capacity of the Magazine minus the current stock in that Magazine. Add in the various other calibers the ship would need to load – lets say that the ship needs to load 600 supply to restock its magazines to capacity - how many OpPoints would that consume (600?)? Would the AE/AKE and the BB both use the OpPoints? (Assuming they are in a small port).  If it was the 16/45 at a cost of 4480 would the fractions be kept or dropped (i.e. would this take 3 supply per unit of re-load -a 50% increase or just slightly more over the cost of replen where things are rounded once)

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Is there a chart, which describes the Port load rates – i.e. how many supply a size 3 port can load onto a ship (say the same AE/AKE) per turn?

quote:


 
I am trying to understand how big of a support organization would need to be to support a forward deployed TF – should I deploy my AE/AKE at a ratio of 1/1 for every forward deployed BB for instance? Is an AE better than an AKE in this respect or are the only advantages of the AE in the realm of survivability and late war ‘at-sea’ replenishment for the USN? Are there guidlines in the manual such as - 1xAD can normaly support X # of DDs forward deployed.
 
I know I'm getting into the weeds here but ....
 
Thanks
 
Bart

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

This whole port size vs reloads cost doesn't make much sense!

quote:



Torpedoes should be limited at the production/supply level not by cost vs. port size. If you can load/unload 15-30 ton tanks (M5, M3, M4 Allied), 7-8 ton (Type 95, Type 98 Japanese). I just don’t see the issue with torpedoes, 12 inch shells (850 lbs), or 16 inch shells (2050 lbs) based on the size of ports.

If you get unlimited 500, 1000, 2000 lbs bombs for bombers without restrictions, why put limits just on ships? Wouldn't it be better to model ammo & fuel bunkers, where the size of bunkers limits the number/type of reloads, then the cost is in building & resupplying the bunkers. Fuel bunker empty ships can't refuel, planes don't fly, Ammo bunker empty, planes can't reload, ships can't rearm. This would put limits on both ship and aircraft ops, you could even limit bomb reload types (250,500,1000,2000 lbs) & shell reload sizes (AAA, 3in, 4in, 6in, 8in, etc.) based on bunker size & supply level, something to consider for what ever comes next.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Hmmm...as I understand it, reload cost does not change with port size. Number is amount of Naval Support Squads one needs to be able rearm in that size of port. Cost is same. See the bold part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I think the minimum port size represents the facilities present to rearm the ships, e.g. sufficient dock space, adequate crane capacity, etc. You probably can't reload 16" shells from a DUKW or a small lighter pulling up next to the BB out in the lagoon. You need dock space for the BB and a dockside crane (Port>6), specialty equipment moved into a smaller port (Port=<6 plus Naval Support) and/or an large enough ammo ship (AKE or AE of sufficient capacity which would include the necessary cranes).

Anyway, that's how I interpret what has been said.

Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I see on the chart that the smaller guns can be reloaded from an AG*. Am I to assume that this is not the AG we currently have in game, but rather a small lighter or tender that will be in our ports? Basically, the AG tag is no longer just a transport barge?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
I see on the chart that the smaller guns can be reloaded from an AG*. Am I to assume that this is not the AG we currently have in game, but rather a small lighter or tender that will be in our ports? Basically, the AG tag is no longer just a transport barge?

AG never was the correct designation for a barge. In AE:

AG = Misc Auxiliary = base ship (small warship tender).
LB = Landing Barge

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
I see on the chart that the smaller guns can be reloaded from an AG*. Am I to assume that this is not the AG we currently have in game, but rather a small lighter or tender that will be in our ports? Basically, the AG tag is no longer just a transport barge?

AG never was the correct designation for a barge. In AE:

AG = Misc Auxiliary = base ship (small warship tender).
LB = Landing Barge

And also, it's not so much that an AG can rearm a small gun, it's that small guns are on small ships that AGs can rearm. As far as tenders go, everything depends on the ship "type".

AS: May rearm and assist repair of submarines only.
AD: May rearm and assist repair of DDs or any Small Escort types only.
AGP: May rearm and assist repair of PT and other Small Craft only.
AG: May rearm and assist repair of Small Escort and Small Craft only.

Definition of Small Escort: DE, APD, DMS, DM, AVD, E, TB, KV, PF, PB, PC, SC, AM, ML
Definition of Small Craft: PB, PC, SC, AM, ML, HDML, MGB, YP, YMS, AMc

And yes, this is all in the manual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Your basic Yamato consumes about 300 tons.

Yamato, IMO the best looking Battleship.

"Hey, a packet of googly eyes! I'm so taking these." Hank Venture

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

But with each rearm, the “capacity” counter decrements. At a Base, no worries, but with a “tender”, as soon as the “capacity” counter drops below a weapon threshold, the tender can’t rearm any more of that weapon. It can rearm smaller (less costly) weapons, but it is presumed that it’s exhausted its magazines of big, nasty stuff, and just has a stock of this & that left.

• Select it/them;
  
• Create a temporary TF with it (or them);
  
• Click 'Replenish' (and consume Op points);
  
• Disband back into the base.
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

But with each rearm, the “capacity” counter decrements. At a Base, no worries, but with a “tender”, as soon as the “capacity” counter drops below a weapon threshold, the tender can’t rearm any more of that weapon. It can rearm smaller (less costly) weapons, but it is presumed that it’s exhausted its magazines of big, nasty stuff, and just has a stock of this & that left.

I'm still unclear about something though: If there's plentiful supply at said base, will the tender *automatically* refill or do you have to:

• Select it/them;
  
• Create a temporary TF with it (or them);
  
• Click 'Replenish' (and consume Op points);
  
• Disband back into the base.
  

Steve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

....As to Kinesaki/Sunosaki (and Ashizuri), the way ship classes are defined only allows them to have a single “type”. As such, we made these AOs. That means that although they have a “cargo capacity”, they can’t function as a surface ship tender. It’s only one, or t’other – can’t be both (or either). I know it was different IRL, but we just can’t put that degree of graininess into the code; especially for such a very limited number of ships.

Sigh. Ciao. John

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Ian, great to see you. Are you on terra firma or still asea?

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Ian, great to see you. Are you on terra firma or still asea?

Currently residing in the People's Republic of California. Shore Duty, and looking toward retirement...