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- 3/10/2003 1:35:22 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VikingNo2
[B]I'll play test where do I get them again? [/B][/QUOTE]

please check page 9 of this thread!

thanks

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Post #: 151

- 3/25/2003 9:33:44 AM

Trey

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/28/2000
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline

Any news as to the ETA???

Thanks

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Post #: 152

- 3/25/2003 4:30:24 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trey
[B]Any news as to the ETA???

Thanks [/B][/QUOTE]

Tough to say...as it looks now, Harry and Tracer are driving themselves into a super-creative-graphics-development-amok-run, I don't want to end prematurely :D
I'm just thrilled like all others by what these guys come up with and every piece of their work is it worth to wait a bit...

The most important changes to the OOBs should be finished now, leaving only cosmetic and final touches...the changes include, e.g. :

- the whole crew issue (downgraded effectiveness and no use of smoke)

- small arms for guns

- move & fire for MMGs

- some reworked OOBs, like the Finnish and parts of the Russian

- heavy Flak no move & fire any more

to name a few...

I also got inspired by the discussion on improving the original OOBs and tested now the "*" - enemy presence issue...

It showed very clearly, that there is a pretty easy way of misusing this feature beyond it's intention and it does influence PBEM games a lot...as H2H is focused on human vs human play, I decided to disable this feature in general - that means there won't be any "*" shown at all. The "#", meaning this unit has been fired upon recently remains.

Also I'm thinking of "swapping" the unit classes of the "heavy flak" and "infantry guns", the way that infantry guns actually can move & fire...they were used that way (like rushing 50m forward in a street fighting and open fire without need to dug in the legs of the mount) and I think the misuse like it happened with the heavy flak (load them into a transport, move them forward, dismount, fire load and disappear again) is rather unlikely, as risking a transport, that does cost equal or more then a gun with only short range accuracy and very limited AT-capability does not make that much sense in my eyes...but I'm still not fully decided...

...err, to answer your question, I think around 3-4 weeks, but I will delay if anything promising is still to come from our graphis division :)

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Mir nach, ich folge euch !

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Post #: 153

- 3/25/2003 9:12:45 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
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From: Germany
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my shape graphics update part is more or less done and I�m just adding one or two more things that came up by user feedback.:)
I think tracer is almost finished too.

Joerg...were your smokeless crew tests successfull so far? :confused:

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Post #: 154

- 3/26/2003 7:45:44 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]
Joerg...were your smokeless crew tests successfull so far? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, tests were quite successfull...but I was quite unhappy with the icon of Inf-AT units displaying for the crews now, so I switched to ski-troops. They don't have smoke either and display every crew member like normal infantry, exactly what I want. The only setback is, that they move as fast in snow as they do in summer, but their speed is only 6, so it is not really a big thing...they just can flee a bit more effective from the enemy in snow conditions. The small arms have been downgraded in effectiveness, but remain in slot 1, as this is the only way to have differing fire power delivered from a 1 man or a 20 men crew...
In my last test I blew up 20 tanks and crew was running all over the field and not a single smoke round popped...was great :D
No strange behaviour has been encountered sofar, including AI and campaign battles.

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Post #: 155

- 3/27/2003 11:50:05 PM

Irinami

Posts: 746
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From: Florida, USA
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I still contend that your bigger crews tend to have less effective weapons (personal sidearms) compared to your smaller crews (who may well have an AAMG), so in the end putting it in slot 2 is about the same. Remember, everyone would also have quite limited ammo. ;)

Better minds than mine have weighed in on this, but that's my $0.02. More important to me is that the icon got changed to something more fitting. :)

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Post #: 156

- 3/27/2003 11:51:23 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]Yep, tests were quite successfull...but I was quite unhappy with the icon of Inf-AT units displaying for the crews now, so I switched to ski-troops. They don't have smoke either and display every crew member like normal infantry, exactly what I want. The only setback is, that they move as fast in snow as they do in summer, but their speed is only 6, so it is not really a big thing...they just can flee a bit more effective from the enemy in snow conditions. The small arms have been downgraded in effectiveness, but remain in slot 1, as this is the only way to have differing fire power delivered from a 1 man or a 20 men crew...
In my last test I blew up 20 tanks and crew was running all over the field and not a single smoke round popped...was great :D
No strange behaviour has been encountered sofar, including AI and campaign battles. [/B][/QUOTE]

sounds good to me! My experiences were actually the same, with scenarios, generated battles and campaigns. Voluntarily crewing and re-crewing works as well. :) I assume you also radio coded the crews to someting like x3 so they won�t be purchased by AIP routine when it looks for ski units?

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Post #: 157

- 3/28/2003 1:14:18 AM

Lars

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/19/2000
From: V�ster�s, Sweden
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]I also got inspired by the discussion on improving the original OOBs and tested now the "*" - enemy presence issue...

It showed very clearly, that there is a pretty easy way of misusing this feature beyond it's intention and it does influence PBEM games a lot...as H2H is focused on human vs human play, I decided to disable this feature in general - that means there won't be any "*" shown at all. The "#", meaning this unit has been fired upon recently remains. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, I can't tell you how gretful I am for this. I've had a talk with Paul Vebber regarding this matter, but he didn't give me any hope.
I feel like going down on my knees and kiss your feet... :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]Also I'm thinking of "swapping" the unit classes of the "heavy flak" and "infantry guns", the way that infantry guns actually can move & fire...they were used that way (like rushing 50m forward in a street fighting and open fire without need to dug in the legs of the mount) and I think the misuse like it happened with the heavy flak (load them into a transport, move them forward, dismount, fire load and disappear again) is rather unlikely, as risking a transport, that does cost equal or more then a gun with only short range accuracy and very limited AT-capability does not make that much sense in my eyes...but I'm still not fully decided...[/B][/QUOTE]
If you decide to make this swap, I hope you intend this for the smaller cal's only?
If used with big guns it may be as "gamey" as with the FlaK issue.

Thanks :)
/Lars

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Post #: 158

- 3/28/2003 4:52:45 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
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From: Phoenix, AZ
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]I also got inspired by the discussion on improving the original OOBs and tested now the "*" - enemy presence issue...

It showed very clearly, that there is a pretty easy way of misusing this feature beyond it's intention and it does influence PBEM games a lot...as H2H is focused on human vs human play, I decided to disable this feature in general - that means there won't be any "*" shown at all. The "#", meaning this unit has been fired upon recently remains.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think there is value in knowing if a unit you have already spotted has, in turn, spotted you. It is quite obvious in real battles whether you have been seen or not by a unit you are watching. The enemy's change in body language would be obvious as soon as he spots you. Sort of an "OH, ****!!":eek: look would happen.

I can, for argument's sake, agree that if I don't see anyone, I shouldn't know if I have been seen by the appearance of the *. However, it is very important and realistic for me to know if a unit I see has seen me. It will effect whether I take the 150 yard shot at him or wait for him to get a little closer.

Can't we have a middle ground rather than have the * always on or always off? I think always off is swinging the pendullum too far the other way.

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Post #: 159

- 3/28/2003 7:25:51 AM

Lars

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/19/2000
From: V�ster�s, Sweden
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I think there is value in knowing if a unit you have already spotted has, in turn, spotted you. It is quite obvious in real battles whether you have been seen or not by a unit you are watching. The enemy's change in body language would be obvious as soon as he spots you. Sort of an "OH, ****!!":eek: look would happen.

I can, for argument's sake, agree that if I don't see anyone, I shouldn't know if I have been seen by the appearance of the *. However, it is very important and realistic for me to know if a unit I see has seen me. It will effect whether I take the 150 yard shot at him or wait for him to get a little closer.

Can't we have a middle ground rather than have the * always on or always off? I think always off is swinging the pendullum too far the other way. [/B][/QUOTE]

It is of course a matter of opinion, but I don't agree with you rbrunsman.
The use of the "willy meter" is way too gamey to be anywhere near real battle. In the game, if you come 150 yards from the enemy without being shot at and with cautious movement and descent experienced troop, there is a good chance you didn't get seen. But you can't be certain and that's the point. With the * you get to know things you shouldn't know.

The middle ground is not an option, since it requires a change to the mech.exe.

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Post #: 160

- 3/28/2003 5:23:53 PM

Per-Anders Westin

Posts: 9
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From: Karlstad, Sweden
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Post #: 161

About the *... - 3/28/2003 9:30:45 PM

Irinami

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
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That * is somewhat supported with current US field manuals. (For the life of me I can't find it again, but I am 10% positive that it is in them.) There is a passage in, I believe, a section about taking out sentries and/or about general reconnaisance, which warns the soldier not to stare at their target because in some inexplicable way we seem to be able to sense when someone is looking at us for a long time.

That said, I somehow doubt our fifth-and-a-half sense is very effective at 400 meters. ;) So I say let the * go, as you have.

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Post #: 162

Possible correction due ??? - 3/30/2003 12:30:08 PM

chief

Posts: 1660
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From: Haines City FL, USA
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Leo: check this thread, particularly pg3, http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=400692#post400692

it may be of value if you haven't already seen it.

Resp. Chief:cool:

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Post #: 163

- 4/21/2003 6:03:27 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline

Giving this a bump, havnt heard anything on H2H for some time

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Post #: 164

- 4/23/2003 1:46:02 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alby
[B]Giving this a bump, havnt heard anything on H2H for some time [/B][/QUOTE]

If you don't hear from us, it means we don't have time to write 'cause we're working every minute on it ;)

Status:

all major changes made...only small error corrections and fine tuning going on, except for the graphics department...the guys keep on rotating at full speed :D

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Post #: 165

Just a thought - 4/23/2003 2:17:22 AM

Squirmer

Posts: 211
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Don't know if this has already been discussed. In the current version some of the German Inf-AT weapons have a HE Pen value of 222. This number should go in the AP Pen value to re-direct the AP ammo to the HEAT slot.

I think ... ? :)

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Post #: 166

Re: Just a thought - 4/23/2003 2:45:27 AM

Panzer Leo

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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Squirmer
[B]Don't know if this has already been discussed. In the current version some of the German Inf-AT weapons have a HE Pen value of 222. This number should go in the AP Pen value to re-direct the AP ammo to the HEAT slot.

I think ... ? :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Nope, it's actually meant this way. There was no HE round for PzSchreck and PzFaust, but the HEAT round was so effective against personel, that it was used on a regular base against infantry. To keep ammo loads realistic, I decided to use the 222 and make the HE rounds behave like HEAT once they strike armor. This method has only one setback: the HE rounds are not effected by skirts. This is why Bazookas still have rounds without the 222, as the Germans are almost the only ones to use skirts and the Bazooka would kill tanks it couldn't kill. But it also gets much higher ammo loads in return...

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Post #: 167

- 4/23/2003 6:21:59 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
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How about a slot for the observation aircraft?...(Storch,L5,etc...?)

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Post #: 168

- 4/23/2003 7:17:59 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
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From: Argentina
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by m10bob
[B]How about a slot for the observation aircraft?...(Storch,L5,etc...?) [/B][/QUOTE]

That would be great!

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Post #: 169

Soviet OOB & Armor Price - 4/23/2003 7:25:54 AM

Gallo Rojo

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Hey Leo!

two small questions:

I read that there will be some changes in the Soviet OOB ...

1) I whish that the player can choose the MBT on which he will mount the Tankodesantiniskys as it's now ... I really hate how it is in SPWaW v7.1 where you only can pick the T-34m41E as a riding tank for the tank-desant

2) Do you plan to modify the prices of some Soviet Armor? I hope not! I like the concept of relate the units price to its rarity factor to luring the player into realistic purchases that you have implemented in SPH2H. Regarding Soviet Armor, although some of them are really cheap (as for example the SU-85) I like the way as they are because it produces very realistic outcomes.

best,

Gallo Rojo

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Post #: 170

Re: Soviet OOB & Armor Price - 4/23/2003 1:14:22 PM

Panzer Leo

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
[B]Hey Leo!

two small questions:

I read that there will be some changes in the Soviet OOB ...

1) I whish that the player can choose the MBT on which he will mount the Tankodesantiniskys as it's now ... I really hate how it is in SPWaW v7.1 where you only can pick the T-34m41E as a riding tank for the tank-desant

2) Do you plan to modify the prices of some Soviet Armor? I hope not! I like the concept of relate the units price to its rarity factor to luring the player into realistic purchases that you have implemented in SPH2H. Regarding Soviet Armor, although some of them are really cheap (as for example the SU-85) I like the way as they are because it produces very realistic outcomes.

best,

Gallo Rojo [/B][/QUOTE]

1) was one of the first things to be changed... :)

2) No, prices will stay about the same for the Russians... :)

Aerial recon will not be available, as a Battailon / Regiment commander did not have access to such goodies like observer planes. They would lead to misuse and unrealistic "godseyes" flying around...sorry :(

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Post #: 171

- 4/23/2003 3:09:57 PM

VikingNo2

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I noticed that the later T-34 is cheaper than the earlier model, eventhough the later has better fire control, is that correct ?

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Post #: 172

- 4/23/2003 7:52:49 PM

Gallo Rojo

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From: Argentina
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by VikingNo2
[B]I noticed that the later T-34 is cheaper than the earlier model, eventhough the later has better fire control, is that correct ? [/B][/QUOTE]

I think that you are talking about T-34m43 (later) that is cheaper than T-34m42 (earlyer).
Leo will tell better, but I think that this is related with one of that I said in my previous post: SPH2H links prices with rarity to lure players into historical purchases. T-34m43 was a very comon tank and produced in larger numbers than T-34m42.
Aditionaly, T-34m42 although have poorer fire control has better armor protection ... I think, but I'm not sure, that this is because the T-34m42 in current SPH2H version represents an up-armored (thus "rare") version of T-34m42 tank (which other whise was pretty much the same tank than T-34m41 except for improvenments in the gear box, engine, and fire control system).

So T-34m42 was an better armored and "rare" tank, and that why it is more expensive than T-34m43

Notice also that there are two T-34m43: an earlyer model that has not APCR ammo (cost $75) and a latter model that has APCR and is more expensive (cost $88).

The more expensive versions T-34m42 and T-34E-m41 are the uper-armored versions: take a look to the armor and you will see that T-34m42 has the best lateral armor (60 on the chasis) for any T-34 version.

best,

Gallo

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Post #: 173

Re: Re: Soviet OOB & Armor Price - 4/23/2003 7:53:56 PM

Gallo Rojo

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From: Argentina
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]1) was one of the first things to be changed... :) [/B][/QUOTE]

:D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]2) No, prices will stay about the same for the Russians... :) [/B][/QUOTE]

:D

Note: I really like Russians prices are modeled in SPH2H (and how Red Army is modelede in general) because it allows you to fight with the Soviets as they fought during the war.

In SPH2H Soviets are much more poor trained than Germans, their tanks are fairly good although not excelent ... but they are really cheap!
So you can send a massive wave of steel against the Germans!

I usually need to spend 3 x T-34m43 for every single Tiger I kill ... but that is how it was!

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Post #: 174

Leo - 4/23/2003 11:06:15 PM

Gary Tatro

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I think I might have found a major bug. While playing a PBEM game in H2H one of my Indian Commando squads infilltrated on top of a Italian Weapons depot with a bunch of 75mm artillary pieces in the same hex. Very excited I clicked on my commando and went to the target screen (hit T) and the game crashed to desk top. Went back into the game and tried it again ( I had lost all of my moves that I had made previously). I did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I tried it one more time and it did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I used the commando by itself without going to the traget screen and it worked fine. The ammo depot blew up nicely killing everything in it including the commando squad but that was a small price to pay. I will try to post the ziped game and send you the password, if I still have it.

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Post #: 175

Re: Leo - 4/25/2003 2:46:20 AM

Panzer Leo

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Tatro
[B]I think I might have found a major bug. While playing a PBEM game in H2H one of my Indian Commando squads infilltrated on top of a Italian Weapons depot with a bunch of 75mm artillary pieces in the same hex. Very excited I clicked on my commando and went to the target screen (hit T) and the game crashed to desk top. Went back into the game and tried it again ( I had lost all of my moves that I had made previously). I did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I tried it one more time and it did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I used the commando by itself without going to the traget screen and it worked fine. The ammo depot blew up nicely killing everything in it including the commando squad but that was a small price to pay. I will try to post the ziped game and send you the password, if I still have it. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is very unlikely to be a H2H related bug, but rather an original glitch in the SPWAW coding...means I can't do anything about it...these are things we have to live with, but as it also is a very rare and not common situation, it shouldn't be a major thread to game play...

Gallo Rojo is correct with his explanation of the T-34 m42/43 costs, it's because of the armor mainly and the rarity. The T-34s underwent quite some noteworthy changes in the patch. The variants will be:

m40
m41
m41E the only uparmored variant
m42 with regular armor and Mickey Mouse turret
m43 differing from m42 mainly in the use of the better BR-350B round (penetration of 91mm instead of 84mm)
m43 with APCR ammo
85mm m43 with D-5 gun and two men turret
85mm m44 with Zis-S 53 gun and APCR

After quite some research I came to the conclusion, that these models represent the T-34 family the best and give players the most historical choices...the 8 variants come with 6 different icons and all are available for Tankodesantniki formations.

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Post #: 176

Re: Re: Leo - 4/25/2003 12:12:44 PM

Gallo Rojo

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]Gallo Rojo is correct with his explanation of the T-34 m42/43 costs, it's because of the armor mainly and the rarity. The T-34s underwent quite some noteworthy changes in the patch. The variants will be:

m40
m41
m41E the only uparmored variant
m42 with regular armor and Mickey Mouse turret
m43 differing from m42 mainly in the use of the better BR-350B round (penetration of 91mm instead of 84mm)
m43 with APCR ammo
85mm m43 with D-5 gun and two men turret
85mm m44 with Zis-S 53 gun and APCR

After quite some research I came to the conclusion, that these models represent the T-34 family the best and give players the most historical choices...the 8 variants come with 6 different icons and all are available for Tankodesantniki formations. [/B][/QUOTE]

Man, I'm start thinking that I love you :D ;)

I always wonder why were one T-34m41 and one T-34m42 with the same turret given that they were almost the same tank!
I always thought that all what we needed to be realistic was one m41 model (may be with a little improvement in the fire control) and one m41E upper-armored ... and that's all! T-34m41 and T-34m42 were almost the same tank! Why having two!

Three questions and one idea

First question:
Which T-34 models will use the same icon? (I mean, if you have 6 icons and 8 versions, therefore at leas two models must use the same icon)

The idea:
As T-34m42 and T-34m43 will all have the hexagonal �mikey mouse� turret � could be possible to introducing different icons for the m42 and m43 with BR-350B and the m43 with APCR? Just for can differentiate them at one sigh...

I have been thinking that T-34m42/43 could have the two rectangular external fuel tanks on the rear; which was the most usual external fuel tanks on late 1942 and early 1943 carried by T-34.

Second question:
Can you please tell me which will be the fire control and range finder for each model? and may be the prices? (I'm promoting the new H2H version whiting the Spanish speaker players... and inside information is mostly welcomed ... this new about a T-34 having an improved penetration performance will be very well welcomed among many of the Spanish-speakers-red-army-fans).

Third question:
Which will be the differences in term of performance between T-34/85m43 and T-34/85m44? I guess that T-34/85m43 may have poorer penetration capacity (given that the D-5 wasn�t as good as the Zis-S 53) and that it may have a lower ROF (given the two men turret).
And finally: will they have different icons? As far as I remember the T-34/85m43 had a two hatches turret while the T-34/85m44 had one hatch and a cupola (like the SU-100 cupola). But I can be wrong about that � my speciality is the T-34/76 not the T-34/85 (the real New Soviet Men can deal with Tigers with the 76mm gun, only cowards ask for the 85mm) ;) :D

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(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 177

Re: Re: Re: Leo - 4/26/2003 2:53:16 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
[B]Man, I'm start thinking that I love you :D ;)

I always wonder why were one T-34m41 and one T-34m42 with the same turret given that they were almost the same tank!
I always thought that all what we needed to be realistic was one m41 model (may be with a little improvement in the fire control) and one m41E upper-armored ... and that's all! T-34m41 and T-34m42 were almost the same tank! Why having two!

Three questions and one idea

First question:
Which T-34 models will use the same icon? (I mean, if you have 6 icons and 8 versions, therefore at leas two models must use the same icon)

The idea:
As T-34m42 and T-34m43 will all have the hexagonal �mikey mouse� turret � could be possible to introducing different icons for the m42 and m43 with BR-350B and the m43 with APCR? Just for can differentiate them at one sigh...

I have been thinking that T-34m42/43 could have the two rectangular external fuel tanks on the rear; which was the most usual external fuel tanks on late 1942 and early 1943 carried by T-34.

Second question:
Can you please tell me which will be the fire control and range finder for each model? and may be the prices? (I'm promoting the new H2H version whiting the Spanish speaker players... and inside information is mostly welcomed ... this new about a T-34 having an improved penetration performance will be very well welcomed among many of the Spanish-speakers-red-army-fans).

Third question:
Which will be the differences in term of performance between T-34/85m43 and T-34/85m44? I guess that T-34/85m43 may have poorer penetration capacity (given that the D-5 wasn�t as good as the Zis-S 53) and that it may have a lower ROF (given the two men turret).
And finally: will they have different icons? As far as I remember the T-34/85m43 had a two hatches turret while the T-34/85m44 had one hatch and a cupola (like the SU-100 cupola). But I can be wrong about that � my speciality is the T-34/76 not the T-34/85 (the real New Soviet Men can deal with Tigers with the 76mm gun, only cowards ask for the 85mm) ;) :D [/B][/QUOTE]

The m42 and m43 use the same icons (with fuel tanks) and I got another one without...if I find an open slot, I will use it...

m40 FC2RF2 cost64
m41 3/3 69
m41E 3/3 102
m42 4/3 73
m43 4/4 75 (82 with APCR)
85m43 5/4 93
85m44 5/4 97

the 85mm use different icons, both had a cuppola (the m43 more to the front of the turret). The gun of m43 is weaker and ROF only 4 instead of 5 on the m44.

As you seem to have some T-34 experts there (or maybe you know yourself), you might be able to help me on this one:

I know, that a smoke round for the F-34 gun existed and was produced, but how common was it for T-34s to use and carry smoke rounds compared to Western Allies (Shermans) or German tanks (usually had a base load of 2-4 rounds) also taking into account some changes over the war years ?

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(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 178

Re: Re: Re: Re: Leo - 4/26/2003 7:34:05 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]
I know, that a smoke round for the F-34 gun existed and was produced, but how common was it for T-34s to use and carry smoke rounds compared to Western Allies (Shermans) or German tanks (usually had a base load of 2-4 rounds) also taking into account some changes over the war years ? [/B][/QUOTE]

Uhmmm that's a good question ...
As far as I know rarely employed the Soviets smoke ammo on the T-34.
I know that they use to give smoke ammo to the T-34 if they will go to support a friendly infantry assault against enemy infantery.
So I guess that whether if they would carry smoke ammo greately depend on the type of mission.

SPWaW 7.1 gives smoke only to the T-34Em41, which is the only to whom Tankodesantiniskys can be attached. So I guess that is assuming that only T-34s which its major roll will be support infantry are the ones that carries smoke ammo.

I think that this is a fairly good solution (giving the limitations of the game, i.e. the player can't pick the ammo that he wants).

I think that at least one version of T-34 must have smoke ammo (not many rounds, but 2 at least).

I sent an email to a couple of friends asking you question and also posted on the Russian Battle Field Forum.

I let you know as soon as I have any ansewer.

A couple more questions by mi side:
First: On what base do the T-34/76 have diferent range-finder/fire-control ratios? ... I know that hexagonal turret of T-34m42/43 and m43 was better than the previous one and the gun was more stable with this turret ... But I never knew why T-34m41 and T-34m42 had different fire-control/range-finder valudes ... I guess that may be related to improvments in cross country performance (as far as I remember the m42 incorporated more rubber rimed wheels or something like this (although I know that this depended a big sort about the avaiability and the particular factory where the tank was built) ... was because of that?

Second question:
I read that late on the war Tigres carried a few HEAT ammo to deal with heavy soviet tanks (JS serie), but nor SPWaW neither SPH2H does Tigres carry any HEAT ammo ... Do you ever considern about add a couple of HEAT rounds for Tigre I (Late)?

best,

Gallo Rojo

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(in reply to Panzer Leo)

Post #: 179

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leo - 4/27/2003 3:14:14 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
[B]Uhmmm that's a good question ...
As far as I know rarely employed the Soviets smoke ammo on the T-34.
I know that they use to give smoke ammo to the T-34 if they will go to support a friendly infantry assault against enemy infantery.
So I guess that whether if they would carry smoke ammo greately depend on the type of mission.

SPWaW 7.1 gives smoke only to the T-34Em41, which is the only to whom Tankodesantiniskys can be attached. So I guess that is assuming that only T-34s which its major roll will be support infantry are the ones that carries smoke ammo.

I think that this is a fairly good solution (giving the limitations of the game, i.e. the player can't pick the ammo that he wants).

I think that at least one version of T-34 must have smoke ammo (not many rounds, but 2 at least).

I sent an email to a couple of friends asking you question and also posted on the Russian Battle Field Forum.

I let you know as soon as I have any ansewer.

A couple more questions by mi side:
First: On what base do the T-34/76 have diferent range-finder/fire-control ratios? ... I know that hexagonal turret of T-34m42/43 and m43 was better than the previous one and the gun was more stable with this turret ... But I never knew why T-34m41 and T-34m42 had different fire-control/range-finder valudes ... I guess that may be related to improvments in cross country performance (as far as I remember the m42 incorporated more rubber rimed wheels or something like this (although I know that this depended a big sort about the avaiability and the particular factory where the tank was built) ... was because of that?

Second question:
I read that late on the war Tigres carried a few HEAT ammo to deal with heavy soviet tanks (JS serie), but nor SPWaW neither SPH2H does Tigres carry any HEAT ammo ... Do you ever considern about add a couple of HEAT rounds for Tigre I (Late)?

best,

Gallo Rojo [/B][/QUOTE]

The FC/RF values are taken from the original 7.1 and I would say your assumptions why they are that way come pretty close to what Paul and the guys had in mind when modeling them...at least it makes sense to me :D
The m42 I use is the later one with the hexagonal turret, being therefore almost identical with the m43 and not the m41 (I think optics improved on later models...).

The HEAT rounds...well, as far as I know, they were not really there for use against heavy Russian tanks. They were not powerfull enough and also were carried right from the start, not only later in the war. I would assume they carried a few rounds because they could be used vs infantry and armor alike (although being not as efficient as the HE or AP for it's specific task).
The problem is, that this dual purpose role cannot be modeled by SPWAW...so I left them out...

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Post #: 180