RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 2:18:43 AM

Lokasenna

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Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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The squad change is historical. The IJA changed the structure of their squads - notice how the load cost drops from 19 to 17 as well. They reduced the number of men in the squads. Looked it up, or it came up on these forums, some time ago.

The flak updates aren't so much on the device stats IIRC, but the layout and so forth.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1171

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 4:35:25 AM

Alpha77

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Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The squad change is historical. The IJA changed the structure of their squads - notice how the load cost drops from 19 to 17 as well. They reduced the number of men in the squads. Looked it up, or it came up on these forums, some time ago.

The flak updates aren't so much on the device stats IIRC, but the layout and so forth.

Yes, it is probably historical. I was confused someone mentions IJA gets more AT in 43 squads, but that was probably a mod. So scen 1 should have the same downgrade of 43 squads then, right? I believe in the "babes" IJ motor squads are already better from the start and 43 they get 20 or so +AT. They should get a bit better, also in soft imho, IIRC they get a better LMG also in service. +10 AT and + 2 AS would be fair. This is not much compared to the Allied upgraded. I also doubt every British or Indian squad in this theater had a PIAT. Maybe not even in Europe. Apart from the fact PIAT was not really good (yes it got lucky hits on Tigers)

I guess in the "normal" last patch version game I play AA is pretty effective already, at least Allied one (as it should be). If Allied planes fly low even IJ gets the one or other lucky hit

Gotta check out the beta you guys talk about...

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 10/31/2016 4:37:03 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1172

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 8:15:33 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

March 23, 1944

OZ: Ok. So I didn't mention during the last post that I had seen two TFs hugging the OZ coast near Wessel Islands, reading as SCTFs. Each showed only two ships each. I had a bunch of recon planes and some Bettys doing search out here, but they obviously didn't catch everything, because today there is a flotilla that looks to be comprising most of the USN landing troops at Darwin!!

I had started putting units on alert and getting more search in the area, but it looks a turn too late to actually stop anything here. I also sent in a Three CA/DD TFs to intercept what I thought were bombardment TFs, and they did find something; two Iowa class BBs and their escorts!

That wasn't a positive outcome for the IJN, and the survivors were plastered in the day phase by the various CV/CVE TFs in the area.

So. Now for the good news. The TFS landed late thanks to the many PTS and subs at Darwin, and the KB with several solid SCTFs including a number of BBs and CAs were moving in near Ambon just in case. Have a look at the map below. It shows they're route for the 23rd. I'd like to invite a CV battle as judging from the last clash, we should be on somewhat even terms. The KB planes are rested and ready whereas the Allies did have strikes, including a lot of TT expenditure today. I'll also be able to support with a bunch of high quality LBA, including Franks, Georges and Jacks all LR CAPing the BB TFs.

I'm setting up near Taberfane aiming at a 7 hex strike to his CVs, or less if he moves out to shield from an 8 hex strike, which is what I'm expecting. That would mean we have LBA cover, extra strike planes from Dili, Ambon and Biak, and he has none. It also looks like much less than the full Death Star. I see air groups from the following CV/CVL in the Judy strike below.

Enterprise - VF-6 with F4U-1A
Saratoga - VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Hornet - VF-8 with F4U-1A
Essex - VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Lexington II - VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat

Princeton - VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Belleau Wood - VF-24 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Independence - VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Langley - VF-32 with F6F-3 Hellcat
Monterey - VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat

There are at least ten CVE groups here as well.

This is going to be interesting.

SUBS: Eight fast IJN subs lead the fleet and will try to intercept the Allied CVs before the battle.

Few USN subs in range but do spot two here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 22, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,123, Range 24,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 3
CA Maya, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
CA Nachi, Shell hits 6
DD Natsugumo, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yamagumo, Shell hits 1
DD Minegumo, Shell hits 2
DD Asagumo, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 3, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Iowa, Shell hits 7
BB New Jersey, Shell hits 3
DD Chauncey
DD Erben
DD Kimberly
DD Mullany, Shell hits 1
DD Stephen Potter
DD Saufley, Shell hits 1

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Darwin at 77,124, Range 30,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-552
MTB G-18

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon
CVE Chenango
CVE Suwannee
CVE Wake Island
CL Richmond
CL Trenton
DD Henley
DD Craven
DD Gridley
DD Maury
DD Porter
DD Clark

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Bathurst Island at 77,123

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 40
D4Y3 Judy x 27

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 43
F6F-3 Hellcat x 111

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 16 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 11 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Princeton

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4U-1A Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4U-1A Corsair (3 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-32 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-114 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-115 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 24
E13A1 Jake x 18
J2M3 Jack x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 42
FM-1 Wildcat x 27
F6F-3 Hellcat x 38

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 5 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 3 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
VF-35 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VF-37 with F4F-4 Wildcat (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
VF-60 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 28300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
VC(F)-63 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 12 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 38800.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
VC(F)-68 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VC(F)-92 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VOC(F)-1 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 38800.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
VC(F)-4 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 35500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Bathurst Island at 78,122

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 41
SBD-5 Dauntless x 62
TBF-1 Avenger x 17

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 5 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Nachi, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Minegumo

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Babar at 76,117

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
TBM-1C Avenger x 17

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Taiyu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Junpo Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAKL Kosho Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saumlaki at 78,117

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16
SBD-5 Dauntless x 31

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Akita Maru, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
xAKL Heiwa Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Tamozono Maru #1, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Japanese ground losses:
212 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 74,123

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 15
TBM-1C Avenger x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAKL Shinrei Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Nittatsu Maru

Japanese ground losses:
737 casualties reported
Squads: 26 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Bathurst Island at 78,122

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 29
F6F-3 Hellcat x 50
SBD-5 Dauntless x 30
TBF-1 Avenger x 16

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 3 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yamagumo
CA Nachi, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Minegumo

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Babar at 76,117

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 13
SBD-5 Dauntless x 31

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Kosho Maru, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
PB Chitose Maru, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 74,123

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 14
TBM-1C Avenger x 16

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Nittatsu Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
PB Kyo Maru #12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Japanese ground losses:
89 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Darwin (76,124)

TF 74 troops unloading over beach at Darwin, 76,124

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 69 (0 destroyed, 69 disabled)
Vehicles lost 103 (1 destroyed, 102 disabled)

Motorized Support lost in surf during unload of 2nd Medium Rgt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Darwin (76,124)

14 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB New Mexico
BB Idaho
DD Gansevoort
APA Wharton
APA Hunter Liggett
DD Warrington

Japanese ground losses:
550 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 30 (7 destroyed, 23 disabled)

BB New Mexico firing at 67th Naval Guard Unit
BB Idaho firing at 48th JNAF AF Unit
DD Gansevoort firing at 48th JNAF AF Unit
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Darwin (76,124)

TF 558 troops unloading over beach at Darwin, 76,124

Allied ground losses:
631 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 78 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 226 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 42 (0 destroyed, 42 disabled)

11 troops of a AIF Inf Section 43 lost in surf during unload of 1st Australian Div /2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The KB is in a perfect position for a strike supported by LBA both offensively and with added CAP of high quality first line fighters with 70-85 EXP pilots. I predict the USN CVs will stay in place here two hexes out of Darwin to ward off incursions while the CVEs protect the shipping directly. This split allows the LBA to play a potentially important role, as Darwin can be LR CAPed as well. I'll set LBA to only 9 hexes, to Darwin, to hit the CVEs and troop ships. The KB will attempt to tangle with the partial Death Star. Since it seems there are only 5-6 CVs and 5 CVL (plus whatever CVEs are in range) this is a manageable battle. I'm worried about he brittle IJN CVs getting hit and struggling to make it to Ambon, but in this case it's a risk worth taking. Fingers crossed!!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/31/2016 11:05:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1173

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 10:50:29 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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The following turn began with lots of night search based in Darwin and Groot Eylandt finding a shifting of Allied units. Some significant forces were moving down the coast of OZ, away from the main force at Darwin. Will the Allied CVs be closer than predicted, or out of range? Will this be only bombardment forces retiring and spread out strikes, limiting effectiveness against the CVs?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1174

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:01:06 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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The day phase starts with a lot of info gained from search. Scores of D3Y3 from the KB and other recon and search planes sort out where the Allied CVs and CVEs end up. I am surprised to find 4-5 search planes destroyed by CAP just off the Wessel Is. area, hugging the OZ coast. I try to count out the distance to the KB but can't work it out before the strikes of the day begin ...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1175

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:13:37 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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The Kates have first shot, flying at max range with bombs at 5k. The LR CAP at Darwin wears down some of the CVE CAP and the healthy escort gets the Kates through easily. CVEs burn, and the next round adds to the flames. They get 15 hits from 41 planes, or 37%. Pretty good from level bombing (of course two bombs per helps).

The Judys are at normal range with tanks and drop 500kg bombs onto the mess that is now the CVE TF here. From 23 planes 8 hits are successful on the three CVEs, or 35%. CAP is now only 9 FM-1.

Jills are in torpedo range and put the finishing touches on, also taking out an APA and getting 9 hits from 38 planes, 24%.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1176

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:27:09 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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After LBA the KB strikes go forward. I still don't know what our range difference is here, and seeing these go in first at least relaxes me that weather, distance, fragmentation and other factors haven't ruined the day for the IJN at least. The Allied CAP is tough, but not overwhelming, and the escort punch near 78 Judys (from 83) and about 50 Jills (from 75) into the flak zone. Allied AA at this stage is torturous, but 64 Judys and 40 Jills manage to drop ordnance. The hit rate is decent for DBs (33%) but not as good for the Jills (15%), in spite of high skill levels, but the results are still positive.

The CVEs take the brunt of the first strikes. There look to be four in this hex and all take significant damage, with Chenago sunk outright by 5 fish.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1177

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:29:57 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Of the CVs hit the Essex takes one torpedo with no extra damage reports while the Emperor Norton is stung by an ammo storage explosion from the one 500kg bomb that hits and penetrates the flight deck.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1178

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:37:09 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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A second strike from a smaller package also breaks through and gets a decisive two torpedoes into the Essex, making three total, plus a 500kg bomb. The Lexington also takes a fish.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/31/2016 11:45:46 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1179

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:46:02 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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By now in the replay I've counted out the hexes and learned that this is another 8 hex strike!!

Extreme luck here, as that wasn't what I'd wanted. The goal was not only to get strong cohesive strike with LBA and the KB but to let LBA fighters help blunt the Death Star strike packages, hopefully setting up for at least equal losses but a chance for an outright win on day two when the smaller number of USN CVs would be fighting damaged and compromised in foreign territory.

Still, this is good, and although it might not be the decisive battle I was hoping for, it could lead to significant Allied losses and corresponding delays to the schedule of advances.

My hopes increase in the afternoon phase as another massive strike appears on the screen heading for the Allied fleet. I wasn't expecting this at all , and just about start salivating on the keyboard from anticipation ...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1180

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 11:49:30 AM

obvert

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Out of the 180+ strike planes that make it through CAP a grand total of TWO hits are recorded!!

Allied FLAK is killer and absolutely decimates the strikes. I'll post numbers later, but this makes a day 2 slightly problematic, since the Allies have a full strike package on their remaining CVs and CVLs while the IJN is left with about 1/3 of the KB strike planes. I'll have to get very creative here!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1181

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 12:10:01 PM

obvert

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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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March 24, 1944

OZ: On the whole this is a Japanese win, of course, but it could have been much more devastating. At least this may mean that the game continues. Joseph was not impressed with losing to another 8 hex strike, but he did send the turn back.

On the day the Allies do get two beat up divisions landed at Darwin and loads of support troops and supply into the base. The Japanese lose 380+ airframes and a bunch of very good KB strike pilots, but lose no ships and sink at least 5-7 CVE, put he Essex in serious danger, and get hits that will most likely require yard time on two more CVs, the Lexington (Essex class) and the Emperor Norton (renamed Essex class).

I am concerned about a massive surface threat fro the Iowas and other TFs in the area for the 25th. They have all expended some ammo, but I know the CVs had fast BBs embedded and those could make a dash forward to wreak havoc on the KB and escorts. I've got two BB TFs supporting, one containing Yamato and four other IJN 25 knot BBs, the other the two remaining Kongo class BC. Should be enough to cushion a blow, but the Allies have a LOT more ships in range than we do. A three CA TF is also heading down from Ambon and should be able to hit the Darwin area to possibly intercept anything coming during the night, but intercepts are tricky.

I'll aim to fill CVs with LBA DB units, which should bring the strike package to 3/4 normal. The CAP and escort fighters are in fine shape, only having lost less than 20 total.

LBA will extend it's range to past Darwin and I'll try to get the non-cooperating groups to fly tomorrow LR from Biak, Ambon and other scattered bases. These are mostly 2E IJN torpedo bombers, all operating in normal range of course for TT use.

The KB will move four hexes toward Darwin onto the shallows (hopefully helping with subs) and will aim to contain remnants of he amphib TFs and other forces at Darwin while hedging against a surface move and following air strike by staying in LR CAP distance for the strong LBA nearby.

This is a fun part of the game, but certainly hard for the Allied player right now. It would be worse in my opinion if it had been a two way strike, but you never know. There are 250 of the best Japanese LBA on the map added additional CAP to the KB and I think that would have decimated Allied strikes, but we might have lost a CV or two as well, which certainly would have made Joseph feel better about the day.

Anyway, looking forward to Day 2!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR March 24, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on I/19th Naval Guard Unit, at 76,124 (Darwin)

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 7
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 12
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18
FM-1 Wildcat x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
341 Ku S-2 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 7 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 5 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 12 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 18000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 59
B5N2 Kate x 41

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 46

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Tulagi, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Trenton, Bomb hits 1
CVE White Plains, Bomb hits 1
APA La Salle, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Porter

Aircraft Attacking:
41 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-68 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
VC(F)-92 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 8 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VC(F)-4 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 5 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 35500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Tulagi
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Fanshaw Bay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 17
D4Y3 Judy x 25

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVE White Plains, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Tulagi, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Trenton

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
5 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-4 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 77 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-92 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 66 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Tulagi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 108 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 26
B6N2 Jill x 38
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Tulagi, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE White Plains, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Wayne
CL Trenton
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
APA La Salle, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
38 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VC(F)-92 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VC(F)-4 with FM-1 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Tulagi
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Fanshaw Bay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Gove at 82,126

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 100
A6M5c Zero x 28
A6M8 Zero x 14
B6N1 Jill x 26
B6N2 Jill x 49
D4Y3 Judy x 83
N1K1 Rex x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 73
FM-2 Wildcat x 36
F4U-1A Corsair x 73
F6F-3 Hellcat x 283

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 13 destroyed, 4 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 9 destroyed, 8 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 8 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Suwannee, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CVE Chenango, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CVE Natoma Bay, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Sangamon, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Wake Island, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB New Jersey
CV Essex, Torpedo hits 1
CLAA Oakland
DD Hughes
CL Leander
AKA Alchiba
CV Emperor Norton I., Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Lexington
DD Swanson, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CL Achilles, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Zeilin
APA Henderson, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Ammo storage explosion on CVE Chenango
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Sangamon
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Suwannee
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Chenango
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Natoma Bay
Fuel storage explosion on CVE Natoma Bay
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Chenango
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Wake Island
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Wake Island
Massive explosion on DD Swanson
Ammo storage explosion on CV Emperor Norton I.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Gove at 82,126

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 31
A6M5c Zero x 21
B6N2 Jill x 7
B6N2a Jill x 7
D4Y3 Judy x 44

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 72
FM-2 Wildcat x 35
F4U-1A Corsair x 72
F6F-3 Hellcat x 276

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 20 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 6 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Emperor Norton I., on fire
CV Essex, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 1
BB New Jersey

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Gove at 82,126

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 105
A6M5c Zero x 28
A6M8 Zero x 14
B6N1 Jill x 32
B6N2 Jill x 38
D4Y3 Judy x 139
N1K1 Rex x 12

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
FM-2 Wildcat x 34
F4U-1A Corsair x 71
F6F-3 Hellcat x 194

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 3 destroyed by flak
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed, 12 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 11 destroyed, 48 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 26 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVL Belleau Wood, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVL Cowpens
CVL Princeton
CVL Langley
CV Hornet
CV Enterprise
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 1
BB Iowa
CVL Monterey
CA Chicago

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Gove at 82,126

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 14
A6M5c Zero x 28
B6N2 Jill x 36
B6N2a Jill x 12
D4Y3 Judy x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
FM-2 Wildcat x 34
F4U-1A Corsair x 68
F6F-3 Hellcat x 179

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed, 8 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
B6N2a Jill: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Iowa, Bomb hits 1
CV Hornet
CV Enterprise

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Darwin (76,124)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 20309 troops, 68 guns, 258 vehicles, Assault Value = 382

Defending force 1295 troops, 32 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Allied adjusted assault: 348

Japanese adjusted defense: 4

Allied assault odds: 87 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Darwin !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 9 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
650 casualties reported
Squads: 27 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 17 (16 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 2

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Australian Division
2nd Australian Division
12th USN Naval Construction Regiment
5th RAAF M/W Sqn
2nd Medium Regiment
16th USN Naval Construction Regiment
17th NZ AA Bde

Defending units:
I/19th Naval Guard Unit
48th JNAF AF Unit
67th Nav Gd /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1182

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 1:03:39 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The next turn begins with the CAs finding some ships in the night. These unescorted APA are a surprise, and the IJN unfortunately expends a lot of ammo and torps for these three ships. Nice to get to some but this worries me about the next battle(s) of the night and day here ...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1183

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 1:06:41 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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A sigh of relief does with the first search missions of the morning. No massive rush of Allied surface ships go for the KB and there are still at least some targets in range. Again LBA strikes first hitting a number of small xAP and AK at Darwin.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1184

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 1:08:16 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The KB follows on with strikes against some of these and other TFs down the OZ coastline near Groot Eylandt.

The Essex is sunk but this leaves about 1/2 of the strike package without a target! (A good problem, I know).

It turns out that a lot of the Allied ships run just far enough to get out of range.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1185

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 3:13:03 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The next strike went for LST at an 8 hex distance and sank a whole TF of them. As you can see here I wanted to limit strike distance to a few hexes short of Merauke and Mornington Island in case massive LR CAP was set there. It turned out not to be a problem as no TFs went that direction (that I was able to find with extensive search).

This is the last useful strike of the day. A few others wiped the rest of the Darwin ships off the board.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1186

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 4:03:26 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The squad change is historical. The IJA changed the structure of their squads - notice how the load cost drops from 19 to 17 as well. They reduced the number of men in the squads. Looked it up, or it came up on these forums, some time ago.

The flak updates aren't so much on the device stats IIRC, but the layout and so forth.

Yes, it is probably historical. I was confused someone mentions IJA gets more AT in 43 squads, but that was probably a mod. So scen 1 should have the same downgrade of 43 squads then, right? I believe in the "babes" IJ motor squads are already better from the start and 43 they get 20 or so +AT. They should get a bit better, also in soft imho, IIRC they get a better LMG also in service. +10 AT and + 2 AS would be fair. This is not much compared to the Allied upgraded. I also doubt every British or Indian squad in this theater had a PIAT. Maybe not even in Europe. Apart from the fact PIAT was not really good (yes it got lucky hits on Tigers)

I guess in the "normal" last patch version game I play AA is pretty effective already, at least Allied one (as it should be). If Allied planes fly low even IJ gets the one or other lucky hit Gotta check out the beta you guys talk about...

The flak updates we're talking about are actually in the scenario updates from Andy. They are in the modding subforum somewhere... Unofficial Scenario Updates I think is the thread title. It basically makes a lot of updates to ships especially, similar to DBB. Changing device numbers and whatnot - no more 8-rack E-class vessels for Japan, for one thing.

The LMG is not in the IJA infantry squad to my knowledge, but what do I know?

In my Scen 1 game, with the database updates, the IJA Infantry '43 has an anti-armor of 25. That is +20 from the previous squad.

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 1187

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 4:06:01 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Too bad about your CAs...

The carrier losses ought to slow him down. Makes up for your early war losses, perhaps.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 10/31/2016 4:07:35 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1188

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 4:57:16 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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UPDATE:

I've just had a note from my opponent. Joseph has now laid down an ultimatum following this turn. In his own words:

"Sleeping on things, I've come to the conclusion that if you get another eight hex strike against me at any point during the game from here on out, I will concede immediately. This feature has wrecked this game."

He goes on to say he'll sit of the next 9 months of game and wait until 45 to continue forward.

I wrote back to say I understand, and these kinds of turns are difficult, but that we both knew of this game feature when we began. It's not completely under my control whether it happens again. It's also a design decision based on historical conditions.

I hope the game continues, but it looks like Joseph may not be willing to go forward within the framework we began with, the basic HRs and gameplay we agreed to when he picked it up. I've asked that if he decides to stop that I can yet again try to find someone to take over the Allies and play into the late game. Not sure if anyone would be interested now, but I'd hate to let it go while it's in the most interesting phase of the conflict.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1189

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 4:59:13 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Too bad about your CAs...

The carrier losses ought to slow him down. Makes up for your early war losses, perhaps.

Well, exactly. Not quite even though still. I've lost four CVs in game and a few CVL. The Allies have now lost 2-3 CVs and about 8-12 CVEs. I've sunk 1-2 fast BBs and a good amount of CA/CL, but now just lost three more CA, as you point out. I'd have to check but I think that means I have only about 8-10 left.

Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/31/2016 5:03:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1190

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 5:11:54 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Too bad about your CAs...

The carrier losses ought to slow him down. Makes up for your early war losses, perhaps.

Well, exactly. Not quite even though still. I've lost four CVs in game and a few CVL. The Allies have now lost 2-3 CVs and about 8-12 CVEs. I've sunk 1-2 fast BBs and a good amount of CA/CL, but now just lost three more CA, as you point out. I'd have to check but I think that means I have only about 8-10 left.

Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

To be blunt, it seems that he wasn't entirely prepared for your possible response and got burned by it. I would guess that to be the source of most of his frustration.

He wouldn't need to wait 9 months to do other things. There are plenty of other targets. It's a bit late to have been invading towards Darwin, IMO - and not even 100% prepped, as his artillery landing shows. Beyond that, it doesn't look like he lost that many amphibs (although I'm unsure of any previous losses), which would be his true limiting factor - not the loss of carriers. He gets so many that unless we're talking about the Allies losing 10-12 carriers, he'll be able to conduct operations that move the peanut towards Allied victory.

Digging deeper - it looks like his CAP did awful. Over 400 planes up in the combat report, but a strike package of only 100 planes got through to cripple/sink Essex in that second strike? I'd be willing to bet he ran "leaky CAP", which I've long posited is much, much weaker than range 0 CAP. So, CAP settings. The first strike had 450+ Allied CAP, but a package of 300+ planes for you. Of course some of those are going to get through.

It's also worth noting that those CVEs don't have even decent AA until 9/44, when they go from 400-rating to 1000-rating.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1191

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 5:24:43 PM

Andav

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Joined: 5/8/2007
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Hey Overt,

I think Sqz is being completely silly about all of this. I do not know why he would think the game is over at this point and he can't do anything for 9 months. Figuring out the puzzle is what makes the game fun. I do hope you get to continue. I have told witpqs he needs to pick up the Allies.

Wa

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1192

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 5:25:31 PM

Drakanel

Posts: 253
Joined: 4/6/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I hope the game continues, but it looks like Joseph may not be willing to go forward within the framework we began with, the basic HRs and gameplay we agreed to when he picked it up. I've asked that if he decides to stop that I can yet again try to find someone to take over the Allies and play into the late game. Not sure if anyone would be interested now, but I'd hate to let it go while it's in the most interesting phase of the conflict.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

I have been following both AARs, and so I have posted very little on this thread. I will pitch in my 2 cents. He obviously took very bad this turn of events, the 8 hex strikes. However, I want to say you obviously have nothing to apologize for. He is being unreasonable here.

Sure, the 8 hex strikes may feel "unjust" because the allies cannot do them. But then again, the entire Allies OOB can feel just as much "unjust" to the japanese player. After all, japan will never have 30 or so CVs. Not to mention everything else.

Even a particularly bad land battle roll can feel "unjust", when a strongly defended position falls due to bad luck. It's part of the game. All this game is filled with dice rolls, and some of them will go bad. It's life, and it does not change the fact that he could still do a lot of things and progress in different directions. Besides, a game such a Witp is about the journey, not about the destination.

I really hope you can continue this game though, either against him or against someone else. I have been liking it, it's interesting.

< Message edited by Drakanel -- 10/31/2016 5:28:00 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1193

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:34:23 PM

dave sindel

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I hope the game continues, but it looks like Joseph may not be willing to go forward within the framework we began with, the basic HRs and gameplay we agreed to when he picked it up. I've asked that if he decides to stop that I can yet again try to find someone to take over the Allies and play into the late game. Not sure if anyone would be interested now, but I'd hate to let it go while it's in the most interesting phase of the conflict.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

I have been following both AARs, and so I have posted very little on this thread. I will pitch in my 2 cents. He obviously took very bad this turn of events, the 8 hex strikes. However, I want to say you obviously have nothing to apologize for. He is being unreasonable here.

Sure, the 8 hex strikes may feel "unjust" because the allies cannot do them. But then again, the entire Allies OOB can feel just as much "unjust" to the japanese player. After all, japan will never have 30 or so CVs. Not to mention everything else.

Even a particularly bad land battle roll can feel "unjust", when a strongly defended position falls due to bad luck. It's part of the game. All this game is filled with dice rolls, and some of them will go bad. It's life, and it does not change the fact that he could still do a lot of things and progress in different directions. Besides, a game such a Witp is about the journey, not about the destination.

I really hope you can continue this game though, either against him or against someone else. I have been liking it, it's interesting.

Well said Drakanel. I too hope that obvert gets to continue playing either with Sqz or some one that wants to take up the Allied cause.

(in reply to Drakanel)

Post #: 1194

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:41:31 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

We've been going back and forth for a while. I wrote a fairly direct note saying that I would not play with the no 8 hex strike condition. I also wrote to say I've really enjoyed the game since Sqz took over. He has played well and gotten the Allies poised for a comeback. We have no schedule because of the change of leadership, so I would be happy to be in 46 with the Russians mopping up Asia and jets over Tokyo.

He's written back to say he would continue without the condition, and would try to get things moving in a reasonable timeframe, but that certain areas to need a rework, like Burma. His note was funny and strait-up, the Joseph I've gotten to know when he's not bemoaning game mechanics.

Thanks for all of the notes here. Very much appreciated. I'll get to work on the turn now.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to dave sindel)

Post #: 1195

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:46:33 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Too bad about your CAs...

The carrier losses ought to slow him down. Makes up for your early war losses, perhaps.

Well, exactly. Not quite even though still. I've lost four CVs in game and a few CVL. The Allies have now lost 2-3 CVs and about 8-12 CVEs. I've sunk 1-2 fast BBs and a good amount of CA/CL, but now just lost three more CA, as you point out. I'd have to check but I think that means I have only about 8-10 left.

Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

To be blunt, it seems that he wasn't entirely prepared for your possible response and got burned by it. I would guess that to be the source of most of his frustration.

He wouldn't need to wait 9 months to do other things. There are plenty of other targets. It's a bit late to have been invading towards Darwin, IMO - and not even 100% prepped, as his artillery landing shows. Beyond that, it doesn't look like he lost that many amphibs (although I'm unsure of any previous losses), which would be his true limiting factor - not the loss of carriers. He gets so many that unless we're talking about the Allies losing 10-12 carriers, he'll be able to conduct operations that move the peanut towards Allied victory.

Digging deeper - it looks like his CAP did awful. Over 400 planes up in the combat report, but a strike package of only 100 planes got through to cripple/sink Essex in that second strike? I'd be willing to bet he ran "leaky CAP", which I've long posited is much, much weaker than range 0 CAP. So, CAP settings. The first strike had 450+ Allied CAP, but a package of 300+ planes for you. Of course some of those are going to get through.

It's also worth noting that those CVEs don't have even decent AA until 9/44, when they go from 400-rating to 1000-rating.

I agree. The Darwin op was a rush, and not entirely needed. It would have made me very uncomfortable if it had been more successful, but I can still hit that single base pretty hard here.

There are many options and lots of tools for the Allies. Jocke essentially moved up the New Guinea coastline with LBA and surface forces after a bad CV loss in our game.

Intersted in your CAP settings. I have always used a combined CAP but always leave some units on 0 hex patrols. Not many though. I have done a few (very casual( tests that to me indicated that number and cohesion were most important to a CV strike being successful. Late war IJN planes are quick, and they do scoot through faster than Vals and Kates.

With that in mind, the Grace will arrive next month!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1196

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:49:08 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

Hey Overt,

I think Sqz is being completely silly about all of this. I do not know why he would think the game is over at this point and he can't do anything for 9 months. Figuring out the puzzle is what makes the game fun. I do hope you get to continue. I have told witpqs he needs to pick up the Allies.

Wa

Thanks for that! It seems to have worked.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Andav)

Post #: 1197

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:51:02 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I hope the game continues, but it looks like Joseph may not be willing to go forward within the framework we began with, the basic HRs and gameplay we agreed to when he picked it up. I've asked that if he decides to stop that I can yet again try to find someone to take over the Allies and play into the late game. Not sure if anyone would be interested now, but I'd hate to let it go while it's in the most interesting phase of the conflict.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Very confused at why we're talking about quitting right now.

I have been following both AARs, and so I have posted very little on this thread. I will pitch in my 2 cents. He obviously took very bad this turn of events, the 8 hex strikes. However, I want to say you obviously have nothing to apologize for. He is being unreasonable here.

Sure, the 8 hex strikes may feel "unjust" because the allies cannot do them. But then again, the entire Allies OOB can feel just as much "unjust" to the japanese player. After all, japan will never have 30 or so CVs. Not to mention everything else.

Even a particularly bad land battle roll can feel "unjust", when a strongly defended position falls due to bad luck. It's part of the game. All this game is filled with dice rolls, and some of them will go bad. It's life, and it does not change the fact that he could still do a lot of things and progress in different directions. Besides, a game such a Witp is about the journey, not about the destination.

I really hope you can continue this game though, either against him or against someone else. I have been liking it, it's interesting.

Thanks. Glad you're finding the AAR interesting. If you do want to post and you're reading both sides, you can always question the Japanese econ/RnD and other Empire specific stuff. No worries there. Or general questions work too.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Drakanel)

Post #: 1198

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 6:55:42 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

I'll post more of the latest numbers and bit of a rundown of game losses after I do this turn.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1199

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 10/31/2016 7:56:24 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

99% of the time, I do range 0 CAP. Because I control my TFs down to the last hex. With direct/absolute orders, only cripples that are split off get left behind. If there are any cripples, I either directly order their protection or slow down to maintain protection, depending. But realistically speaking, the only cripples that could occur would be from SCTFs or subs. If I'm doing my job with searches, SCTFs are extremely unlikely - leaving subs. And aside from setting up what ASW I can, there's no point in worrying about whether they will or won't strike because it's out of my control.

Range 0 CAP maximizes your CAP over your forces and prevents silly things like sweeps of the dot base next door bleeding off 40% of your CAP only to have a large strike package literally within sight (you can see 40-80 miles in the air at various altitudes...) sink a bunch of ships.

There have been times when I've known that my forces would be 1 hex apart and I've set a few groups to range 1 CAP, but that's it. Otherwise, I generally prefer to LRCAP with a range setting of 0 for forces that aren't going to be in the CV/CVE hex.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1200

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