Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? Page: <<   < prev  76 77 [78] 79 80   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/17/2017 2:21:05 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
You guys have ENTIRELY to much free time. I don't have time to watch a commercial, let alone a movie or documentary

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2311
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/17/2017 4:36:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Watched the Lego Batman movie. Not quite as good as the original, but still good and had some laugh out load moments and was a hit with the little warspites too

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 2312
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/17/2017 5:09:17 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Watched the Lego Batman movie. Not quite as good as the original, but still good and had some laugh out load moments and was a hit with the little warspites too

We agree. Worthwhile in its own way, but not quite as strong as the first LEGO movie. We saw it this past weekend.

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2313
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/18/2017 8:53:58 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: durangokid


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Len Deighton thriller SS-GB has been made into a mini series that starts on BBC1 on Sunday!

Haven't looked forward to a TV program so much in ages!

#can'twait




http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1gFzPFGN3LBfLH31vHsPPS8/alt-britain-how-ss-gb-turned-london-nazi


I read this avidly, like all Len Deighton books, when it came out. One of the (very) few advantages of growing old is that I can look forward to watching it, not knowing a thing about what happens.

If anyone is interested, a really first class read is, Bomber by Len Deighton. The 24 hour story of an RAF bombing raid in 1943.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/171625.Bomber?from_search=true



warspite1

LOL Indeed, although I was like that when younger too. For some reason my memory is very selective and one of the things I struggled with was remembering books and TV programs. E.g. I have read Raise The Titanic 3-times in my life. If I were to read it again now, I still couldn't tell you what happened

Really surprised this comment about SS-GB hasn't received more interest I mean its a war game forum and this is a superb story (not that I can remember exactly what happened - but I know I enjoyed reading it at the time ). If the TV series is anywhere near as good then we should be in for a treat .

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/18/2017 8:57:01 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to durangokid)
Post #: 2314
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/18/2017 10:14:32 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Really surprised this comment about SS-GB hasn't received more interest I mean its a war game forum and this is a superb story (not that I can remember exactly what happened - but I know I enjoyed reading it at the time ). If the TV series is anywhere near as good then we should be in for a treat .

I had no idea what SS-GB was so I had to look it up. And I didn't put much into it when I read about the book. But now that you seem to want a comment I have the following reflections.

1) I am not really into alternative history when it comes to major events.
2) And even with some major events changing the course of history this still feels like SF to me and could not have happened.
3) The entire concept baffles me. But I suppose it could be good viewing nonetheless.
4) I don't recall ever seeing Ms. Bosworth in a movie or show so I suppose it is about time I do so.
5) It is a BBC production and that is really the only reason I need for watching it.

A picture to illustrate point 4.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Orm -- 2/18/2017 10:15:12 AM >


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2315
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/18/2017 12:09:42 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline
I just watched "The Raid 2". What a trip!

Edit: BTW, can't wait for "John Wick 2" to reach these shores. The first was one of the best action movies to come out in the last decade.

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 2/18/2017 12:11:03 PM >


_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2316
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/18/2017 2:54:14 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

I just watched "The Raid 2". What a trip!

Edit: BTW, can't wait for "John Wick 2" to reach these shores. The first was one of the best action movies to come out in the last decade.


I saw a 'making of' documentary on John Wick 2. Keanu Reeves does his own tactical combat shooting in the film and preps with really-o truly-o live ammunition on a timed tactical gun range in preparation for the filming. It showed him on the range and he is very good in real life.

In an age of 'wire-Fu' and over the top CGI and fake choreographed gun fights and car chases, it is refreshing to have an action star train 'old school' for a movie. I might see it in the theaters for no other reason than to support such an approach.

_____________________________


(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 2317
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/19/2017 3:20:51 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I saw a 'making of' documentary on John Wick 2. Keanu Reeves does his own tactical combat shooting in the film and preps with really-o truly-o live ammunition on a timed tactical gun range in preparation for the filming. It showed him on the range and he is very good in real life.

In an age of 'wire-Fu' and over the top CGI and fake choreographed gun fights and car chases, it is refreshing to have an action star train 'old school' for a movie. I might see it in the theaters for no other reason than to support such an approach.


This is what makes the movie (along with the strange underworld which surrounds the killers). You can actually follow Keanu Reeves while he exterminates a whole Red Army Guard Corps in a single tracking shot. Both him and the director confirmed that he did 80-90% of his stunts.

I heard that in John Wick 2 he will use THE PENCIL. Can't wait.

P.S. Think what you want about Tom Cruise private life, but he is another actor who is doing most of his stunts. In the first "Jack Reacher" he did 100% of the stunt driving The director said that he event kept some mistakes in the final editing because they made the character "more human". Respect.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2318
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/20/2017 5:39:39 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 2319
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/20/2017 10:33:18 AM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Len Deighton thriller SS-GB has been made into a mini series that starts on BBC1 on Sunday!

Haven't looked forward to a TV program so much in ages!

#can'twait

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1gFzPFGN3LBfLH31vHsPPS8/alt-britain-how-ss-gb-turned-london-nazi


I'm quite excited to watching this series...looks like it will be in the States...
http://deadline.com/2016/06/bbc-weinsteins-reteam-for-ss-gb-miniseries-in-u-s-rights-deal-1201777653/

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2320
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/20/2017 5:03:55 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Len Deighton thriller SS-GB has been made into a mini series that starts on BBC1 on Sunday!

Haven't looked forward to a TV program so much in ages!

#can'twait

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1gFzPFGN3LBfLH31vHsPPS8/alt-britain-how-ss-gb-turned-london-nazi


I'm quite excited to watching this series...looks like it will be in the States...
http://deadline.com/2016/06/bbc-weinsteins-reteam-for-ss-gb-miniseries-in-u-s-rights-deal-1201777653/
warspite1

In which case I will go easy with the Spoilers


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 2321
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/20/2017 10:28:57 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2322
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/20/2017 11:25:34 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

Yes. Downton Abbey with Nazis.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2323
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/21/2017 6:13:41 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?
warspite1

No - apart from the fact its set in the UK its nothing like Downton Abbey in any way shape or form


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2324
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/21/2017 6:14:37 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

Yes. Downton Abbey with Nazis.
warspite1

No. Not Downton, but there's plenty of them evil narzeyes


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2325
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/21/2017 8:11:26 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

Yes. Downton Abbey with Nazis.
warspite1

No. Not Downton, but there's plenty of them evil narzeyes


But Edith's baby-daddy was murdered by Nazis! She has to have her revenge.
And the Dowager Countess needs to trade quips with Goering.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2326
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/21/2017 9:39:21 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Speaking of Downton Abbey, The Halcyon ended this week. No word yet on a second series but I hope so. The first series was a little uneven but there was enough to suggest it could be a classic if done right.

And.....

...the second series of Billions starts tonight - Huzzah!!

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/21/2017 9:40:00 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2327
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/21/2017 9:39:35 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Double post.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/21/2017 9:40:28 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2328
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/23/2017 5:22:46 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Watched the first episode of the re-make of Roots last night. I was very impressed with this very classy production - although was harrowing to watch.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/23/2017 5:44:18 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2329
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/24/2017 8:05:19 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Spoiler Alert

Watched the second part of Roots - this is a real quality production. Just one problem - how dare they kill Fiddler!!!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2330
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/24/2017 9:34:42 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRoQfD5demw

#hopefullyanotherdisneyclassic




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/24/2017 9:36:18 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2331
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/24/2017 10:11:04 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

Yes. Downton Abbey with Nazis.
warspite1

No. Not Downton, but there's plenty of them evil narzeyes


But Edith's baby-daddy was murdered by Nazis! She has to have her revenge.
And the Dowager Countess needs to trade quips with Goering.


Agreed! And, as this video shows, the crossover between Downton Abbey and Breaking Bad could be an extraordinary show!

https://vimeo.com/117672810

Imagine a Downton/SS-GB.

ETA: Always get a chuckle from Lord Grantham proclaiming how Downton will be "Kicking it with mad bitches and Benjamins."



_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2332
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/25/2017 10:16:45 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of SS-GB yesterday

Can't wait for episode 2.


Don't know a thing about the series, but really enjoyed Downton Abbey. Is this anything like that?

Yes. Downton Abbey with Nazis.
warspite1

No. Not Downton, but there's plenty of them evil narzeyes


But Edith's baby-daddy was murdered by Nazis! She has to have her revenge.
And the Dowager Countess needs to trade quips with Goering.


Agreed! And, as this video shows, the crossover between Downton Abbey and Breaking Bad could be an extraordinary show!

https://vimeo.com/117672810

Imagine a Downton/SS-GB.

ETA: Always get a chuckle from Lord Grantham proclaiming how Downton will be "Kicking it with mad bitches and Benjamins."



+1 Lady Mary should have been there too.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2333
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/25/2017 11:27:06 AM   
durangokid


Posts: 146
Joined: 12/22/2015
Status: offline
Foyle's War. A first class series about a detective in WWII. Gets an 8.4 on IMDB and well worth it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310455/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2334
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/25/2017 12:03:02 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: durangokid

Foyle's War. A first class series about a detective in WWII. Gets an 8.4 on IMDB and well worth it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310455/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
warspite1

+1

Wonderful series

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to durangokid)
Post #: 2335
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/27/2017 5:12:03 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Watched Episode II of SS-GB. It is a little slow so far - but signs that things are picking up. However, even at its current pace, this is a superb production. It really is depressing, the thought that we have lost the war .

Equally it makes you realise the terrible conflict that faced those in the occupied countries. Do you collaborate and make the best of the situation, or do you join the resistance? Or do you try and walk a middle line and try to stay alive and do the best for your family, but not openly help the Germans - knowing always that one day that policy may come back to bite you on the bum.....

#thoughtprovokingstuff

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2336
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/28/2017 5:59:45 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
I watched The Wannsee Conference (1984) as I was intrigued by the description of it in the Kolberg – The Movie thread; not least that it is supposedly “much much better” than the HBO/BBC version Conspiracy (2001) which was supposedly a “word for word i.e. plagiarism” copy of.

Given that I have seen the newer version what must be getting on for double figures, and rate it one of the best war films ever, I was really keen to see this. So here is my personal opinion of the two versions.

Firstly I think it’s fair to say that no one will ever know exactly what happened – one copy of the minutes survived the war, but a) it is likely that these were edited to an extent, and b) they do not tell us of the plots and sub plots, and the informal conversations held before, during and after the conference.

First thing to say though is that, given that the films depict a 90-minute conference attended by a handful of people (and therefore would be expected to be similar) the two versions are surprisingly – very surprisingly - different. A word for word copy the latter is most definitely not.

Secondly the content. I split this into two sections:

a) The depiction, and historical accuracy, of the attendees

First thing to say here is that – Heydrich aside - I know nothing of the personalities or the pecking order of the other participants. As such I am reliant on the script and of course recognise that artistic licence and a good ‘story’ may win over 100% accuracy. I know for example that Dr Klopfer was a thin man, whereas the HBO/BBC version present him as a massively overweight “strutting porcine p****” (as Heydrich described him).

The two versions went with a different approach and here I think the later version wins hands down. The German version concentrates really on just 5 or 6 of the 15 attendees. The others range from bit-part players to non-speakers – indeed at the end of the film a brief history of what happens to each is only presented for less than a dozen characters (every attendee gets a 'what happened to' at the end of the HBO/BBC version). Only Heydrich, Stuckhart, Lange, perhaps Muller and Eichmann are given real focus. Indeed I don’t believe the names of most of the others are even mentioned.

In the later version all characters are ‘introduced’. We know who they are and what they do. There is a degree (whether accurate or not) of character development. Erich Neumann is essentially depicted as a bumbling fool, but through him the film has a mechanism to allow us get to know who the attendees are.

In the latter version Dr Kritzinger is an important player in the discussions – in the earlier version he is little more than someone who finds it difficult to hear. Indeed there is only one character that is treated the same – and given the same importance – in both versions. Dr Stuckart is seen in both vehemently defending the Nuremburg laws, and it is clear in both, that he has enemies amongst the Nazi hierarchy who accuse him of being soft on the Jews. Heydrich needs him on side. In the German version he ends the film saying he will resign and go and fight at the front. There is nothing to say whether he does or not (although of course he does no such thing). In the HBO/BBC version he is ‘reminded’ by Heydrich in a quiet conversation to one side that Stuckart will need to make a choice and that he would hate to have the SS take an interest in him….. Did that happen? I don't know but its great drama - and something obviously got Stuckart on-side....

b) Historical accuracy of the Final Solution discussion

The conference was presented slightly differently, and again I don’t know which is closer to the truth – but as entertainment, there is only one winner here. The earlier version seemed to suggest that the Final Solution was pretty much a done deal and it was almost as if a few loose ends were being tidied up – Stuckart aside there was no real intense debate, no pangs of conscience as to what was being done. The latter version was presented more from the point of view of Heydrich having to get everyone on side at the conference – most were already of course - but there were major concerns particularly from Stuckart (the law), Meyer and Leibrandt (the problems in the east) and Neumann and Kritzinger (war production). As entertainment, there was so much more to the latter version.

One area where I thought the earlier version was better was in describing the problem of the exemptions. At least I understood what was being said. The HBO/BBC version rattled through this too quickly and left me non-plussed until about the 6th viewing!

Thirdly the acting. There were detail things such as the minute taker being female in the German version (and giving Heydrich someone to flirt with during the conference). Was that true? Don’t know and it doesn’t really matter one way or the other but at least it gave Heydrich something to do apart from sit at the table taking notes and not really exhibiting too much of anything. Branagh, a superior actor, was lucky that he was really given something to work with. He had that perfect air of calm that was rarely ruffled – but you know when it was, and he had some great one-liners to put people in their place – not to mention the quiet menace that was occasionally needed.

It was in this film that Stanley Tucci first came to my attention. As Eichmann he was brilliant – but again was given something to really get his not inconsiderable acting skills into. The German Eichmann was, by contrast, a bit of a non-entity.

Which version is more historically accurate? I have no idea. But as to which one is more entertaining, interesting and watchable there is no question in my mind.

End of the day it’s all about personal opinion and don’t get me wrong, although it sounds like I’ve slated the German version, I think to be clear, it is more a case of just how damn good the latter version is, rather than the earlier version being a bad production.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/28/2017 6:06:42 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2337
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/28/2017 8:32:27 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
To each his own. I rewatched the German version yesterday too, the clip on youtube: 4th or 5th time since the mid 90s, I think. But I don't plan to rewatch the British version: too much histrionics for my taste (ie not really convincing).

Besides, the Germans on the original version banged the table better

Said this, I encourage everyone to watch both.

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2338
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 2/28/2017 9:41:49 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I watched The Wannsee Conference (1984) as I was intrigued by the description of it in the Kolberg – The Movie thread; not least that it is supposedly “much much better” than the HBO/BBC version Conspiracy (2001) which was supposedly a “word for word i.e. plagiarism” copy of.


Given that "Conspiracy" is one of my favourite movies, I now must check this earlier version.

After reading "Run Silent, Run Deep" by Edward L. Beach Jr. I had to watch the movie with Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster. It was an OK movie, but the novel does seem written yesterday, while the movie is, sadly, dated.

Ah, well, time to whip out "Silent Hunter 4" with the "Trigger Maru" and the... "Run Silent, Run Deep" mods :)

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2339
RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? - 3/1/2017 2:13:37 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I watched The Wannsee Conference (1984) as I was intrigued by the description of it in the Kolberg – The Movie thread; not least that it is supposedly “much much better” than the HBO/BBC version Conspiracy (2001) which was supposedly a “word for word i.e. plagiarism” copy of.

Given that I have seen the newer version what must be getting on for double figures, and rate it one of the best war films ever, I was really keen to see this. So here is my personal opinion of the two versions.

Firstly I think it’s fair to say that no one will ever know exactly what happened – one copy of the minutes survived the war, but a) it is likely that these were edited to an extent, and b) they do not tell us of the plots and sub plots, and the informal conversations held before, during and after the conference.

First thing to say though is that, given that the films depict a 90-minute conference attended by a handful of people (and therefore would be expected to be similar) the two versions are surprisingly – very surprisingly - different. A word for word copy the latter is most definitely not.

Secondly the content. I split this into two sections:

a) The depiction, and historical accuracy, of the attendees

First thing to say here is that – Heydrich aside - I know nothing of the personalities or the pecking order of the other participants. As such I am reliant on the script and of course recognise that artistic licence and a good ‘story’ may win over 100% accuracy. I know for example that Dr Klopfer was a thin man, whereas the HBO/BBC version present him as a massively overweight “strutting porcine p****” (as Heydrich described him).

The two versions went with a different approach and here I think the later version wins hands down. The German version concentrates really on just 5 or 6 of the 15 attendees. The others range from bit-part players to non-speakers – indeed at the end of the film a brief history of what happens to each is only presented for less than a dozen characters (every attendee gets a 'what happened to' at the end of the HBO/BBC version). Only Heydrich, Stuckhart, Lange, perhaps Muller and Eichmann are given real focus. Indeed I don’t believe the names of most of the others are even mentioned.

In the later version all characters are ‘introduced’. We know who they are and what they do. There is a degree (whether accurate or not) of character development. Erich Neumann is essentially depicted as a bumbling fool, but through him the film has a mechanism to allow us get to know who the attendees are.

In the latter version Dr Kritzinger is an important player in the discussions – in the earlier version he is little more than someone who finds it difficult to hear. Indeed there is only one character that is treated the same – and given the same importance – in both versions. Dr Stuckart is seen in both vehemently defending the Nuremburg laws, and it is clear in both, that he has enemies amongst the Nazi hierarchy who accuse him of being soft on the Jews. Heydrich needs him on side. In the German version he ends the film saying he will resign and go and fight at the front. There is nothing to say whether he does or not (although of course he does no such thing). In the HBO/BBC version he is ‘reminded’ by Heydrich in a quiet conversation to one side that Stuckart will need to make a choice and that he would hate to have the SS take an interest in him….. Did that happen? I don't know but its great drama - and something obviously got Stuckart on-side....

b) Historical accuracy of the Final Solution discussion

The conference was presented slightly differently, and again I don’t know which is closer to the truth – but as entertainment, there is only one winner here. The earlier version seemed to suggest that the Final Solution was pretty much a done deal and it was almost as if a few loose ends were being tidied up – Stuckart aside there was no real intense debate, no pangs of conscience as to what was being done. The latter version was presented more from the point of view of Heydrich having to get everyone on side at the conference – most were already of course - but there were major concerns particularly from Stuckart (the law), Meyer and Leibrandt (the problems in the east) and Neumann and Kritzinger (war production). As entertainment, there was so much more to the latter version.

One area where I thought the earlier version was better was in describing the problem of the exemptions. At least I understood what was being said. The HBO/BBC version rattled through this too quickly and left me non-plussed until about the 6th viewing!

Thirdly the acting. There were detail things such as the minute taker being female in the German version (and giving Heydrich someone to flirt with during the conference). Was that true? Don’t know and it doesn’t really matter one way or the other but at least it gave Heydrich something to do apart from sit at the table taking notes and not really exhibiting too much of anything. Branagh, a superior actor, was lucky that he was really given something to work with. He had that perfect air of calm that was rarely ruffled – but you know when it was, and he had some great one-liners to put people in their place – not to mention the quiet menace that was occasionally needed.

It was in this film that Stanley Tucci first came to my attention. As Eichmann he was brilliant – but again was given something to really get his not inconsiderable acting skills into. The German Eichmann was, by contrast, a bit of a non-entity.

Which version is more historically accurate? I have no idea. But as to which one is more entertaining, interesting and watchable there is no question in my mind.

End of the day it’s all about personal opinion and don’t get me wrong, although it sounds like I’ve slated the German version, I think to be clear, it is more a case of just how damn good the latter version is, rather than the earlier version being a bad production.



Don't know a thing about the earlier version you comment on here, but I agree with you measure for measure about the excellence of Conspiracy. Branaugh's character is very well acted and so deeply disturbing. Extraordinary.


_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2340
Page:   <<   < prev  76 77 [78] 79 80   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: What program/film/documentary are you watching now? Page: <<   < prev  76 77 [78] 79 80   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.703