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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 3:46:43 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Finished Margaret MacMillan's Peacemakers.

Having finished it I just want to go back and read it all over again. A wonderful, interesting, well written, thought-provoking book. As all good books should, this tome makes me want to read more on the subject (if anyone knows another good work on the Treaty of Versailles please let me know).

The conclusion chapter could have been a little longer, but that is my only real gripe.

Anyone interested in World War I and II should read this. It is pleasing to see three of the most oft repeated and tired, lazy comments and accusations about the Treaty thoroughly demolished - specifically:

a) the ridiculously simplistic idea that Versailles caused World War II
b) the sweeping statement that the British and particularly the French were the cause of the problems and that if only they had listended to the Americans all would have been right.
c) Versailles created Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Poland.

MacMillan spares no one, French, British, American, Italian, or anyone else. She makes clear that each power had their own needs and requirements, fears and hopes, and that within each power, there was rarely a unified voice - not to mention the court of public opinion which those who dealt with the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars never had to face in the same way - particularly difficult if you are from a democracy....

Not least is the fact that at the end of the day we are talking about human beings, with their individual strengths and weaknesses, and personal prejudices that could affect, to a surprising degree, whether they supported a view point or worked against it.

Superb stuff

Great review ... on my list to read asap

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 4:41:36 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Because its b******!

As he's telling this tale I thought maybe the guy went on to fight in the US Army or his team-mates were all at Pearl or the team owner personally paid for a squadron of B-17's....

No, it was none of the above, and the whole two pages were totally pointless. It rather reminded me of this wonderful saying:

Going to war without France* is like going deer hunting without your euphonium

Well:

Writing a book about the Western Front in WWII without mentioning some baseball dood who had nothing to do with the war is....

*nothing personal my French friends

You poor poor poor little snowflake. Having to read two whole pages about something you don't yet appreciate the significance of.

Does your government provide you with a hardship program for such feats?

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 5:58:13 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Finished Margaret MacMillan's Peacemakers.

Having finished it I just want to go back and read it all over again. A wonderful, interesting, well written, thought-provoking book. As all good books should, this tome makes me want to read more on the subject (if anyone knows another good work on the Treaty of Versailles please let me know).

The conclusion chapter could have been a little longer, but that is my only real gripe.

Anyone interested in World War I and II should read this. It is pleasing to see three of the most oft repeated and tired, lazy comments and accusations about the Treaty thoroughly demolished - specifically:

a) the ridiculously simplistic idea that Versailles caused World War II
b) the sweeping statement that the British and particularly the French were the cause of the problems and that if only they had listended to the Americans all would have been right.
c) Versailles created Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Poland.

MacMillan spares no one, French, British, American, Italian, or anyone else. She makes clear that each power had their own needs and requirements, fears and hopes, and that within each power, there was rarely a unified voice - not to mention the court of public opinion which those who dealt with the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars never had to face in the same way - particularly difficult if you are from a democracy....

Not least is the fact that at the end of the day we are talking about human beings, with their individual strengths and weaknesses, and personal prejudices that could affect, to a surprising degree, whether they supported a view point or worked against it.

Superb stuff

Great review ... on my list to read asap

warspite1

I hope you won't be disappointed - I don't think you will

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Post #: 2223

RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 6:06:09 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Because its b******!

As he's telling this tale I thought maybe the guy went on to fight in the US Army or his team-mates were all at Pearl or the team owner personally paid for a squadron of B-17's....

No, it was none of the above, and the whole two pages were totally pointless. It rather reminded me of this wonderful saying:

Going to war without France* is like going deer hunting without your euphonium

Well:

Writing a book about the Western Front in WWII without mentioning some baseball dood who had nothing to do with the war is....

*nothing personal my French friends

You poor poor poor little snowflake. Having to read two whole pages about something you don't yet appreciate the significance of.

Does your government provide you with a hardship program for such feats?

warspite1

A couple of things old fruit:

1. Why has 'snowflake' become so popular all of a sudden? Is it anything to do with Frozen? I don't think I ever heard this word as a negative description until the last few months - now I hear it all the time from youse peeps across the pond.

2. But that is the problem. There is no significance. Its like reading a book on the Arab-Israeli war and to be told in some detail that in 1914 Burnley won the FA Cup for the only time in their history when they beat Liverpool 1-0. Okay thanks.... erm....

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Post #: 2224

RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 6:11:42 PM

Orm

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Stop the presses! Liverpool lost to Burnley?! That must go on the front page!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 7:17:56 PM

mikkey

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After Larry Bond and Patrick Larkin Red Phoenix I begins reading Larry Bond and Chris Carlson Red Phoenix Burning.

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Post #: 2226

RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/10/2017 7:28:32 PM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
1. Why has 'snowflake' become so popular all of a sudden? Is it anything to do with Frozen? I don't think I ever heard this word as a negative description until the last few months - now I hear it all the time from youse peeps across the pond.

From the epic movie "Fight Club":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP5aqAC8PPY

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Post #: 2227

RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 12:39:54 PM

Recognition

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I`m still reading the 3 Vol`s of 1809 Thunder on the Danube by John H Gill.

Before PC`s I used to read a lot, but now with gaming etc I find it hard to find the time...Pity!!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 4:45:56 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay so the brilliant Peacemakers finished, I now move on to James Holland's The War in the West. This is the first of three books and covers 1939-1941.

Bad start... he's spent 2 pages on baseball and some guy who had nothing to do with the war.... Er, okay...

warspite1

There we go! That is more like it. The latest chapter has a couple of pages on cricket, and a game between Yorkshire (the county champions) and Sussex. So why is that okay? Well the game took place on the weekend that war broke out, it featured, as the star bowler and match winner, the Yorkshire and England cricketer Hedley Verity. No doubt Mr Verity will feature later in this and other volumes; he joined the Green Howards and was sadly killed in 1943 fighting the Italians.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 7:10:00 PM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
The latest chapter has a couple of pages on cricket

Wow! Now it's a regular page turner it is! Cricket! Really! You don't say? Jolly jolly jolly.....

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 7:38:52 PM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
The latest chapter has a couple of pages on cricket

Wow! Now it's a regular page turner it is! Cricket! Really! You don't say? Jolly jolly jolly.....

You said it, Chickenboy.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 7:47:54 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
The latest chapter has a couple of pages on cricket

Wow! Now it's a regular page turner it is! Cricket! Really! You don't say? Jolly jolly jolly.....

You said it, Chickenboy.

warspite1

Just so you know, after a close first innings between the two counties, Sussex were bowled out for just 33 in their second innings with Verity taking seven wickets for nine runs!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 7:49:39 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just so you know, after a close first innings between the two counties, Sussex were bowled out for just 33 in their second innings with Verity taking seven wickets for nine runs!

Wow. That sounds awesome. Only trouble is that I do not understand even the tiniest bit of what you just said.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 7:59:58 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just so you know, after a close first innings between the two counties, Sussex were bowled out for just 33 in their second innings with Verity taking seven wickets for nine runs!

Wow. That sounds awesome. Only trouble is that I do not understand even the tiniest bit of what you just said.

'Just so you know' is a common expression used to express factual information that may be unknown to the respondent. It has an air of caring and preparing one's conversant for the receipt of information that is germane to the topic(s) to follow.

For example, "Just so you know-there are fifty American states in the United States of America." or "Just so you know-my doctor said this curious drainage was *not* the result of infection."

I hope this helps.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/11/2017 8:00:12 PM

Chickenboy

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The rest was gibberish.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/12/2017 8:18:35 PM

wodin

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Here you go...great read..so I suppose it will be a very good listen too:)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1782006257/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2VYVCXQRXDQX1&coliid=I1JCNIF1FRKQ0W

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodyMetal

Any recommendation for an audiobook about ww2 eastern front (historical)? I listen to one called Deathride by Josh Mosier but didnt like it much.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/17/2017 12:20:39 AM

JEB Davis

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Blood Red Snow: The Memoirs of a German Soldier on the Eastern Front
by G�nter K. Koschorrek

I recommend it.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/17/2017 11:55:17 AM

RFalvo69

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To Lose a Battle: France 1940, by Alistair Horne.

It is my first book by Horne, but, apart from the interesting topic, it is so well researched and written that I'll seek out others.

I'm also reading East Indies by Ian Burnet, a history of the European colonization of SE Asia from the XVI Century to modern times; a byproduct of my Portuguese campaign in Europa Universalis IV

What I'm looking for, now, are some books about the same area before the Europeans arrived. Places like Angkor Vat and the Valley of One-thousand Temples have always fascinated me, but I never read about the people and the cultures who built them.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/17/2017 6:36:33 PM

Zorch

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Alistair Horne is one of my favorite authors. His book on Verdun, The Price of Glory is classic.
Some of his works are dated, though.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/17/2017 6:49:01 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Alistair Horne is one of my favorite authors. His book on Verdun, The Price of Glory is classic.
Some of his works are dated, though.

agree, the trilogy of 1871/1916 and 1940 is such a compelling read as he uses it to explore the birth, evolution and death of the Third Republic as well as the military side. And he is so good at capturing a lot of detail into such clear easy to follow prose.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/17/2017 6:55:12 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Alistair Horne is one of my favorite authors. His book on Verdun, The Price of Glory is classic.
Some of his works are dated, though.

agree, the trilogy of 1871/1916 and 1940 is such a compelling read as he uses it to explore the birth, evolution and death of the Third Republic as well as the military side. And he is so good at capturing a lot of detail into such clear easy to follow prose.

warspite1

I am tempted by these - with the WWII episode being first and foremost. Sadly I am not massively impressed with James Holland's War in the West.

I am looking for a really detailed study of the campaign complete with detailed OOB. It would be really nice to get a detailed look at the Armee del'air too - numbers, losses, trained pilots etc.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/18/2017 2:30:19 PM

Kuokkanen

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I read manga:
The Ancient Magus' Bride (Finnish translation)
Vinland Saga
How to Build a Dungeon: Book of the Demon King

Waiting for next volume of Another (Finnish translation that is). Also waiting for more chapters of Otome Sensou Divci Valka by Ohnishi Kouichi. It is realistic portrayal of Hussite Wars. That war where infantry firearms entered to widespread service. Official translations are in French, but English translations are available somewhere on the Internet. Look it up; I promise it'll be well worth the trouble.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/18/2017 2:49:16 PM

chemkid

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.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/24/2018 12:35:19 PM >

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/18/2017 2:51:13 PM

Ironclad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rush

I`m still reading the 3 Vol`s of 1809 Thunder on the Danube by John H Gill.

Before PC`s I used to read a lot, but now with gaming etc I find it hard to find the time...Pity!!

Likewise. Although for me its probably using the computer generally not just the gaming time. In fairness I think my reading had already reduced significantly before the computer made an impact - the aging effect I guess. In early life I used to devour books at a rapid pace, now it takes me all my time to concentrate on finishing each one, no matter how interested I am in the subject matter.

Gill's trilogy is very impressive, and plenty of good maps - although I needed the magnifier to follow the detail on some of them.

Currently am just finishing The Coming Of the Third Reich by Richard Evans, the first of his trilogy and have just got today the second book The Third Reich in Power. Btw if anyone hasn't used it, I strongly recommend the on line seller Wordery for its very competitive rates.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/18/2017 3:11:06 PM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Alistair Horne is one of my favorite authors. His book on Verdun, The Price of Glory is classic.
Some of his works are dated, though.

agree, the trilogy of 1871/1916 and 1940 is such a compelling read as he uses it to explore the birth, evolution and death of the Third Republic as well as the military side. And he is so good at capturing a lot of detail into such clear easy to follow prose.

warspite1

I am tempted by these - with the WWII episode being first and foremost. Sadly I am not massively impressed with James Holland's War in the West.

I am looking for a really detailed study of the campaign complete with detailed OOB. It would be really nice to get a detailed look at the Armee del'air too - numbers, losses, trained pilots etc.

Oddly for a book that is 660+ pages long, the level of detail is variable. He deals with the set up pretty briskly, then the events from 10-23 May get about 50% of the book and there is a lot about the movement of specific units and so on (both sides). The final battles up to mid-June we again canter through at some pace.

Also he does discuss the political side among the military detail. But you come out with a good appreciation for the main dynamics of the campaign. He does have an agenda that the Third Republic was a house of cards by 1939 having lost the loyalty of about 40% of its population (ie the fascists and communists) while mired in political deadlock, but he carries that fairly lightly.

edit: its light on OOB, you get the big picture stuff but not really below divisional-army set ups.

edit 2: 'Peacemakers' is on order - thanks for the reccomendation.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/18/2017 3:13:35 PM >

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/18/2017 10:07:51 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Alistair Horne is one of my favorite authors. His book on Verdun, The Price of Glory is classic.
Some of his works are dated, though.

agree, the trilogy of 1871/1916 and 1940 is such a compelling read as he uses it to explore the birth, evolution and death of the Third Republic as well as the military side. And he is so good at capturing a lot of detail into such clear easy to follow prose.

warspite1

I am tempted by these - with the WWII episode being first and foremost. Sadly I am not massively impressed with James Holland's War in the West.

I am looking for a really detailed study of the campaign complete with detailed OOB. It would be really nice to get a detailed look at the Armee del'air too - numbers, losses, trained pilots etc.

Oddly for a book that is 660+ pages long, the level of detail is variable. He deals with the set up pretty briskly, then the events from 10-23 May get about 50% of the book and there is a lot about the movement of specific units and so on (both sides). The final battles up to mid-June we again canter through at some pace.

Also he does discuss the political side among the military detail. But you come out with a good appreciation for the main dynamics of the campaign. He does have an agenda that the Third Republic was a house of cards by 1939 having lost the loyalty of about 40% of its population (ie the fascists and communists) while mired in political deadlock, but he carries that fairly lightly.

edit: its light on OOB, you get the big picture stuff but not really below divisional-army set ups.

edit 2: 'Peacemakers' is on order - thanks for the reccomendation.

warspite1

Okay thanks. I get the feeling there simply may not be a properly detailed book about the campaign that seeks to support or debunk the 'accepted' version of events. All authors (that I have read) touching on the subject seem largely wedded to one or more of three 'accepted facts' (with perhaps some slight variations on a theme):

- The Germans won because of a new wonder tactic called Blitzkrieg
- The British sold the French down the river and it was all their fault
- The French were rubbish and it was all their fault.

Oh well, I'll keep looking.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/25/2017 2:45:37 AM

warspite1

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From: England
Status: offline

I bought Blitzkrieg by Lloyd Clark. I am halfway through War in the West but started reading the former out of curiosity as it has good reviews from the likes of Andrew Roberts and Robert Kershaw. I am hooked and will probably finish Blitzkrieg first.

The author raises some interesting points about the French Army in the inter-war years that at least helps to explain why the French didn't attack to help the Poles after declaring war. This has grabbed the attention - and may be the book I thought I was getting when buying Holland's book.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/25/2017 12:25:46 PM

berto

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The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and the Road to Yellow Tavern, May 7--12, 1864 by Gordon C. Rhea.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/26/2017 12:49:26 AM

nelmsm1

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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and the Road to Yellow Tavern, May 7--12, 1864 by Gordon C. Rhea.

You're a book ahead of me.....

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 1/26/2017 2:31:13 PM

durangokid

Posts: 146
Joined: 12/22/2015
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SAS: Rogue Heroes - the Authorized Wartime History

This book is about the formation of the SAS and it's activities up to the end of WWII. It's an easy entertaining read that isn't just about heroics.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28503837-rogue-heroes?from_search=true

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