RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now?

Page: << < prev 70 71 [72] 73 74 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 9:39:48 PM

wings7

Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

warspite1

Not sure what is accessible in other parts of the world, but this 3-part series is currently showing on 'More 4' part of the UK's Channel 4.

You Brits (all Europeans, really) get all the good stuff...I found this on YouTube, is this it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCClBdXJ5cg

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2131

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 9:41:22 PM

wings7

Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

And 'Gefreiter' could be translated into 'Lance corporal'.

Orm, if I may respectfully ask, according to whom?

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2132

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 9:44:04 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

warspite1

Not sure what is accessible in other parts of the world, but this 3-part series is currently showing on 'More 4' part of the UK's Channel 4.

You Brits (all Europeans, really) get all the good stuff...I found this on YouTube, is this it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCClBdXJ5cg

warspite1

No 'fraid not. No idea if this link works for you guys but here is episode 2.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/hitler-the-rise-and-fall/on-demand/62477-002

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to wings7)

Post #: 2133

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 9:51:05 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

And 'Gefreiter' could be translated into 'Lance corporal'.

Orm, if I may respectfully ask, according to whom?

Cut from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefreiter

Throughout the periods of the Royal Prussian Army, Imperial Army of the German Empire, Reichswehr and the German Wehrmacht, the rank of Gefreiter was considered in English the equivalent to a British Army Lance Corporal rank

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to wings7)

Post #: 2134

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 9:57:22 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

And 'Gefreiter' could be translated into 'Lance corporal'.

Orm, if I may respectfully ask, according to whom?

Cut from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefreiter

Throughout the periods of the Royal Prussian Army, Imperial Army of the German Empire, Reichswehr and the German Wehrmacht, the rank of Gefreiter was considered in English the equivalent to a British Army Lance Corporal rank

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2016 9:59:13 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2135

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:05:13 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Never mind. I blame tiredness.

< Message edited by Orm -- 10/13/2016 10:24:53 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2136

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:07:37 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Regardless. If I understand it correctly. He was a regimental runner and thus he must have been reliable and brave. Otherwise they would have had him doing something else. I.E. a battalion runner.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2137

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:16:06 PM

wings7

Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hitler: The Rise and Fall

Three parter. The first one was surprisingly good - amazing how many photos of crowds in Vienna and elsewhere that they have found and identified Hitler in!

Also I never realised, but apparently he was never made a corporal. He was a Private First Class. Anyone else ever hear that?

Yes, according to Wikipedia he was a 'Gefreiter', a private or private first class...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Do you have a link or info to "Hitler: The Rise and Fall", it sounds like must see for a WWII buff.

And 'Gefreiter' could be translated into 'Lance corporal'.

Orm, if I may respectfully ask, according to whom?

Cut from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefreiter

Throughout the periods of the Royal Prussian Army, Imperial Army of the German Empire, Reichswehr and the German Wehrmacht, the rank of Gefreiter was considered in English the equivalent to a British Army Lance Corporal rank

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

In the US Army a NCO is Sargent, grades E-5 thru E-9. A Corporal would be an E-4, not a NCO (unless they changed it).

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2138

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:25:13 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Okay - just watched that part again and it said:

Newly discovered regimental documents show:

Hitler was promoted early in the war to Private First Class and never got another promotion. His seniors did not see any leadership qualities in Hitler and he remained a Private and was not made an NCO.

Apparently his job was rarely delivering messages to the front line or running from trench to trench. He was considered by his comrades to have a cushy number.

He did finally get his Iron Cross late in the war for delivering a dispatch under fire.

Intriguingly the person who did take the French prisoners - that Hitler took the credit for - was his Jewish officer Hugo Guttman, whose name was later written out of the story.....

It was all Nazi propaganda apparently.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to wings7)

Post #: 2139

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:28:35 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. So I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

< Message edited by Orm -- 10/13/2016 10:32:45 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2140

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:32:03 PM

MakeeLearn

Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

Last emperor of china ....documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LZAIg4yRQ

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2141

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:32:21 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

He was considered by his comrades to have a cushy number.

Of course it was 'cushy'. He slept at the HQ. That he had, from time to time, to run to the front line or from trench to trench and thereby risk his life didn't matter much. I rather suspect that a runner had one of the more dangerous positions in the regiment. Even a regimental runner.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2142

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:33:46 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. SO I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

warspite1

As I understood it a corporal is the lowest grade NCO.

No the point they are making I believe is that this man is not well thought of in the army - one promotion during the entire war and even that did not take him out of the private dept. The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. It was all Nazi propaganda - that is the point they are making.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2016 10:47:14 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2143

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:35:45 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

He was considered by his comrades to have a cushy number.

Of course it was 'cushy'. He slept at the HQ. That he had, from time to time, to run to the front line or from trench to trench and thereby risk his life didn't matter much. I rather suspect that a runner had one of the more dangerous positions in the regiment. Even a regimental runner.

warspite1

Well who knows, you may be right. But I would be very surprised - not to mention very disappointed - if the likes of Richard Overy and Saul David are putting their names to a load of sensationalist bilge.

I don't like using Wiki for this sort of thing but if this is correct, this would indicate that in the German army in WWI a corporal was an NCO.

A Gefreiter is a Lance-Corporal or enlisted rank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(German_Empire)#Enlisted_.28Mannschaften.2FGemeine.29_ranks

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2016 10:55:21 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2144

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:50:19 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. SO I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

warspite1

As I understood it a corporal is the lowest grade NCO. No the point they are making is that this man is not well thought of in the army - one promotion during the entire war and even that did not take him out of the private dept. The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. That is the point they are making.

It is as wings7 said. A NCO is a Sergeant (or maybe even higher) and below the officers in rank but above the enlisted men. A Corporal, on the other hand, is a promoted enlisted man.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2145

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:54:22 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. SO I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

warspite1

As I understood it a corporal is the lowest grade NCO.

No the point they are making I believe is that this man is not well thought of in the army - one promotion during the entire war and even that did not take him out of the private dept. The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. It was all Nazi propaganda - that is the point they are making.

If that is the point then I already think less of this program. I have no numbers. But I am guessing that only a few percent of the enlisted men, in the German Army, during WWI, made NCO. I suggest that 90-95% or something like that remained enlisted men during the war.

But I really like to see the 'proof' that he had such a safe job.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2146

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 10:59:26 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. SO I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

warspite1

As I understood it a corporal is the lowest grade NCO.

No the point they are making I believe is that this man is not well thought of in the army - one promotion during the entire war and even that did not take him out of the private dept. The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. It was all Nazi propaganda - that is the point they are making.

If that is the point then I already think less of this program. I have no numbers. But I am guessing that only a few percent of the enlisted men, in the German Army, during WWI, made NCO. I suggest that 90-95% or something like that remained enlisted men during the war.

But I really like to see the 'proof' that he had such a safe job.

warspite1

Maybe the Wiki site (I posted in 2144) is wrong then. I suspect that no job (except perhaps Lord Melchett's and Captain Darling's) in WWI were 'safe' and that is not what they are saying. They are saying that as jobs go it was a cushy one. That of course is relative.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2147

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:03:30 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

warspite1

The program made clear he was not a corporal and thus NOT a non-commissioned officer. Is Gefreiter an NCO I wonder?

Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer. Neither is a corporal. And I have never, ever, heard anyone claim that he was a NCO. SO I do not understand why the program is making a point out of it. Are they trying to say that it is tricky to translate grades between countries before attempts were made to standardize them? And even trickier with historical grades?

warspite1

As I understood it a corporal is the lowest grade NCO. No the point they are making is that this man is not well thought of in the army - one promotion during the entire war and even that did not take him out of the private dept. The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. That is the point they are making.

It is as wings7 said. A NCO is a Sergeant (or maybe even higher) and below the officers in rank but above the enlisted men. A Corporal, on the other hand, is a promoted enlisted man.

warspite1

But Hitler wasn't in the US Army

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2148

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:09:24 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

He was considered by his comrades to have a cushy number.

Of course it was 'cushy'. He slept at the HQ. That he had, from time to time, to run to the front line or from trench to trench and thereby risk his life didn't matter much. I rather suspect that a runner had one of the more dangerous positions in the regiment. Even a regimental runner.

warspite1

Well who knows, you may be right. But I would be very surprised - not to mention very disappointed - if the likes of Richard Overy and Saul David are putting their names to a load of sensationalist bilge.

I don't like using Wiki for this sort of thing but if this is correct, this would indicate that in the German army in WWI a corporal was an NCO.

A Gefreiter is a Lance-Corporal or enlisted rank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(German_Empire)#Enlisted_.28Mannschaften.2FGemeine.29_ranks

warspite1

Interestingly this site also states a Corporal in the German Army in WWI was an NCO position - although unlike Wiki they say a Lance Corporal was too

http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgrank.htm

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2149

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:15:38 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Yes. That is why I wonder why the program begun making a point about the NCO stuff. Or even the corporal stuff. Of course he wasn't a corporal. He was in the *censored* German Army and they didn't use the rank corporal.

I suspect that during the Nazi years it was 'popular' to show AH during WWI as positive as possible. And now it might very well be the opposite. Trying to show as negatively as possible.

Edit: What do you think about taking this discussion to a new thread?

< Message edited by Orm -- 10/13/2016 11:17:22 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2150

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:23:07 PM

MakeeLearn

Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

Hitler was a petty officer in the U.S. Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Patrick_Stuart-Houston

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 10/14/2016 12:33:59 PM >

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2151

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:27:34 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes. That is why I wonder why the program begun making a point about the NCO stuff. Or even the corporal stuff. Of course he wasn't a corporal. He was in the *censored* German Army and they didn't use the rank corporal.

warspite1

Because when talking about Hitler (or anyone) it is common to use ranks that mean something to the target audience. In the books I read growing up, I never once saw Napoleon referred to as the 'Little Caporal'

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2016 11:35:23 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2152

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:37:00 PM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

Because when talking about Hitler (or anyone) it is common to use ranks that mean something to the target audience.

Then I think Corporal gets as close as it can get. At least closer than using private, 1st class (I am almost considering it trickery to use private, 1st class).

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2153

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:41:03 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suspect that during the Nazi years it was 'popular' to show AH during WWI as positive as possible. And now it might very well be the opposite. Trying to show as negatively as possible.

warspite1

I've only seen one episode but I don't get the impression the program makers are simply trying to make him look bad (that needs no help or lies or exaggeration from anyone

) but they are trying to get to understanding how did such a 'nobody' end up running a country like Germany, not to mention having the country swear blind allegiance to him - regardless of the path he was taking them down.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2154

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/13/2016 11:46:14 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

Because when talking about Hitler (or anyone) it is common to use ranks that mean something to the target audience.

Then I think Corporal gets as close as it can get. At least closer than using private, 1st class (I am almost considering it trickery to use private, 1st class).

warspite1

Yes but that is not what the program makers are saying. If they are to be believed then this is not word games, the rank matters. If being a corporal (or equivalent) was not important to Hitler (i.e. it gave him nothing over and above his actual rank) then why make it up?

But from the program makers (and the historians) point of view if being a Private First Class is the same as a Corporal (or equivalent) then why even mention something that can be checked for factual accuracy (and make themselves look a bit amateurish in the process)?

As I say, I don't know enough about this - and three websites I've looked at all say different things. So for now, I will take the word of two well respected historians and assume that they are not playing word games - and outright lying - and take the view this is true (albeit can't wait to get it clarified from another source).

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2016 11:56:10 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 2155

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/14/2016 12:06:49 AM

MakeeLearn

Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suspect that during the Nazi years it was 'popular' to show AH during WWI as positive as possible. And now it might very well be the opposite. Trying to show as negatively as possible.

warspite1

I've only seen one episode but I don't get the impression the program makers are simply trying to make him look bad (that needs no help or lies or exaggeration from anyone ) but they are trying to get to understanding how did such a 'nobody' end up running a country like Germany, not to mention having the country swear blind allegiance to him - regardless of the path he was taking them down.

Looking at some of the royalty, generals and other high ranking people in history is rank, prestige or standing any guarantee.

Hitler was a millionaire and well known , due to Mein Kamp.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 10/14/2016 12:43:36 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2156

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/14/2016 2:44:03 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

quote:

warspite1 / No the point they are making I believe / The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. It was all Nazi propaganda - that is the point they are making.

Here is a photo of Hitler after the end of WWI. Notice the Iron Cross. Of course he could have purchased it or stolen it. I'm sure there is an official record. Wearing an Iron Cross without having earned it could have caused him difficulties in his political campaigns and with military leaders later on.

I think this casts doubt on those making these points/documentary as a whole.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2157

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/14/2016 6:25:15 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

quote:

warspite1 / No the point they are making I believe / The Iron Cross story is made up, the level of promotion is made up, he was never an NCO, and the danger involved in his role is made up. It was all Nazi propaganda - that is the point they are making.

Here is a photo of Hitler after the end of WWI. Notice the Iron Cross. Of course he could have purchased it or stolen it. I'm sure there is an official record. Wearing an Iron Cross without having earned it could have caused him difficulties in his political campaigns and with military leaders later on.

I think this casts doubt on those making these points/documentary as a whole.

warspite1

No. As per post 2139, the program makers are not saying he wore the Iron Cross without earning it. Adolf Hitler did win the Iron Cross for delivering a dispatch under heavy fire. They are saying the episode he supposedly won it for was actually won by a Jewish officer Hugo Guttman.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/14/2016 6:32:19 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)

Post #: 2158

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/14/2016 7:27:28 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

quote:

They are saying the episode he supposedly won it for was actually won by a Jewish officer Hugo Guttman.

I remember reading something some years ago in a British publication about some documents unearthed in a Bavarian library. The author did not present any actual documents (perhaps not feasible to do so by the publication within that article (space, etc...)), and it seemed to me the author had a lot of speculative conjecture about these documents.

Within the article it was mentioned his superior (Guttman I believe?) was the one who recommended the Iron Cross to Hitler. If Guttman won it, why would he recommend Hitler for it?

Oh, and I see its also mentioned at the wiki: "Military career of Adolph Hitler"

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 10/14/2016 7:38:32 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 2159

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 10/14/2016 7:42:00 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

quote:

They are saying the episode he supposedly won it for was actually won by a Jewish officer Hugo Guttman.

I remember reading something some years ago in a British publication about some documents unearthed in a Bavarian library. The author did not present any actual documents (perhaps not feasible to do so by the publication within that article (space, etc...)), and it seemed to me the author had a lot of speculative conjecture about these documents.

Within the article it was mentioned his superior (Guttman I believe?) was the one who recommended the Iron Cross to Hitler. If Guttman won it, why would he recommend Hitler for it?

Oh, and I see its also mentioned at the wiki: "Military career of Adolph Hitler"