Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066

So the first engagement, they pretty clearly hadn't detected me and I got a couple of pretty close in shots off at the enemy tailpipes, but I launched them manually. I wish I'd let the AI keep control and seen how they handled the attack.

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The AI then handled the second attack on the F-16C's, and splashed them. By then I was being shot at so must have been detected.

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I'm guessing that it was my Cadet proficiency that led to the double shoot down of my aircraft, most likely?

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I was flying this mission with sensors off, hoping that my stealth technology would have saved the day. Should I have turned them on as soon as I was shot at?

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So this doesn't represent the original post very well, but I went through the trouble of making the pics so I figured I'd post them.

As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar? How effective the stealth technology is working? All my loadouts here are internal only, which I believe makes me much harder to detect?

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ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

As has already has been mentioned, the F-35 was not designed as a dogfighter, it can do it, but once heat seekers are flying everybody starts dying, including your ultra stealthy F-35's. My general rule fighting the F-35 against modern opponents is to launch everything at long/medium long range. After firing, switch on your radar to update your AMRAAM's through their datalink and slow down to loiter speed while your missiles are inbound. This will cause your missiles to loose the lease amount of energy correcting for (external) intermediate radar returns on their target and lets you keep the range to your opponent as long as possible. After your missiles have impacted, turn and burn.

This should give you a PK of about 0.5 per missile against those pesky F-15's. After this, its just a matter of rinse and repeat until they are all dead, without suffering a single loss yourself....

W.

Hey Willie2; if you got time; WIPT is ready; just put the house rules; but the aircratf On; what the AI gives you; upgrade the path of the planes; if not hellcats, corsairs but LIGHTINGS will overrun my Industry.

SALUT.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066

So the first engagement, they pretty clearly hadn't detected me and I got a couple of pretty close in shots off at the enemy tailpipes, but I launched them manually. I wish I'd let the AI keep control and seen how they handled the attack.

The AI then handled the second attack on the F-16C's, and splashed them. By then I was being shot at so must have been detected.

I'm guessing that it was my Cadet proficiency that led to the double shoot down of my aircraft, most likely?

I was flying this mission with sensors off, hoping that my stealth technology would have saved the day. Should I have turned them on as soon as I was shot at?

So this doesn't represent the original post very well, but I went through the trouble of making the pics so I figured I'd post them.

As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar? How effective the stealth technology is working? All my loadouts here are internal only, which I believe makes me much harder to detect?

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ORIGINAL: KungPao

quote:

ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066

So the first engagement, they pretty clearly hadn't detected me and I got a couple of pretty close in shots off at the enemy tailpipes, but I launched them manually. I wish I'd let the AI keep control and seen how they handled the attack.

The AI then handled the second attack on the F-16C's, and splashed them. By then I was being shot at so must have been detected.

I'm guessing that it was my Cadet proficiency that led to the double shoot down of my aircraft, most likely?

I was flying this mission with sensors off, hoping that my stealth technology would have saved the day. Should I have turned them on as soon as I was shot at?

So this doesn't represent the original post very well, but I went through the trouble of making the pics so I figured I'd post them.

As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar? How effective the stealth technology is working? All my loadouts here are internal only, which I believe makes me much harder to detect?

for my understanding this is how CMANO decide if it is a hit or a miss:

Final PH = Weapon Base PH- max{distance adjustment; target speed adjustment<1>} – [A/C Agility at current Altitude x Proficiency coefficient<2> x Weight adjustment coefficient x (1-damage%) x impact location coefficient] – Sea skimmer modifier

<1>. Since 1.13 target speed no longer plays a role in PoH calculation except for slow speed SPSAM
<2>. Ace = ? , Veteran = 1, Regular = 0.8, Cadet = 0.5

in your case, it is a close range engagement, AIM-120 still have a lot of energy so you don't see any decrease on it's PoH. F-35's base agility 4.5 is as good as a F-15/Su-27 but not as good as F-22, so please do not expect too much miracle.
Cadet proficiency and hit on tail are another two factors reduce the survivability.

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Final PH = Weapon Base PH- max{distance adjustment; target speed adjustment<1>} – [A/C Agility at current Altitude x Proficiency coefficient<2> x Weight adjustment coefficient x (1-damage%) x impact location coefficient] – Sea skimmer modifier

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ORIGINAL: Luckschaden

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ORIGINAL: KungPao

Final PH = Weapon Base PH- max{distance adjustment; target speed adjustment<1>} – [A/C Agility at current Altitude x Proficiency coefficient<2> x Weight adjustment coefficient x (1-damage%) x impact location coefficient] – Sea skimmer modifier

Is it really that "simple"? My understanding was that the engine does more realistic calculations under the hood but doesn't tell non PE users about it. I thought things like afterburners making an aircraft more visibile to IR missiles, for instance, would be modeled.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066
As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar?

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ORIGINAL: Dimitris

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ORIGINAL: Luckschaden

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ORIGINAL: KungPao

Final PH = Weapon Base PH- max{distance adjustment; target speed adjustment<1>} – [A/C Agility at current Altitude x Proficiency coefficient<2> x Weight adjustment coefficient x (1-damage%) x impact location coefficient] – Sea skimmer modifier

Is it really that "simple"? My understanding was that the engine does more realistic calculations under the hood but doesn't tell non PE users about it. I thought things like afterburners making an aircraft more visibile to IR missiles, for instance, would be modeled.

No, it's not that simple. Some people try too hard to shoehorn Command into their Excel spreadsheets instead of playing the goddamn game.

The sequence that KungPao describes is just the kinematic evasion step, which is the very, very last step in the entire engagement chain.

Before that you have the actual detections, both for the weapon carrier and the weapon itself, in pre-launch checks and afterwards in mid-course guidance (this is where the afterburner-IR stuff you mentioned comes into play). OECM is also effective here as it can break lock in mid-course (e.g. interrupt SARH illumination).

Then (if the weapon actually reaches the target) you have the endgame phase with the target then first attempting to use DECM, then expendable decoys / chaff / flares as appropriate.

Then, if nothing else works, you have the kinematic evasion.

And yes, there is a lot of stuff going on that the message log doesn't tell you about. You want to see e.g. the raw surface clutter calculations? It's enough of an info-waterfall as it is already.

Just play the game.

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ORIGINAL: Dimitris

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ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066
As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar?

Enemies come towards you and start shooting at you. Usually that's a pretty reliable indicator.

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ORIGINAL: rmunie0613

^^^ That really is the best "final sign".
You can tell a bit, when they start "coming towards you" as the first sign, when your contact reports, radar or otherwise show them suddenly speed up, turn, etc... works well for the ASW part also, in fact.
Just remember that there may also be enemies you are not seeing, as well- so the fact the one you do see has not changed course or speed does not mean you are entirely clear, either.

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edit: in further reading it never occured to me that the f35's are cadet setting? Does that make as big of a differnce when attempting shootdowns?

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ORIGINAL: Dimitris

And yes, there is a lot of stuff going on that the message log doesn't tell you about. You want to see e.g. the raw surface clutter calculations? It's enough of an info-waterfall as it is already.