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RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/16/2015 6:41:07 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I didn't say that well, Joc. I know you know all these things. What I mean to say is this: ward off the feeling that you have to do something or ought to be doing something now. Be very careful with your carriers.


Ah, no need to apologize.

Yeah, I already lost Lex and can ill afford another one! Any amphib operation (if any) will be far away from KB. An SOPAC operation sounds interesting for many reasons right now.

Low risk with a good chance of forcing Japan to quickly start to reinforce taking troops intended for other use. Besides Jeff seems to finally have taken an interest down here. I also have pretty much everything already down here although I´m short on fuel and proper bases. In a large part much can be done down there under LBA even with a KB presence.

Besides, Jeff seems to really have taken an interest down here lately!


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1411
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/16/2015 7:13:32 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		SOPAC + KB
______________________________________________________________________________

Still going south and KB is there as expected. Still not replenished his fighters...if this is a landing its an odd one. While Noumea isn´t an aerodrome its still a level 4 AF. Same with Suva.

With KB this low on fighters it will be tough providing cover for a landing as well as maintaining CAP. He knows my CVs are down here. I´m actually within strike range of KB right now if I decide to move in.

Lets see how Jeff plays this.










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Post #: 1412
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/16/2015 7:22:13 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'll eat a tomato if he has less than 350 fighters (and I don't like tomatoes).

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Post #: 1413
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/16/2015 7:42:59 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'll eat a tomato if he has less than 350 fighters (and I don't like tomatoes).




I think its pretty accurate. He lost around 80-120 fighters over Brisbane not too long ago and I´m not sure he have had time to replenish yet. He would have to go all the way back to Rabaul to do that.

55 is probably a bit too optimistic but if he has over 100 I would be surprised (unless he has replenished).

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Post #: 1414
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/16/2015 9:39:05 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'll eat a tomato if he has less than 350 fighters (and I don't like tomatoes).




I think its pretty accurate. He lost around 80-120 fighters over Brisbane not too long ago and I´m not sure he have had time to replenish yet. He would have to go all the way back to Rabaul to do that.

55 is probably a bit too optimistic but if he has over 100 I would be surprised (unless he has replenished).


At this time of the war.... 250 bombers means about 6 big decks. So, the original KB.

There's just no way they have less than 10 planes per fighter squadron. If this scenario keeps other things from Scen 2, then they resized to 27 on July 1 (from 18) and are resize capable to anything he wants after that. I don't think you have full DL here, or if you do it is somehow undercounting fighters (65 auxiliary? seems really high...even with a CS in there).

The DB/TB squadrons likewise resize slightly on July 1 to make room for the fighters, but it's still about a 2:1 ratio.

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Post #: 1415
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 12:00:49 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Depending on what CVs are present, their fighter groups are 21, 24, or 27 planes. As a general rule of thumb, I use 25 per CV as estimate. CVL/CVEs are 18 or 21. So, KB could have 8 CVs as Junyo and Hiyo should be completed.

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Post #: 1416
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:18:16 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Depending on what CVs are present, their fighter groups are 21, 24, or 27 planes. As a general rule of thumb, I use 25 per CV as estimate. CVL/CVEs are 18 or 21. So, KB could have 8 CVs as Junyo and Hiyo should be completed.


I forget what the game date is. Isn't it July? That's a bit of a squeeze for the second of Junyo/Hiyo, unless they were accelerated, as it doesn't arrive until late May on normal schedule.

I thought the original six KB CVs all resized to 27? I know Akagi, Kaga, Shokaku, and Zuikaku all should...

Still, what stands out to me is the 65 auxiliary. Some of those have got to actually be fighters.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1417
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:30:53 PM   
richlove


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Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
...

Still, what stands out to me is the 65 auxiliary. Some of those have got to actually be fighters.


Don't damaged aircraft show up as auxiliary? Did I make that up?

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Post #: 1418
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:43:27 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
...

Still, what stands out to me is the 65 auxiliary. Some of those have got to actually be fighters.


Don't damaged aircraft show up as auxiliary? Did I make that up?

I never heard that.

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Post #: 1419
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:49:37 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Depending on what CVs are present, their fighter groups are 21, 24, or 27 planes. As a general rule of thumb, I use 25 per CV as estimate. CVL/CVEs are 18 or 21. So, KB could have 8 CVs as Junyo and Hiyo should be completed.


I forget what the game date is. Isn't it July? That's a bit of a squeeze for the second of Junyo/Hiyo, unless they were accelerated, as it doesn't arrive until late May on normal schedule.

I thought the original six KB CVs all resized to 27? I know Akagi, Kaga, Shokaku, and Zuikaku all should...

Still, what stands out to me is the 65 auxiliary. Some of those have got to actually be fighters.


What if he hasn´t converted the CSs? Wasn´t too long ago (a month or so) when a sub encountered one of them.

PS. I´ll be the first to admit I´m wrong from time to time . Just got this in the same turn!

quote:

Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Tulagi
Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Coal Harbour


I hate being wrong!

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1420
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:51:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Just don't be wrong about the number of fighters with the KB.

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Post #: 1421
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:53:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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______________________________________________________________________________

He didn´t move this turn. Refueling of waiting for something?




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Post #: 1422
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:54:24 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Tulagi
Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Coal Harbour


I hate being wrong!


It's not beyond the realm of possibility. I have a pic of the Zuikaku here...



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Post #: 1423
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:54:57 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
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Status: offline 		ah yes





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Post #: 1424
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 3:56:16 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
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Status: offline 		And the rest of KB





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Post #: 1425
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 4:02:17 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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Status: offline 		I like your theory better then me being wrong!

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Post #: 1426
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/17/2015 6:28:41 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Depending on what CVs are present, their fighter groups are 21, 24, or 27 planes. As a general rule of thumb, I use 25 per CV as estimate. CVL/CVEs are 18 or 21. So, KB could have 8 CVs as Junyo and Hiyo should be completed.


I forget what the game date is. Isn't it July? That's a bit of a squeeze for the second of Junyo/Hiyo, unless they were accelerated, as it doesn't arrive until late May on normal schedule.

I thought the original six KB CVs all resized to 27? I know Akagi, Kaga, Shokaku, and Zuikaku all should...

Still, what stands out to me is the 65 auxiliary. Some of those have got to actually be fighters.


What if he hasn´t converted the CSs? Wasn´t too long ago (a month or so) when a sub encountered one of them.

PS. I´ll be the first to admit I´m wrong from time to time . Just got this in the same turn!

quote:

Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Tulagi
Coastwatcher Report: CV Zuikaku reported in port at Coal Harbour


I hate being wrong!


The CS ships can't convert until 11/1/1942, so no chance there yet. Here's a nugget for you also: if he does decide to convert them, you can sometimes tell with coastwatchers. If converted (or in the process) the coastwatchers might report "CVL Chitose in port", while if not converted it will still say "CS Chitose in port"... I think . I think you can also use this to tell you which ships have been built. I don't think I started getting reports on ships like CL Oyodo, etc., until they'd arrived from the queue. When I noticed the CVL vs. CS thing on the coastwatcher reports, I formed the assumption that the coastwatchers pull an actual ship name out of the active ships list at random (or perhaps weighted random). I could be totally wrong as this is entirely circumstantial, so take it with a shaker of salt.


Even if he hasn't converted the CS ships, there would need to be 3 of them there to give you that kind of auxiliary number. Chitose and Chiyoda are capacity 24, and Mizuho/Nisshin are capacity 20. Cruisers/BBs carry 3-4 each... so unless he has ~8 CAs/BBs in that TF plus 2 CS's, then it's greatly overreporting the number of auxiliary planes there.

I suppose it's possible that he has more than 3 CS in that TF, but why would you ever do that? Including just 1 of them is plenty, and 2 is borderline overkill.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1427
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 1:42:03 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ah yes





Ensign Sulu finally got his promotion and his own starship! About time!

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Post #: 1428
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 1:44:25 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Aren't the seaplanes in a TF, including those on CSs, counted as auxiliaries rather than fighters or bombers? A Jake on a cruiser does not differ from a Jake on a CS.

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Post #: 1429
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 7:40:30 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Aren't the seaplanes in a TF, including those on CSs, counted as auxiliaries rather than fighters or bombers? A Jake on a cruiser does not differ from a Jake on a CS.


Exactly, but 65 of them in one TF would require at least 2 CS to be present, which is possible, but would also require a high number of other ships carrying FPs in the same TF. I just don't think Lowpe has a KB running around with 6 CVs (required to get the bomber numbers that high), 2 CS, and 8 CAs plus other escorts . I think the fighter/auxiliary numbers have to be wrong. Fog of war!

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Post #: 1430
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 10:05:16 AM   
lkulka

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/29/2013
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Reconqere Midway or any other islands on Central Pacyfic.
No many asstes should be assigned, but Jap will force to back their CV.
:)

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Post #: 1431
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 1:10:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Aren't the seaplanes in a TF, including those on CSs, counted as auxiliaries rather than fighters or bombers? A Jake on a cruiser does not differ from a Jake on a CS.


Exactly, but 65 of them in one TF would require at least 2 CS to be present, which is possible, but would also require a high number of other ships carrying FPs in the same TF. I just don't think Lowpe has a KB running around with 6 CVs (required to get the bomber numbers that high), 2 CS, and 8 CAs plus other escorts . I think the fighter/auxiliary numbers have to be wrong. Fog of war!

Now I understand what you were saying. Do your calculations of KB's aircraft capacity include the 10% overstack (sans penalty)?

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Post #: 1432
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 3:21:32 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Aren't the seaplanes in a TF, including those on CSs, counted as auxiliaries rather than fighters or bombers? A Jake on a cruiser does not differ from a Jake on a CS.


Exactly, but 65 of them in one TF would require at least 2 CS to be present, which is possible, but would also require a high number of other ships carrying FPs in the same TF. I just don't think Lowpe has a KB running around with 6 CVs (required to get the bomber numbers that high), 2 CS, and 8 CAs plus other escorts . I think the fighter/auxiliary numbers have to be wrong. Fog of war!

Now I understand what you were saying. Do your calculations of KB's aircraft capacity include the 10% overstack (sans penalty)?


My "calculations" were ballpark estimates. 230-250 bombers says 6 CVs to me (~40 per deck at ~22-27 DB / ~18-22 TB). It's possible there are only 5.

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Post #: 1433
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 4:10:51 PM   
poodlebrain

 

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Status: offline 		It may have something to do with the establishment of the base adjacent to Koumac. Could the LCU be paratroopers trying to establish a quick beachhead on New Caledonia to allow a non-contested landing? All it would take is one squad dropped from a Mavis/Emily on an appropriate target hex, but it looks like you have that covered.

Maybe you have thrown a monkey wrench into his plans, and he is altering his plans. The question then becomes how are the plans being altered, and what can you do about it?

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Post #: 1434
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 5:08:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Sorry for the lack of response and short updates lately. Its been a madhouse this week as we leave town on Sunday. Had to get everything ready at work for a 20 day vacation.

I´ll try to find some time to a proper update tomorrow.


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Post #: 1435
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 9:55:56 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Don't damaged aircraft show up as auxiliary? Did I make that up?


Spot on. As well as A/C undergoing maintenance.

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Post #: 1436
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 10:37:00 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Don't damaged aircraft show up as auxiliary? Did I make that up?


Spot on. As well as A/C undergoing maintenance.


Ooo...

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 1437
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/18/2015 11:49:48 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Don't damaged aircraft show up as auxiliary? Did I make that up?


Spot on. As well as A/C undergoing maintenance.


Ooo...


I didn't know that.


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The Moose

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Post #: 1438
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/19/2015 5:31:39 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		July 30th 1942
______________________________________________________________________________

This is probably the last update before I leave tomorrow. Turns has been slow due to Christmas preparations but we managed one per day despite that.

Focus have shifted at least temporarily to SOPAC where we begin the report.


------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
Not really sure how to describe what is happening here as I don´t really understand it. Japan is obviously doing something down here but its not making any sense.

After hovering around Luganville for 3 days a FT TF suddenly drops troops on Efafe. These are clearly not prepped for the target and if I had some more troops in place this landing would have been doomed.

quote:

Amphibious Assault at Efate (120,154)

TF 40 troops unloading over beach at Efate, 120,154

Japanese ground losses:
277 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


I only have a Australian commando unit at the base (to prevent rowboat capture). Despite level 3 forts and good terrain the proceeding bombardment by CA Kako, CA Furutaka, CA Kinugasa, CA Aoba, CA Chokai, CA Maya devastate the commandos. So Jeff will get the base tomorrow. During this KB still hovers around Luganville. I don´t get this move. He has already established a base at Belep Island. Why take Efafe too?

I was pondering moving my CVs up under the Noumea CAP but decided against it. This Japanese expedition is so far of no consequence and doesn´t warrant Allied intervention. I´ll move my subs in (they have covered Noumea and LaFoa) but the fleet will stay back for now.

This OP really has me confused. I don´t understand the "why?".




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Post #: 1439
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 12/19/2015 6:18:16 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		India
______________________________________________________________________________

Things have been relatively quiet here since Jeff evacuated Asansol. My troops are resting there now until I decide what to do next. I´ve pretty much decided already but want to iron out the details. I will be pushing and try to keep Jeff from regaining balance.

In the North we punish a RTA division and a part of the 18th ID after two days of fighting.

quote:

Ground combat at Gorakhpur (54,26)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7699 troops, 21 guns, 254 vehicles, Assault Value = 354

Defending force 6994 troops, 75 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 255

Allied adjusted assault: 306

Japanese adjusted defense: 112

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Gorakhpur !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2407 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 77 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 34 (27 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 83 (77 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Units retreated 4

Allied ground losses:
372 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 19 (2 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
255th Armoured Brigade
44th Indian Brigade
45th Indian Brigade

Defending units:
18th/C Division
14th Tank Regiment
3rd RTA/A Division
35th Field AA Battalion


This gives me 26 lovely VPs.

2nd British ID have now unpacked at Calcutta. More reinforcements will land tomorrow in the form of the 1st Marines, 2 Tank battalion and 2 TD battalions. The Tank battalion only have Stuarts but the TDs are Wolverines. They are seriously bad news for any Japanese tanks.

I´m still very confident in India. Jeff have moved in more troops to Chattagong over the last 4 days. Sadly I didn´t have anything besides subs to intervene with. Judging by recon its another division and some AA/Arty units. So a solid breakfast for the 1st Marines!

Here is a screen. Had to stand down most recon to rest so it doesn´t really say much.




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