Slitherine

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Over time I have lessened my use of CV air to ASW as the DL they offer the enemy is as bad or worse than the sub-finding they (may) do. If I use them I usually restrict to 1 hex in transits.

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ORIGINAL: tiemanj

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Over time I have lessened my use of CV air to ASW as the DL they offer the enemy is as bad or worse than the sub-finding they (may) do. If I use them I usually restrict to 1 hex in transits.

The manual is quite explicit on the sequence of events in a turn. (skipping the irrelevant steps) first is the night move phase, then night search, than day move, than am search, than pm search.

So all those CV a/c are useless for ASW work if you are moving at cruise speed or faster.
A typical CVTF will go about 5 hexes/ phase. TBFs have a max range of 8 I think withoit DTs (can't look right now - the game date is too early for DTs on TBFs I think as well). ASW divides the range by 2. A sub between 5 -10 hexes won't be seen and can attack without previous detection. A sub at 4 hexes is at the edge of your range.

I don't like it either, but ASW sourced from a moving platform is useless for protection. A thousand TBFs wouldn't make a difference here because they don't do anything until after you move.

ASW is for offensive operations against subs, not defensive ones.

Boost your search. A lot. Especially once you get DTs and you can search out past where you will next move. Use a lot of night search too. My personal experience disagrees with Loki... I see subs all the time with search alone. I even get plenty of attacks and claimed hits on them. The amount of A/C I dedicate to search dwarfs yours, and a lot of it is at night. Of course it is easier in '44 to dedicate more search...but it is also easier if you stop wasting airframes (and pilot training) on ASW.
Which is one more point...what skill level is your navs? It is hard to get pilots trained up to 70 Navs plus asw (plus navt and or navb)

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ORIGINAL: MrKane

Personally I am using directed forward night search to anti-subs protection. Sub hunting is different story. Actually the best results I am getting with dive bombers used at mass. Standard is 50% ASW 50% SEARCH for each squadron on each carrier. In case of USN carriers it gives 41 planes looking for subs around for each flattop. Result is usually clean ocean in 1 or 2 turn with 2 - 5 sunk all other heading port to fix damage.

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You can never get all pilots cross trained in four skills, but for my KB TB pilots about 3/4 have 70 in naval bombing, search, TT and ASW to at least 60. I train them in LBA forward areas areas when not in use, where the rear areas train newbies to 70 TT and 70 search. It all depends too on how many groups you want to commit to training. Some don't train to 50EXP but only go to 40 and let them "earn" the EXP. KB pilots tough are usually 70-85EXP with a few in the 60s.

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I know myself enough to know I get hit with these motivational downs from time to time.

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ORIGINAL: tiemanj

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Over time I have lessened my use of CV air to ASW as the DL they offer the enemy is as bad or worse than the sub-finding they (may) do. If I use them I usually restrict to 1 hex in transits.

The manual is quite explicit on the sequence of events in a turn. (skipping the irrelevant steps) first is the night move phase, then night search, than day move, than am search, than pm search.

So all those CV a/c are useless for ASW work if you are moving at cruise speed or faster.
A typical CVTF will go about 5 hexes/ phase. TBFs have a max range of 8 I think withoit DTs (can't look right now - the game date is too early for DTs on TBFs I think as well). ASW divides the range by 2. A sub between 5 -10 hexes won't be seen and can attack without previous detection. A sub at 4 hexes is at the edge of your range.

I don't like it either, but ASW sourced from a moving platform is useless for protection. A thousand TBFs wouldn't make a difference here because they don't do anything until after you move.

ASW is for offensive operations against subs, not defensive ones.

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Which would be a nice theory if the move was done in a chunk. It isn't. It's done hex-by-hex with attack checks in each hex. So if I get a 10/10 on a sub on PM search, it's probably still there on my next, first-hex move toward it. And my ASW ships know that. Granted, no help on today's turn. But I can look over the hedge at tomorrow's first hex. Or next four hexes if I want to expose myself.

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Also, the main reason to me to not search is because a human brain, not code, is seeing the DL imposed on the sub by my planes at whatever portion of the turn they fly. And that human brain who owns that sub knows there a platform of some kind that saw it. If it's in a location where LBA search is impossible or unlikely, and Allied subs carry no Glens, most likely it's mobile air ASW. Which that human files away and plans around for tomorrow

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ORIGINAL: tiemanj

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Which would be a nice theory if the move was done in a chunk. It isn't. It's done hex-by-hex with attack checks in each hex. So if I get a 10/10 on a sub on PM search, it's probably still there on my next, first-hex move toward it. And my ASW ships know that. Granted, no help on today's turn. But I can look over the hedge at tomorrow's first hex. Or next four hexes if I want to expose myself.

true, perhaps I overstated. Yes, you will "see" subs in the next 4 hexes, and can act accordingly. The manual does state that "prior detection of the sub" influences the probability of an attack (so I assume that means the sub TFs MDL, as DL resets to 0 prior to the naval move phase), so it isn't "worthless" from a game point of view either (your escorts "know" he is there). My point was though, that just having TBFs out searching / ASWing doesn't buy you a bubble of protection. They are not factored into "escorts" in any way. Once you outrun the "search" they did on the previous turn, they are not providing any protection. In this case we don't know how far Wasp traveled prior to getting attacked, so we don't know if it is relevant in this particular case. Most CVTFs can move 10 hexes in a turn, but ASW can be out to a max of 4 (with that 4th hex being extended range).
Also, if he just left port in the last turn (for example, exiting Sydney (or Pearl, west coast, whatever in other cases) - most of us set up the search functions and leave port. If this is the case, that search never flew, and was a complete non factor (no matter how many were set)

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Also, the main reason to me to not search is because a human brain, not code, is seeing the DL imposed on the sub by my planes at whatever portion of the turn they fly. And that human brain who owns that sub knows there a platform of some kind that saw it. If it's in a location where LBA search is impossible or unlikely, and Allied subs carry no Glens, most likely it's mobile air ASW. Which that human files away and plans around for tomorrow

I fully agree with you here, but I think it is outside the scope of what I was originally saying. Yes, the implications of getting a search A/C spotted could be huge (or you may not care, depending on the game situation).

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ORIGINAL: tiemanj

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Which would be a nice theory if the move was done in a chunk. It isn't. It's done hex-by-hex with attack checks in each hex. So if I get a 10/10 on a sub on PM search, it's probably still there on my next, first-hex move toward it. And my ASW ships know that. Granted, no help on today's turn. But I can look over the hedge at tomorrow's first hex. Or next four hexes if I want to expose myself.

true, perhaps I overstated. Yes, you will "see" subs in the next 4 hexes, and can act accordingly. The manual does state that "prior detection of the sub" influences the probability of an attack (so I assume that means the sub TFs MDL, as DL resets to 0 prior to the naval move phase), so it isn't "worthless" from a game point of view either (your escorts "know" he is there). My point was though, that just having TBFs out searching / ASWing doesn't buy you a bubble of protection. They are not factored into "escorts" in any way. Once you outrun the "search" they did on the previous turn, they are not providing any protection. In this case we don't know how far Wasp traveled prior to getting attacked, so we don't know if it is relevant in this particular case. Most CVTFs can move 10 hexes in a turn, but ASW can be out to a max of 4 (with that 4th hex being extended range).
Also, if he just left port in the last turn (for example, exiting Sydney (or Pearl, west coast, whatever in other cases) - most of us set up the search functions and leave port. If this is the case, that search never flew, and was a complete non factor (no matter how many were set)

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Also, the main reason to me to not search is because a human brain, not code, is seeing the DL imposed on the sub by my planes at whatever portion of the turn they fly. And that human brain who owns that sub knows there a platform of some kind that saw it. If it's in a location where LBA search is impossible or unlikely, and Allied subs carry no Glens, most likely it's mobile air ASW. Which that human files away and plans around for tomorrow

I fully agree with you here, but I think it is outside the scope of what I was originally saying. Yes, the implications of getting a search A/C spotted could be huge (or you may not care, depending on the game situation).

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ORIGINAL: 4eyedoracle

I had to come out of hiding just to try to prevent you from quitting your AAR. I´ve followed your AARs since 2-3 years now, always a good read. I would hate to see it stop.

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I think MDL is the key, and I confess I have never quite understood how it's baked into next turns. Without it, naval search in all cases is pretty worthless, except night search for day attacks. And night search is weak tea.

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If what you say is correct, then what is the purpose, or point, of a CV Escort TF? The area of prosecution for such a TF must move with the TF in order for the TF and mission to make any sense.

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Ground combat at Chittagong (55,41)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 74406 troops, 1275 guns, 1233 vehicles, Assault Value = 2427

Defending force 59144 troops, 798 guns, 396 vehicles, Assault Value = 1680

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 1669

Japanese adjusted defense: 1699

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender:
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2094 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 142 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 54 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 40 (7 destroyed, 33 disabled)
Vehicles lost 49 (6 destroyed, 43 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
3317 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 332 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 54 disabled
Guns lost 84 (5 destroyed, 79 disabled)
Vehicles lost 48 (2 destroyed, 46 disabled)

Assaulting units:
1st Marine Division
2nd British Division
255th Armoured Brigade
18th British Division
7th Armoured Brigade
70th British Division
26th Indian Division
2/1st Med Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
48th Light AA Regiment
25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
2/11th Field Regiment
4th Field Artillery Battalion
IV Indian Corps
95th Heavy AA Regiment
6th Heavy AA Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
21st Light AA Regiment
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
56th Division
2nd Tank Regiment
5th Division
38th Division
4th Guards Division
18th/C Division
21st Ind.AA Gun Co
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
36th Field AA Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Bn /5
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th AA Regiment
302nd Ship Eng Coy
2nd Mortar Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st RF Gun Bn /1
16th AA Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Shipping
21st Air Defense AA Regiment
3rd Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
25th Air Flotilla /4

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ORIGINAL: obvert

Wonder why he's staying so long there with such low forts. In that terrain it doesn't make sense, really. Better to move back along the Arakan, farther from your air and naval power and better defensive terrain.

Your LCUs must be getting some god exp too, which I know is needed for the Commonwealth ones.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Keep posting, Jocke! Having paired AARs is a real treat for readers. There usually aren't very many, especially in which both players post in detail.

Glad to have you posting again. :)

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ORIGINAL: BillBrown

You should never let Real Life get in the way of your gaming.

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ORIGINAL: savelius2

World of tanks? I figured Warships would be more this games cup of tea. I played the hell out of tanks but mostly do ships now.